Pro-Abortion Catholic Group Accuses Nation’s Bishops of Playing Politics With Abortion

Life News ^ | 9/4/08 | Steven Ertelt

[wagglebee]

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- A pro-abortion group claiming to be Catholic is accusing the nation’s Catholic bishops of playing politics by virtue of their condemnation of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s misrepresenting Catholic teaching on abortion and the beginning of human life. Catholics for Choice says the bishops were wrong to release a factsheet correcting her.

Jon O'Brien, president of the pro-abortion group told LifeNews.com, that it is Catholic leaders who are wrong on abortion, not Pelosi.

He accused the Catholic bishops of a “desire to place themselves at the center of the political discussion on abortion” and not representing Catholic teachings or Catholics.

"It is simply not true that the Roman Catholic Church's position on abortion has remained unchanged for 2,000 years,” O’Brien said, pointing to subtle changes in wording from Catholic thinkers in centuries past in their condemnation of abortion.

O’Brien contends: “There is a big difference in 'rejecting abortion' or stating that it is 'gravely wrong,' as leaders in the early church did and the current situation where the bishops regard it as an 'intrinsically evil act that can never be morally right.'“

The Catholics for Choice leader claimed a majority of Catholic voters and parishioners do not fall in line with the Catholic bishops and the Church’s position against abortion.

He pointed to an internal poll the group conducted claiming about 70 percent of Catholics say that the views of Catholic bishops are unimportant to them in deciding for whom to vote and a similarly large proportion, 73 percent, saying they believe Catholic politicians are under no religious obligation to vote on issues the way the bishops recommend.

But Father Frank Pavone, the director of Priests for Life, talked with LifeNews.com previously and said the poll doesn't distinguish between practicing Catholics and Catholics in name only.

"Previous research into Catholic voting patterns, such as that done by Deal Hudson and others, shows a predictably significant difference when one surveys those who actually practice their faith and attend Mass," Pavone said. "Such voters tend to vote pro-life, increasingly vote Republican, and do want the moral guidance that is offered by the bishops in such documents as Living the Gospel of Life."

On life and death decisions like abortion, Father Pavone said the Catholic pro-life teachings are absolute.

“But on matters that violate fundamental human rights (like abortion and terrorism), there can be no wiggle room, whether one is Catholic or not," he explains. “Common sense tells us to elect public servants who know the difference between serving the public and killing the public."

In the fact sheet, the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities showed the Church teaching through the years.

“Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law,” it said.

“From earliest times, Christians sharply distinguished themselves from surrounding pagan cultures by rejecting abortion and infanticide,” it added.

Regarding the origins of human life, the Catholic bishops affirmed that “knowledge of human embryology was very limited until recent times.

”They said Catholic teaching never changed on the morality of abortion even though scientists didn’t confirm that human life begins at conception until 1827."

[wagglebee]

“From earliest times, Christians sharply distinguished themselves from surrounding pagan cultures by rejecting abortion and infanticide,” it added.

And what the left practices truly is paganism.

[wagglebee]

Pro-Life/Catholic Ping

[wagglebee]

Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

[SumProVita]

STOP!!!!

There is no such thing as a pro-abortion CATHOLIC!

(Those who are pro-abortion are excommunicated.)

[Seruzawa]

Ummm. Afraid not. If you believe in legalized abortion then you aren’t a Catholic. You are something else. Go join one of those Churches. Same with women in the priesthood. If you believe in it you aren’t a Catholic.

Why is it that people demand that Churches change belief to accomodate individuals? Just join another Church. Millions of people do. It’s not hard.

[txzman]

HAHAHAHHHHAA. Too, too funny. Where do they buy THEIR bibles?

[Mr. Lucky]

That's fine in theory, but the long time parish priest of St. Anne's on Mackinac Island, Michigan, was the featured speaker at an Obama fundraiser last week, with his vocation prominently noted in the publicity mailers and news reports.

[bdeaner]

Lord, forgive them. They know not what they do.

[bdeaner]

Well, they need to stop taking communion, because they have excommunicated themselves by these actions. There is no ambiguity in the doctrine of the Church on this point. Taking a pro-abortion stance is unambiguously sinful and a very serious sin. To partake of communion in that state of sin is to bring upon one’s self even greater judgement. I hope God has mercy on them, and that, God willing, the Holy Spirit will guide them to the Truth.

[SumProVita]

If you are aware of this, YOU need to #1. contact your bishop. If this goes nowhere, #2. contact the CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH (VATICAN)... The congregation is now headed by Prefect Cardinal William Joseph Levada. Report clearly and respectfully. It may take some time, but something WILL be done.

;-)

[PGR88]

“pro abortion Catholic Group”

The words themselves seem familiar, yet when put together I can’t comprehend the meaning.....

