Posted on 09/04/2008 8:18:10 AM PDT by goldstategop
And for the last several days, my jaw dropped to note the partisan pandering on both sides of the aisle, first as prominent liberal feminist women suddenly discover that a woman actually should stay home and raise a family, but second--and far more disappointing to me--as conservatives and Republicans suddenly endorse the fictional notions that 1) a woman can do it all and working women are good at raising a family--nix on both; and 2) it's not a problem that a man quit his job and subvert his life to raise the family in submission to the ambitions of his wife.
It's odd--and, frankly, jarring--to hear formerly traditional family values conservatives throw it all former principle out the window to adopt the lingua franca of what was once the exclusive domain of the Gloria Steinems and Betty Friedans of the world, to call "sexist," those who raise the issue of Sarah Palin's ability to mother her family and be a full-time working woman at the same time.
What is, since Friday, now "sexist" to these many conservatives-cum-lemmings, was yesterday "traditional family values."
(Excerpt) Read more at debbieschlussel.com ...
p> "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
If you are insinuating Todd (Iron Dog) Palin is neither, you are mistaken.
The Father is the head of the family, the Mother is the heart. Sarah is a wife and mother before she is Gov or VP. She is showing this through her words and actions.
It just shows what happens when what you preach comes back to bite you in the ass.....The ‘feminists” can’t stand having their own theme thrown at them from a *shudder* conservative...
You reap what you sow, liberals...Live with it...
“Mr. Mom” is an anti-male slur. I’m very surprised to see some conservatives embracing the idea that a father is just a sperm-donor and a paycheck, while a mother is the only parent whose involvement with the children matters for their welfare. Isn’t that the radical-feminist, welfare-baby-mama, turkey-baster, lesbian-partner line?
Seriously? What is wrong from a conservative viewpoint that a man stays home with the kids? How is that not being a strong husband and father? I think he looks like a GREAT father. Certainly better than 'father of the year' John Edwards.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
What these LIBs on the DBM are implying is very striking. They are implying that men cannot raise their children. They make it out like when Mom Palin goes to work, NOBODY is around to care for these children. Well, there is somebody around and not a NANNY like in the case of Soledad O’Brien. That somebody is DAD.
This “tradition” has probably only existed since the 1950s, at which time most women ceased working on the family farm or in the family business and adopted the new post-war ideal of the mother at home doing it all. Remember, prior to the 1950s, even mothers who were middle class usually had household help and also did not do chores (uch as laundry and ironing) themselves, but sent these things out or had their household help do them. This change - from the mother being a part of the economic unit, to her basically being responsible only for child-care and housework - ocurred in part as a response to economic changes after WWII (the demise of the family business or farm as an important economic unit) and partly to the rise of mechanization.
One of our problems is that we take a very short-sighted, ahistorical view of these things. Women have always been working members of the family, running businesses, farms, etc. and in fact a woman who was good at these things was praised and honored even back in the middle ages. Our entire society and economic structure has changed since then, of course, and even since the end of WWII, so it’s logical that what women do will also change.
I read something somewhere, about how although the bulk of us ladies are indeed best suited to motherhood, that doesn't negate the talents and destiny of those who are called to do more, such as Margaret Thatcher, Phyllis Schlafly, etc. The problem is when feminists push the lie that *any* woman can match *any* man in *any* field.
I always thought that conservatives were merely reacting to the denigration of traditional female roles by the feminist establishment?
Wow, I guess I'm enlightened a little bit.
We all have jobs to do in the family. I do the job of mother and father as there is no other in the home to do the job of father. A father doesn’t have to be the wage earner to be strong...it’s how he is there for the family as a whole.
If he is willing to be Mr. Mom for the time his wife is answering her call to duty for her country, more power to him! I respect him for being willing to do so, just as I respect Sarah Palin for being willing to answer her call to duty!
I certainly haven't heard anyone saying that "a woman's place is in the home" for a very long time. (except maybe some really fundamentalist christian types)
What I have heard conservatives saying is that children need a mom and a dad. Times have changed. The criticism of Palin is offensive, and I find Schlussel's criticism of my (and other conservatives) defense of Palin to be offensive as well.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
I am of the TRADITIONAL FAMILY VALUES not role reversal. Supermom is a myth. It kind of showed up with Birstol ... . Having said that, I will be voting FOR McPain with more nausea since the Obomination is WORSE. That is the ONLY reason why I must compromise this time around. I am sick and tired of this compromising. It's the LAST time I will do that for the GOP.
I will also be changing to an Independent. I no longer feel comfortable with this redefinition of family and roles. would have preferred that Sarah's kids be grown and responsible adults then I would have less conflict. As it stands now, Sarah is NO role model in this house because of that. For her it should be family first. The priority should be the kids when they are growing up. We don't teach role reversal at home.
Apparently not to Debbie.
This article is quite amazing. Is Debbie saying that a husband is nothing but a paycheck?
