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It's not red state vs blue state—It's red county vs blue county (small town America)
Vanity | Nov. 16, 2004 | Vanity

Posted on 09/06/2008 7:23:52 AM PDT by StAntKnee

Map of the US after the 2004 presidential election shows where the winning votes have to come from. Victory comes from counties and small towns. McCain and Palin have to carry them all plus enough from the cities to reach the tipping point.

THAT is why Palin's small-town roots are spot-on.

Sorry, no USA Today link accepted but maybe below will help. Prepare to see red.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2004election; 2008; bushvskerry; culturewars; issues; mccainpalin; ruralvote; smalltown

1 posted on 09/06/2008 7:23:52 AM PDT by StAntKnee
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To: StAntKnee
Every county with mountains and every county with plains and a cow. That's the GOP target!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 09/06/2008 7:25:46 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: StAntKnee

I know how much rural and small town voters despise the largest city in my state. They see their tax dollars being extracted to subsidize the pathologies of a destructive central city culture and its failing schools and they resent it.

To make matters worse, the state capitol is the most liberal city in the nation. Small town voters have to work hard to even get their concerns heard, let alone acted on. They are mostly seen as cash cows by their elected representatives.


3 posted on 09/06/2008 7:28:18 AM PDT by chickadee
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To: chickadee

An astute student of history and human nature, Thomas Jefferson, predicted what we see happening here in America. As ambassador in France, he witnessed the run up to the FIRST socialist/communist revolution there. He penned the following observations concerning what would happen HERE should that socialism come to the United States. He CORRECTLY predicted that we would become an increasingly contentious and litigious people as we shouldered one another out of the way to get OURS from the public trough and the trough would soon be empty.

He also knew where the bulk of the problem would originate.

That whirring noise you may hear coming from that mountain in Charlottesville, Virginia is Mr. Jefferson getting up to around 3600 RPM.

(A 6 minute video with this information may be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLu49pq3bI)

“The mobs of the great cities add just so much to the support of pure government as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigor. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution.” —Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIX, 1782. ME 2:230

“I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another in large cities as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe.” —Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Papers 12:442

“I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts; but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere; and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue and freedom, would be my choice.” —Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800. ME 10:173

“Our cities... exhibit specimens of London only; our country is a different nation.” —Thomas Jefferson to Andre de Daschkoff, 1809. ME 12:304

“Everyone, by his property or by his satisfactory situation, is interested in the support of law and order. And such men may safely and advantageously reserve to themselves a wholesome control over their public affairs and a degree of freedom which, in the hands of the canaille of the cities of Europe, would be instantly perverted to the demolition and destruction of everything public and private.” —Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:401

“An insurrection... of science, talents, and courage, against rank and birth... has failed in its first effort, because the mobs of the cities, the instrument used for its accomplishment, debased by ignorance, poverty, and vice, could not be restrained to rational action. But the world will recover from the panic of this first catastrophe.” —Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:402

“I fear nothing for our liberty from the assaults of force; but I have seen and felt much, and fear more from English books, English prejudices, English manners, and the apes, the dupes, and designs among our professional crafts. When I look around me for security against these seductions, I find it in the wide spread of our agricultural citizens, in their unsophisticated minds, their independence and their power, if called on, to crush the Humists of our cities, and to maintain the principles which severed us from England.” —Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, 1814. ME 14:120


4 posted on 09/06/2008 7:30:10 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (o=)
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To: StAntKnee

An astute student of history and human nature, Thomas Jefferson, predicted what we see happening here in America. As ambassador in France, he witnessed the run up to the FIRST socialist/communist revolution there. He penned the following observations concerning what would happen HERE should that socialism come to the United States. He CORRECTLY predicted that we would become an increasingly contentious and litigious people as we shouldered one another out of the way to get OURS from the public trough and the trough would soon be empty.

He also knew where the bulk of the problem would originate.

That whirring noise you may hear coming from that mountain in Charlottesville, Virginia is Mr. Jefferson getting up to around 3600 RPM.