[Scotswife]

It is the politicians who are playing politics with abortion and then pretending to be catholics.

The politicians will have to choose - keep their pro-death stance? Or reconcile with the Church.

Can’t have it both ways!

[Scotswife]

“You are something else. Go join one of those Churches.”

I hear the unification church is very “diverse”

[Lawgvr1955]

That's fine in theory, but the long time parish priest of St. Anne's on Mackinac Island, Michigan, was the featured speaker at an Obama fundraiser last week, with his vocation prominently noted in the publicity mailers and news reports.

Things like this really bother me as a Catholic. It sounds to me like his Bishop needs to start doing his job.

[Salvation]

Pro-Abortion Catholic group? That's an oxymoron in itself. No such theing. They are CINOs. Catholics In Name Only. They should also be denied Communion due to their defiance of Church teachings!

1:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches 1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm

97%

2:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches 2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm

96%

3:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches 2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3), URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm

96%

4:	CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

[Salvation]

Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC)

Promotes artificial contraceptive "rights," including abortion. Their focus is the "intersection of Catholic teaching and public policy." Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belong to this group in his Diocese. Member of Catholic Organizations for Renewal. They have been condemned by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB).

[redgolum]

And no offense to WB, but that is why I say that there is a schism in the Roman Catholic Church in the US.

If the Vatican really means what it says, at least half the bishops are excommunicated from the Pope right now. And I think that BXVI does mean what he says, and is moving to that.

[Secret Agent Man]

Many do know exactly what they do, and many encourage others to do it too.

[Secret Agent Man]

Ever notice that the left seems to be THE AUTHORITY as to WHO gets to comment on what issues?

When a group comments on a largely religious issue, they say it’s a political issue and they should shut up and stay in their church.

When it’s an issue that has a lot of politic behind it, they want to make it a ‘personal issue’ or ‘religious issue’.

Always wanting to define who gets to talk about what. Fact is political issues have moral components to them, and thus deserve to be talked about from religious viewpoints as well.

And we all have the 1st Amendment protecting our speech, and we can all talk about ANYTHING we doggone well want to. Liberal nutjobs.

[chris_bdba]

“claiming to be Catholic”

I believe this would be the key phrase as opposed to really being a Catholic!

[bdeaner]

Few knowingly choose evil for themselves. We are all susceptible to being deceived by the Father of Lies — confusing good for evil, and evil for good.

The Lord’s justice is uncompromised and to be greatly feared, and yet his mercy is infinite. That is a paradox we likely will not resolve anytime soon.

It surely cannot hurt to pray for their souls and the deliverance of their souls from error. We must pray ceaselessly for any scared little girl out there who chooses for herself to murder her unborn child, without fully comprehending that such an act is to sever herself from God and therefore from all that is just and good. Through the murder of the other, we murder our own souls. Only Christ can heal that mortal wound.

[Secret Agent Man]

Abortion isn’t any different from any other sin. It does not matter whether the person ‘fully realizes’ all aspects of what sin does or not. The criminal who consciously murders someone without reflecting on the full gravity of the situation is no different than the one that does and does it anyways. The ultimate result in both cases is that both sins separate them from God whether or not they’ve contemplated all the angles of what they are doing or not.

But I do agree that we are to pray for those who are under the control of Satan, that God will save them and they will recognize it and accept it.

[Secret Agent Man]

And I disagree with you about few knowlingly choose evil. People do things all the time they know are wrong, and do not care. Little things, big things, little sins, big sins. Sin separates us from God, big or small.

People knowingly rebel against their parents. They know that doing (or not doing) something will anger parents. People steal. They know stealing things are wrong and do it anyways. People lie all the time, and they know lying is wrong. All of these are sins. People’s prideful ways get them in trouble all the time. People who never admit they are wrong, and will argue with you just for the sake of causing trouble. People thinking they can get away with deceitful living (John Edwards, ex). People cheating on their spouses. Knowing it is wrong, doing it anyways.

I agree that the devil may whisper in someone’s ear a rationalization for it, or whatever, but that person’s heart (and read about the wickedness that exists in our hearts) responds to the tempter’s lie. Many people do not even need any goading by the devil to commit sins, their own heart’s desires are plenty strong enough on their own.

[Titus-Maximus]

When you first heard about the practice of abortion - how did you feel? Do you remember, the confusion, the distress, then the question? How could people do it? A truly bizarre practice. Paganistic, uncivilized, atavistic, animalistic... A violation of Natural Law.

It could never be right.

[bdeaner]

If it wasn’t knowingly committed, it wouldn’t be a sin, you’re right. So let me clarify: few would knowingly choose evil if they truly understood the cost of that sin. One can commit a sin knowingly and yet fail to fully comprehend at the moment (rather than rationalize it away) that one has, in effect, murdered one’s own soul. By definition, sin is an act contrary to reason, truth and right conscience. It is to live in untruth.