If he does not bring in a paycheck he is nothing?
Does not being a loving husband and involved father count for anything in her world?
For part of my childhood my mom worked outside the home while my dad struggled to start a small church. I was raised by my dad during those years and would not have traded that time for anything.
When I have kids my husband has said that he is going to be Mr. Mom. He works out of the home and it is currently not possible for me to do so this makes sense to us.
But apparently in Debbie's world if a man does not spend long hours away from his family then he is useless.
I find it amazing that people like her would denigrate men so.
A strong husband in my view is one that is self assured and self confident enough to still wear the pants yet encourage his wife to be all she can be. Todd Palin is far from the “Mr.Mom” said sneeringly. He is an accomplished strong man.
Kudos to him for being such a man.
I think anyone who wants to turn Todd Palin into Miss Priss is going to look like an idiot.
Good post, I hadn’t thought of that. When my daughter was born I couldn’t help but think of women in the past, pioneers and farmers who had so much more of than just housekeeping and diapering to do (and posting on FR, cough-cough)...it’s humbling.
The feminists' problem is that Sarah is not a liberal, baby killer.
Liberals are disingenuous. They'd have NO problem with her if she was PRO ABORTION and a fellow LIBERAL.
She’s right. Of course. It’s better to fess up to the breaking of the standard, in this instance, than to abandon the standard altogether. I view it as an Old Testament “Deborah” moment, where a woman comes forward bold enough to speak the truth that even John McCain can’t bring himself to articulate. Sarah Palin is a better man than the guy at the top of the ticket.
In her support, Phyllis Schaffley said that she was also a working mother and had a large family. To be honest, some people can do it, but others cannot. We need to be able to realize that as a fact. Besides, God called women in the Bible to do extraordinary things at times. It doesn’t address whether they are mothers or not. The Proverbs 31 woman is a very productive woman, with a family and husband.
As a school nurse, I’d say the ‘typical’ mother should not work outside the home until the children are reared. Sarah is anything but typical, so I’d not say too much. History will tell us just how she does one day. I know of some mothers who do both mothering and working very well. I don’t think it is fair to point to one or the other and say what the standard should be. We all are able to look at those who don’t do well and make assumptions that it would apply to all, but we are all not the same.
Hope you don't mind that I finished your thought for you. So you are saying that men are just a paycheck.
This is, interestingly enough, the same line that liberals push.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
It’s funny how unmarried, childless women - “liberal” or “conservative” - know exactly how every family should live. Somehow they’re the “experts,” and anyone who makes other decisions about their own family life is just ... wrong, you know.
“Women have always been working members of the family, running businesses, farms, etc. and in fact a woman who was good at these things was praised and honored even back in the middle ages.”
Whether you like it or not, even the Old Testament talks about a wife of noble character “considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.” (Prov.31:16)
Who believes that men must be the breadwinners? That is not a conservative principle. Children should have a mother and a father. How they divide up the work is their call, but certainly conservatives believe that having a parent care for kids is the best.
As I conservative, I really don't care. I am a strong supporter of the freedom of choice. People should be free to live in the manner that works for them without expecting anyone else to accommodate that lifestyle choice. I have always resented the so called social conservatives attempting to dictate morals.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
You make good points. What you may be missing is the actual pioneer aspects of Alaskan life. Moreover, whether we use Joan of Arc or Maggie Thatcher as a model, clearly strong women can lead, especially when the men of the nation have been wussified.
Women who want to have families and work can only do it successfully if their husbands get with the program, help out, are proud of her, not jealous of her success. Such men are still rare. But wonderful! An equal partnership makes the strongest and most delightful of marriages.
I watched last night, and it looked like Todd wore trousers and Sarah wore a skirt. He works oil and fishing rigs, fathered five kids with a very-together woman, and finishes snow-machine races with a broken arm and somebody is wondering if he’s a real man? Todd Palin is not threatened by his wife’s success.
I think a man who loves his children, as patience enough to raise them and makes the decision to be the main caregiver is strong beyond belief. I would love to have had a father like that. Love is never weak. And stereotypes are hurtful.
Yep, not only did Todd work hard to make good money for his family all those years, but Sarah obviously backed his taking many, many hours for his training and competitions.
I think everyone knows the truly strong man is the one who can be gentle and supportive with his family as well. He’s raising three daughters just as Sarah said her parents raised her: to believe a woman can walk through the door of any opportunity.
Betcha they move to Washington for 12 years, make history together, and then return to Alaska—while still in their early 50’s, and happy to return to their ‘regular’ lives.
So men can be strong only if women are weak? That is really denigrating to men.
If men wear the apron to let the wife do everything, who is masculine and who is feminine?
So cooking is not masculine? Unless, I guess you get paid for it. It is also apparently nothing as well sense you say that the wife does "everything"
In the old days, every one knew what a family was.
Really? Funny I don't see grandparents, spinster aunts and bachelor uncles living under the same roof anymore like in the old days. That was what family was. A whole bunch of people related by blood or marriage that took care of each other.