(A 6 minute video with this information may be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLu49pq3bI)

“The mobs of the great cities add just so much to the support of pure government as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigor. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution.” —Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIX, 1782. ME 2:230

“I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another in large cities as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe.” —Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Papers 12:442

“I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts; but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere; and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue and freedom, would be my choice.” —Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800. ME 10:173

“Our cities... exhibit specimens of London only; our country is a different nation.” —Thomas Jefferson to Andre de Daschkoff, 1809. ME 12:304

“Everyone, by his property or by his satisfactory situation, is interested in the support of law and order. And such men may safely and advantageously reserve to themselves a wholesome control over their public affairs and a degree of freedom which, in the hands of the canaille of the cities of Europe, would be instantly perverted to the demolition and destruction of everything public and private.” —Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:401

“An insurrection... of science, talents, and courage, against rank and birth... has failed in its first effort, because the mobs of the cities, the instrument used for its accomplishment, debased by ignorance, poverty, and vice, could not be restrained to rational action. But the world will recover from the panic of this first catastrophe.” —Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:402

“I fear nothing for our liberty from the assaults of force; but I have seen and felt much, and fear more from English books, English prejudices, English manners, and the apes, the dupes, and designs among our professional crafts. When I look around me for security against these seductions, I find it in the wide spread of our agricultural citizens, in their unsophisticated minds, their independence and their power, if called on, to crush the Humists of our cities, and to maintain the principles which severed us from England.” —Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, 1814. ME 14:120


5 posted on 09/06/2008 7:31:05 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (o=)
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To: chickadee

The blues constantly put down the rurals and small towns. Hollywood and the MSM have constantly ignored or ridiculed these people. Yes, you’re right, when it’s time to ante up to subsidize their lazy-ass, immoral constituencies, there’s hypocrites like Cougar Mellencamp trying to tell us all “he cares.”


6 posted on 09/06/2008 7:39:14 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat
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To: StAntKnee

Upstate NY poll
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With both conventions now over, who are you voting for?

McCain-Palin
83%

Obama-Biden
11%

Won’t Vote
5%

votes: 2376

http://www.wben.com


7 posted on 09/06/2008 7:45:46 AM PDT by Peelod
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To: StAntKnee

As others have also pointed out, it’s more like red counties against blue city, hayna? Or no?


8 posted on 09/06/2008 7:46:09 AM PDT by flowerplough (Let the market work, ...and then just tax the heck out of people at the end and just redistribute it)
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To: chickadee

“I know how much rural and small town voters despise the largest city in my state. They see their tax dollars being extracted to subsidize the pathologies of a destructive central city culture and its failing schools and they resent it.

To make matters worse, the state capitol is the most liberal city in the nation. Small town voters have to work hard to even get their concerns heard, let alone acted on. They are mostly seen as cash cows by their elected representatives.”

You just described California and Oregon for sure....and probably every other state.


9 posted on 09/06/2008 8:04:03 AM PDT by AuntB ( "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: flowerplough
"As others have also pointed out, it’s more like red counties against blue city, hayna? Or no?"

In my opinion, and from my observation, those who own a home and property take far better care of it as opposed to those who only rent. Many renters don't keep up property and certainly won't care to defend it, all basically because it's not theirs and they are not invested in it.

This can be a comparison to big city dwellers piled on top of each other and not owning their property (trending to be "blue") as compared to those who own and have invested in their property such as suburbs and small towns (trending to be "red") and all within the same state...such as NY or MI or VA (NOVA 'blue' / lower VA 'redder').

10 posted on 09/06/2008 8:04:32 AM PDT by KriegerGeist (Lifetime member of the "Christian-Radical-Right-Wing-Kook-Factor")
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To: Dick Bachert

““I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts; but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere; and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue and freedom, would be my choice.” —Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800. ME 10:173”

Great list of quotes, Dick.


11 posted on 09/06/2008 8:06:45 AM PDT by AuntB ( "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Dick Bachert
So, did Jefferson have a solution, or did he only describe the problem?

If the Russians keep on the path they are now on, there may be no big cities in the coming decades. Although for the most part, there aren't any militarily or economically important targets there, with a few exceptions Port cities for example, along with a few important military facilities in central cities. But for the most part military bases and facilities are in "small cities", suburbs and rural areas. The one I live by extends over large chunks of 2 counties.

12 posted on 09/06/2008 8:08:00 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: AuntB
You just described California and Oregon for sure....and probably every other state.


I am so sorry to hear that. Our state is one of the swing states and we Repubs have to sit helplessly by as the Democrat machine allows ACORN et al to register phony voters for the coming election. We have seen the past two presidential elections stolen by the Dem machine and it is sickening. The Dems in the state government have blocked all attempts at requiring photo id to vote.

More Milwaukee Voter Fraud...

You can be sure that any "investigation" will be delayed until after the November elections and that the rolls won't be cleaned up prior to that either.
13 posted on 09/06/2008 8:14:37 AM PDT by chickadee
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To: StAntKnee; goldstategop; chickadee
I see in maps that "red" by far covers more territory/geography than "blue", even within certain states (meaning the whole state is not colored red).

However, the density of the "blue" areas such as NY City within NY state or Northern VA compared to the rest of the Virginia or Chicago within Illinois...