Therefore, the seed of sin, at its foundation, is loss of faith. A failure to believe, fundamentally, the eternal consequences of error — one’s free choice to disobey the Lord’s command. The loss of faith is not in itself the sin; disobedience is the sin. But loss of faith is the seed of disobedience, and therefore of sin.

We need to pray ceaselessly for those in sin so that they may be restored to faith, to the recognition of Truth, and therefore, to understood the the only true freedom, which is found through obedience to the Lord. Then perhaps there is also hope for us sinners too.

There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven: and that is the refusal to ask for forgiveness. What a wonder, God’s infinite mercy. And what a paradox that it co-exists, without contradiction, the Lord’s infinite justice. This is something the human mind cannot ever truly comprehend with a mortal mind. And it is the reason why we, paradoxically, must root out all evil with great clarity and expediency, while at the same time praying ceaselessly that the Lord will have mercy upon those who commit evil. Otherwise, we bring condemnation on ourselves, for we all sin. “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” That is what Christ taught us to pray to the Father. Only two people were ever without sin, and you know who they are.

God bless.

[8mmMauser]

Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm

[Secret Agent Man]

I do not believe that. Our sin natures are inherently drawn towards sin. It makes no difference if you know it’s wrong or not. Paul explains the daily struggle clearly: I do not do what I want to do, and I do the things I hate. ( Romans 7:15)

To say that Paul (chief of sinners by his own writing) did not understand the gravity of his personal sin, yet admitted he still knowingly sinned, I believe, is proof of all of mankind, saved or not, when it comes to the power of sin in every person’s life.

Notice Paul doesn’t talk about whether he sat there and thought about all the consequences of it or not. Sin is sin. It makes no difference in the big picture - all sin separates from God. It may make a difference in terms of temporal and the degree of severity of eternal punishment, but THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. All sin. Big, small, thought about, or done impulsively. If you cannot keep the law perfectly, it as if you have not kept any of it. And none of us can. There are no asterisks listed saying “well only really big sins you think about and still do cause eternal separation”.

Even with Jesus and the Holy Spirit living within us, making us the new man, the old man still exists. And must constantly be fought, all the time. Paul still sinned with the Holy Spirit in him. Peter still sinned with the Holy Spirit in him.

I do not argue that it is not rational to sin given the consequences. That does not mean that a thinking person, even knowing this, will not choose to commit sins. That is how people are. We are sinful beings. Christians are both sinner and saint at the same time, engaged in a daily struggle against our old sin nature every waking moment.

[PAR]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2075504/posts

[bdeaner]

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "I do not believe that." The "that" is unclear here.

But I disagree with your statement that "It makes no difference if you know it's wrong or not." It is a good thing to refer to St. Paul's letters, so I suggest taking a look at Hebrews 2:2. There, sin is identified as disobedience. Or see Acts 7:53, which suggests, in conjunction with the Hebrews passage, that sin is a transgression in the form of disobedience when one has recieved "the law as ordained by angels." If one has not recieved the law, or has not understanding of the law, a transgression does not have the same gravity as a transgression that is disobedience by one who has recieved the law.

Moral evil, according to Church teaching, requires a being who knows God and his law and who deliberately refuses to obey.

Strangely, I thought the above was exactly your point in a prior post, and I agree with you, and modified my statement accordingly. Now, you seem to have changed your mind, or else I am not following you.

I do agree that our natures are inherently drawn toward sin, but drawn toward sin in the sense that we are drawn toward error, to in essence fall for the lie. The Genesis story of the Garden is paradigmatic here. God's law is given, and so the transgression in the Garden is clearly disobedience. And the disobedience is predicated on believing a lie from the serpent, and therefore fundamentally is predicated on error, a failure to comprehend the Truth of one's sin and its implications. So, we have a transgression as a form of disobedience, as I have stated must be the case in sin, and also a failure to adhere to reason's revelation of Truth and the fall into error which upon which the disobedience is predicated. That's how I see it, and how I interpret Church teaching on sin, in according with Biblical revelation.

[kcvl]

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/about/bio/default.asp

born and raised in the Republic of Ireland, Mr. O’Brien’s initial involvement in reproductive rights was sparked by his reaction to the great injustices that women especially face as a result of the Catholic hierarchy’s influence over public policy in the country. He began his professional career with the Irish Family Planning Association

Before coming to CFC, Mr. O’Brien worked as program manager at the International Planned Parenthood Federation’s European Bureau in London

[kcvl]

teachings of their bishop on abortion. Jon O'Brien, president of Catholics for Choice, says he hopes the pope is listening.