The times have changed and now both sides must pander to women voters.
Loaded word alert! I suppose would also say that tax cuts are pandering to taxpayers? If not then why not?
When Sarah's kids are grown - FINE! GO FOR IT! Or before the kids come - GO FOR IT! But when children come - it's children first over your ambition. Sarah has one as young as four months. That child needs Mom. Men and women are wired differently. God designed us differently. I don't find God's roles offensive.
Sarah is different than other situations. She is not divorced. She doesn't HAVE TO WORK. Other women DO have to work. A Dad is not the same as a WOMAN. Dad can't breast feed. Dad, hopefully is NOT effeminate. The roles are different. Children need to see that as examples and imitate it. It makes it tougher when Dad is Mr. Mom.
As I mentioned before, I will compromise one more time for the GOP but this is the LAST TIME. I will vote for McPain/Palin. I require traditional family values as part of the ticket in DEED not double talk. McPain is pushing LIBERAL FAMILY VALUES with pro life in thrown in there. I'm surprise to see “conservatives” endorsing LIBERAL FAMILY VALUES.
If you believe that switching roles, s great so be it! Vote with enthusiasm for it. Keep in mind that McPain suckered you again. He made YOU more LIBERAL with role reversal just to get the Hitlery vote and Independent vote. Once again, the GOP has swerved to the LEFT. You've been fooled.
Pro 31:10 ¶ Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price [is] far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise [is] good: her candle goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household [are] clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing [is] silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth [it]; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honour [are] her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue [is] the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband [also], and he praiseth her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Favour [is] deceitful, and beauty [is] vain: [but] a woman [that] feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
So after 40 years of listening to feminist BS being driven down our throats on a regular basis we finally concede, and say OK, have it your way, and you find that alarming?
Why the hell have you feminists been bitching about al this then for the past 40 years?
Conservatism is also about personal freedom and liberty (our libertarian strain). The father is the head of the household, that is true, but we also have the concept of the Proverbs 31 wife and mother. There is room within the traditional family structure for a husband and wife to work out their career goals and parental roles and responsibilities.
I've never experienced Dad staying home with the kids to be contrary to conservative views. If he is a bum and not looking out for the kids that is different. But this is hardly the case. Todd did not quite his normal job until Sarah became Governor. Then Todd's employment with BP, who Sarah was negotiating with for taxes and new projects, became a conflict of interest.
People reject that.
I don’t. I see being a Mom as an honorable occupation. Prior to kids - GO FOR IT! When kids are still growing up - it’s KIDS FIRST. After they are grown - then GO FOR IT but children must come first! There are too many kids out there that don’t have their parents around and it is a MESS.
As a private attorney, Ms. Obama has been the major breadwinner for the Obama household since the beginning.
She put her kids in day care.
Where is the outrage about this?
Yep.
It is even more interesting how they continually cry about how "feminist" degrade men and NEVER realize that they are doing the exact same thing.
Men are but paychecks. Loving husband and involved father are things that are irrelevant to them. And yet the rest of us realize that those are the most important things a man can be.
Debbie’s observation is right on...
It proves that politics trumps everything.
But there are exceptional people (and Sarah seems to be one of them) that don’t conform to stereotypes.
Perhaps it’s true that most mortal women can’t excel at both family and career, but as in everything else, there are exceptions, and Sarah may yet prove to be one of those exceptions.
One of the precious aspect of our country is that we’re not locked in stereotypes, we love the pioneering spirit and find inspiration in someone conquering new territory.
I heard you the first time.
Men are just paychecks.
Alan Abel hoaxes: Yetta Bronstein for President (1964)
Abel promoted a campaign for Mrs. Yetta Bronstein, a Jewish grandmother from the Bronx who wanted to become President of the United States. Her slogan was "Vote for Yetta and things will get betta!"
Note that UPI took the bait...
I disagree with Debbie. Many families through illness/injury or loss of a job find the roles of breadwinner changing hands. This appears to be Sarah’s decade to shine, and Todd loves her enough to support her. It takes more than a mom to raise a child, it takes a mother and a father. How they play their roles is their own business.
This one of the most stupid statements I have read lately. I will lump it together with all the other statements on this thread that try to equate a mother working with NO family values. I grew up in the 40s and 50s, graduating from HS in 1959. I am here to tell you that a great many girls got pregnant out of wedlock then, even with stay at home mothers.
Sarah Palin was a stay at home mom until she saw a chance to make life better for her children and run for town council. Her daughter is 17, in the 1950s most girls married between 16 and 20 and, yes, many of them were pregnant before they actually wed.
Whether Sarah had stayed home or not, Bristol would still be pregnant because for all intents and purposes she is an adult and will do what she wants, as do most people.
I will vote for McCain and I will do it proudly now that he has picked Sarah Palin for VP. All of you blue noses can go suck eggs as far as I am concerned.
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