So, my question is: can the less densely populated "red" areas within these states out-vote the more densely populated urban "blue" areas to put the rest of the state as a win in the "red" column??

14 posted on 09/06/2008 8:17:33 AM PDT by KriegerGeist (Lifetime member of the "Christian-Radical-Right-Wing-Kook-Factor")
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To: Geist Krieger

You’re exactly right about density. That’s why McPalin must win a strong majority of rural America and swing enough votes from the blue lagoons to reach the tipping point.

Can be done. Bush vs Gore? Bush vs Kerry? Nail-biters both?

Sarah cements the small-town vote much better than McCain. There’s that stupid power of personal connection. And he has to win enough segments in urban areas to neutralize BHO’s pull in his easily identified segments.

I think.


15 posted on 09/06/2008 8:30:15 AM PDT by StAntKnee (Jesse Jackson threatened it on a hot mic, but Sarah Palin actually did it)
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To: Geist Krieger
So, my question is: can the less densely populated "red" areas within these states out-vote the more densely populated urban "blue" areas to put the rest of the state as a win in the "red" column??


I believe they could if the voting process was cleaned up. But most big cities are in the hands of Democrat machines and they are the ones committing the fraud to try to outvote the non-urban areas.
16 posted on 09/06/2008 8:32:10 AM PDT by chickadee
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To: chickadee

“Our state is one of the swing states and we Repubs have to sit helplessly by as the Democrat machine allows ACORN et al to register phony voters for the coming election....”

Ya know..that sort of thing only goes on as long as We the People let it...:)


17 posted on 09/06/2008 8:34:10 AM PDT by mo
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To: mo

There is nothing that can be done. The only prosecutions for corruption and voter fraud came from the feds because President Bush was kind enough to sic them on the miscreants.

There is no way to get the big cities to stop it. They want it because it keeps Democrats in office. Dem voters in big cities want it because they want more and more of everyone else’s income.

If you have a suggestion on how to stop it, I am listening.


18 posted on 09/06/2008 8:40:56 AM PDT by chickadee
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To: chickadee

Chick, what state are you in? Your “about” page doesn’t list one, and your description sounds like a lot of states in this country!


19 posted on 09/06/2008 8:43:06 AM PDT by hunter112 (John McCain might just have made a decision that has earned him my vote with Sarah Palin.)
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To: hunter112

I am in Wisconsin. Sounds like I am not alone in bewailing the fate of my state:)


20 posted on 09/06/2008 8:44:49 AM PDT by chickadee
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To: Geist Krieger
So, my question is: can the less densely populated "red" areas within these states out-vote the more densely populated urban "blue" areas to put the rest of the state as a win in the "red" column??

-------------------------------------------------------------

In some states it cannot be done: IL, NY, CA. The densely populated cesspools of criminals, public assistance recipients, degenerates and illegal aliens overwhelm the exurban and rural populations.

21 posted on 09/06/2008 8:49:20 AM PDT by stillonaroll (McCain/Palin 2008!)
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To: chickadee
"I believe they could if the voting process was cleaned up. But most big cities are in the hands of Democrat machines and they are the ones committing the fraud to try to outvote the non-urban areas."

Exactly! That is why during the 2000, 2004, 2006 elections I was on here ranting and raving about vote/voter reform! From "proper-legal-valid voter registration, then to registered voters showing their valid-legal-proper IDs, to HARD-COPY optical-scanned ballots (don't trust the electronic machines with ether-votes on a hard drive only), to bi-party-monitored voting/polling places!

I even went all crazy (over-the-top perhaps) on a "standardized" hard-copy ballot type that cannot in anyway be "misinterpreted" (no chads or even punch holes). A ballot that has a circle next to a candidate or issue to be filled in like a bingo card with indelible ink pen and then can be tabulated by optical scanner. Recounts are possible by hand counting hard-copy ballots if necessary.

I even advocated having an attached numeric receipt that detaches from the ballot to give to the voter. That is a stretch, but a voter could check his/her number against a roster to make sure they were not "disenfranchised" Sort of like a ticket stub to redeem your cleaning or item. It's still would be anonymous.

I know vote fraud cannot be completely wiped out, but I'm all for fighting it vigorously and with all possible means. Voting confidence does mean a lot to those taking the time to do it. If a person's ballot looks to them solid, sound and assured to count, then it means more. We heard nightmare stories from Wisconsin, Michigan Missouri, Pennsylvania and who can forget Florida and the whole Dakota Indian reservation thing? I believe that many of those past horror stories can be remedied.

22 posted on 09/06/2008 9:08:34 AM PDT by KriegerGeist (Lifetime member of the "Christian-Radical-Right-Wing-Kook-Factor")
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To: AuntB

Thanks.