The church's policy of abstinence before marriage and natural contraception has also drawn criticism from groups dealing with HIV and AIDS. O'Brien says the church's policies are inhibiting the fight against the epidemic.

[kcvl]

“If a woman decides after really thinking and examining her conscience that having an abortion is moral and the right choice for her at that particular time, she is in Catholic teaching entitled to do it. It doesn’t mean abortion is a good thing to do within the Catholic church.” O’Brien explained.

[kcvl]

Jon O’Brien argued that there is no scientific evidence demonstrating when a person becomes formed during pregnancy. Therefore, the question of when a fetus becomes a person can only be a matter of moral belief; and the law cannot, and should not be expected to, reflect every individual’s moral beliefs. O’Brien argued that abortion is necessary, and that during his twenty years working in reproductive healthcare he had seen that women take the abortion decision very seriously ‘and in good conscience’. He said abortion provision can sometimes represent compassion - for example in the case of rape victims, where a woman may feel relief and even happiness.

Jon O’Brien argued that while ideally men should be supportive of the decision, the ultimate right lay with women, whose bodily autonomy is paramount.

O’Brien continued on the theme of personhood by explaining that the Vatican has no definitive answer for where ‘life’ actually begins: therefore it should only be right that the moral decision to have an abortion lies with the mother.

******

06/01/2007

In a strongly worded sermon delivered on Thursday afternoon (31 May) at St. Mary’s Cathedral in Edinburgh, Cardinal Keith O’Brien describes the claims and assurances made at the time of the passing of the 1967 Abortion Act were no more than a “pack of lies” which amounted to “lies and misinformation masquerading as compassion and truth”. The Cardinal’s words come as the 40th anniversary of the act approaches and are timed to coincide with the Catholic Church’s “Day for Life” on May 31st, “Blessed is the fruit of your womb” is the theme for this year’s Day for Life.

http://tinyurl.com/6ea82m

[Secret Agent Man]

The “that” is that few would choose to sin if they knew the consequences. We all do know the consequences and we keep doing it anyway.

And it doesn’t make a difference IN THE BIG PICTURE if we know we are sinning or not. Sin is sin. If we break the law and don’t know it, the law is still broken. Those who have never heard God’s word sin because they go against their own conscience. Nobody is without excuse. If it were not so the bible would not be able to say “ALL HAVE SINNED” because if it’s only sin if you know the law, there are a lot of people who have not had God’s Word given to them and therefore, by your logic, are not capable of sinning?

Rational bible believing people continue to sin even after having an understanding of the seriousness of sin. It is reality. we are not able to live perfectly and we fail every day. We sin even when we make attempts NOT to sin.

And in this day and age, to somehow say that people do not think abortion is evil or immoral, and are somehow being tricked into believing it is not evil, is a huge stretch. Being scared about your situation doesn’t mean you can’t tell right from wrong, or make you unaccountable for commiting a sinful act.

[bdeaner]

I am certainly not excusing anyone for sin, nor did I intend to do so in any of my prior posts.

What I was remarking upon earlier, and I am still not sure that you understand my point, is the need to pray for sinners for their deliverance from error — to pray for God’s mercy. Because faith is a gift; we only have faith because of grace. And sin is the result of a loss of faith. So, we must pray that these people will have their faith restored, and seek reconciliation for their sins. That to me is a way of living out Christ’s mercy for sinners. He lived among the sinners, and said, “What you do unto the least of my brothers, you do unto me.” This is my point, and nothing more.

Of course, we are all sinners, as you said. Thank the Lord for his mercy. By his grace, we can be forgiven because we have faith that reconciliation is possible. Not all have this faith anymore, and there but for the grace of God go I. May I never fall prey to such error, and if so, may God have mercy on my soul.

God bless.

[Secret Agent Man]

Sin occurs because we all have a sin nature in us.

I just disagree with your wording that the only reason sin occurs is because of a loss of faith. That is not true.

For those that don’t know God as Savior and Lord, they do not have ANY faith at all. Their sin nature reigns supreme, they never had any faith to lose. They are under the power of Satan and they are just doing what comes naturally as fallen, sinful human beings.

I guess I do not look at it as a loss of faith that allows a Christian to sin. I would say that temptation and weakness come together and the person is overcome by sin. I don’ necessarily believe that that must mean they have lost faith, or their faith has decreased.

Part of the problem is that I do not view ‘faith’ and grace as things that are infused into me, and actually turn me into a better person. It is not an injection of grace. I am more of an ‘imputated’ grace view rather than an ‘infused’ view.

But I think the other point you make, I agree with, that we need to pray for the unsaved to be saved, and freed from under Satan’s control. So that they are able to respond to God’s gift of forgiveness and being able to live without having to ‘earn’ forgiveness.