I was stationed in the Washington area with the Air Force but never made the trip to Monticello. My wife and I corrected that oversight a few years ago. In the intervening years I had become deeply concerned with the course America was taking.

After visiting the beautiful home in which Mr. Jefferson – due to his service to the nation he helped create – spent but a few years, we made our way to the small family cemetery down the hill from the house. We were the only ones there and as we approached, I felt myself overcome with emotion. Not certain where that emotion would take me, I asked my wife to go on to the car.

As I stood reading the modest inscription on his headstone, I wept. For Mr. Jefferson. For ALL of the 56.

And for America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIo8FJJMps8


23 posted on 09/06/2008 9:09:47 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (o=)
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To: All
It's common sense versus lunacy.

Watch this soldier's video address to Obama.

24 posted on 09/06/2008 9:11:10 AM PDT by fightinJAG (Rush was right when he said: "You NEVER win by losing.")
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To: StAntKnee

Neither Obama or McCain will win a single county in Louisiana.


25 posted on 09/06/2008 9:13:13 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Dick Bachert

My favorite Jefferson quote. The man clearly saw what we faced more than once.

In a prophetic letter decades earlier ,
President Thomas Jefferson expressed
the fears of many of his contemporaries over conflicts
of states’ rights, westward settlement, federalism and slavery.

“This momentous question,
like a fire bell in the night,
awakened and filled one with terror,
I considered it at once as the knell of the Union.
It is hushed indeed for the moment.
but this is a reprieve only,
not a final sentence . . .
we have the wolf by the ears
and we can neither hold him
nor safely let him go.”


26 posted on 09/06/2008 9:16:58 AM PDT by AuntB ( "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: AuntB

I have come to have more respect for JFK and believe I know that he was killed because he was on the verge of alerting the country to powerful forces working against us. While certainly no Jefferson, Kennedy did pay a unique tribute to him at a gathering of his entire cabinet and some of his brighter policy advisors in the White House.

I paraphrase but it went something like “There hasn’t been so much brain power assembled in this room since Mr. Jefferson dined here alone.”

Roger that.


27 posted on 09/06/2008 9:22:48 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (o=)
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To: El Gato

Mr. Jefferson DID offer solutions:

“...the natural tendency of things is for government to gain
ground and for liberty to yield...let no more be heard of
confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”

“A strict observance of the written laws is doubtlessly one of
the highest duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest.
The law of necessity, of self preservation, of saving our country
when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by
a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose law
itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are
enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the
means.”

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.”


28 posted on 09/06/2008 9:27:36 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (o=)
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To: StAntKnee

In looking at the 2004 map where the concentrations of blue are I think are Obama weak areas in 2008 -

Florida southeast - Boca/West Palm could go McCain over handling of Israel and Hillary; Florida will go red regardless.

Southwest Texas (even though Texas will go red) can go red over immigration. say what you want, McCain is the lesser of two evils on this issue;

I think Louisiana goes red based on Hurrricane Gustav - I feel people see how Jindal handled situation vs. what’s her name, I think that gives Jindal reverse coattails, if you know what I mean;

I also think Michigan will go red based on Romney support and because I think Obama’s tax plan is sinking in on blue collar types as not what they want, plus I think McCain Palin resonates with blue collar workers vs. two career politicians.

OK, this is my unicorn flying over the rainbow moment - I also think NY and Pennsylvania will go red because of the reasons stated above - the rural folk are pissed about being controlled by a small group of folks concentrated in urban areas. I believe we are going to see record turnout in these areas.

Lastly, I truly believe there are more vocal supporters of Obama then actual supporters. People I talk to are afraid of not saying they like Obama because they are afraid of being labelled a racist. I’ve seen it happen personally where a college kid asked my 85 year old father why he was wearing a McCain pin - was he afraid of giving a black man power, to which my father responded no he was afraid to give a liberal power. LOL, I love my old man!!

Anyway, I am feeling more and more confident that we will be seeing the makings of a BIG win in November. If Obama is spending so much time in Pennsylvania lately, things are going south for the Dums.


29 posted on 09/06/2008 9:49:37 AM PDT by MCOAvalanche
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To: chickadee

I agree...up to a point...but here’s an interesting link...your local US attorney should have jurisdiction ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/13/AR2007051301106.html


30 posted on 09/06/2008 11:22:29 AM PDT by mo
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To: MCOAvalanche

Good analysis.

Hoping you’re right.

THinking you are.


31 posted on 09/06/2008 6:30:17 PM PDT by StAntKnee (Jesse Jackson threatened it on a hot mic, but Sarah Palin actually did it)
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