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Georgia on My Mind (No, not that Georgia)
New York Times ^ | 09-07-08 | Thomas Friedman

Posted on 09/08/2008 4:28:35 AM PDT by ottbmare

We’re going to spend $1 billion to fix the Georgia between Russia and Turkey, not the one between South Carolina and Florida.

Sorry, but the thought of us spending $1 billion to repair a country whose president, though a democrat, recklessly provoked a war with a brutish Russia, which was itching to bash its neighbor, makes no sense to me. Yes, we should diplomatically squeeze Russia until it withdraws its troops; no one should be invading neighbors.

But where are our priorities? How many wars can we fight at once without finishing even one? Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Georgia. Which is the priority? Americans are struggling to meet their mortgages, and we’re sending $1 billion to a country whose president behaved irresponsibly, just to poke Vladimir Putin in the eye. Couldn’t we poke Putin with $100 million?

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coldwar; foreignaid; geopolitics; georgia; putin; russia
I haven't fully formed my opinions on this issue and am putting this article up to elicit comment. I was unaware that we were forking over $1B. My reflex is to disagree with anything Friedman says, but spending money like this makes me extremely uneasy. Remarks, anyone?
1 posted on 09/08/2008 4:28:35 AM PDT by ottbmare
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To: ottbmare

“...recklessly provoked a war with a brutish Russia,...”

Read this and you will know what Thomas Friedman doesn’t:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php


2 posted on 09/08/2008 4:32:15 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, Call 'em what you will, they ALL have Fairies livin' in their Trees.)
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To: ottbmare
The people of Georgia aren’t plotting to destroy us. Thats a plus....
3 posted on 09/08/2008 4:37:00 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: ottbmare
We’re going to spend $1 billion to fix the Georgia between Russia and Turkey, not the one between South Carolina and Florida.

By "we" sending money to the State of Georgia, he means the taxpayers of the United States. Unless there was a specific reason why Georgia should get money in preference to every other state, I would expect a billion dollars sent there would be matched by similar payments to every other state. Those would have to be paid for by an extra $1 billion of federal debt (with likely permanent interest payments) or taxes for the people of Georgia.

4 posted on 09/08/2008 4:51:07 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: ottbmare
You mean there is more that one Georgia? Those guys at the New York Times are just so much more clever than me!
5 posted on 09/08/2008 4:56:45 AM PDT by gridlock (HIX IN STIX DIG MCCAIN CHICK PICK)
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To: KarlInOhio

The author is writing about the nation of Georgia, not the State of Georgia. That’s why I put (Not that Georgia) in the headline.


6 posted on 09/08/2008 4:57:16 AM PDT by ottbmare
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To: ottbmare
Russia has been planning this since we opted to install a missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic. It is not that Russia has any fear of the missile system but rather a portion is our cozy relationship with what Russia considers its surrogate states and also its ambition to rule Europe with its new energy weapon. When Russia shut off gas supplies to Poland they saw a West that was in sheer panic, and that was when the plans to seize the oil and gas pipelines that run through Georgia materialized. Once in control of those they could shut down gas supplies to a very large portion of Europe and make nearly any demand they chose. Do not be fooled by the chess masters, Putin now is sending a naval force to Venezuela in order to allow Chavez to take part in its energy denial scheme. Russian oil and Hugo's oil have something in common, high levels of sulfur. Currently the US is the only place for Venezuela have its oil refined, but Russia is adding enough capacity with the help of BP to deny the US any oil from Venezuela. Be afraid when forming your opinion, be very afraid...
7 posted on 09/08/2008 4:59:52 AM PDT by Camel Joe (liberal=socialist=royalist/imperialist pawn=enemy of Freedom)
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To: ottbmare

Georgia is one of the most strategically-important countries in the region.

An attack on Iran will require overflight of, and possibly landings in, Georgia. Israel and the United States depend on Georgia as an ally.

Georgia also contains the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline that allows the West to reduce its dependence on Middle Eastern oil while bypassing Russia.

Oil as a weapon.

Iran, the proxy of Russia.

Now you know why energy independence is the Manhattan project of the century for America.

And why Sarah America, a leading expert on energy, and a public relations phenomenon, will help to guide and lead America to a secure and prosperous future.

You future, and that of your friends and families, depends on electing the McCain-Palin team.

Do something about it!

Elect Sarah America!


8 posted on 09/08/2008 5:02:07 AM PDT by Enduring Freedom (Sarah America!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: ottbmare
The author is writing about the nation of Georgia, not the State of Georgia. That’s why I put (Not that Georgia) in the headline.

Friedman seemed to be complaining that we should be spending money on our own Georgia instead of the one currently being kicked by Russia. I was trying to point out the pointlessness of paying ourselves with our own money. I didn't check out the whole article to see if he stuck with that theme from the first few paragraphs posted or if he dropped it later on.

10 posted on 09/08/2008 5:07:09 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: Enduring Freedom

Want proof of Russia’s hidden agenda in Georgia?

Russian jets targeted major oil pipeline: Georgia
http://highboldtage.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/russian-jets-targeted-major-oil-pipeline-georgia/

Iran minister: Russia to supply Tehran with new missile system
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/938716.html

The Russian bear is back, wounded and desperate.

This is no time to elect Jobama.


11 posted on 09/08/2008 5:10:24 AM PDT by Enduring Freedom (Sarah America!)
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To: Camel Joe
Russian oil and Hugo's oil have something in common, high levels of sulfur. Currently the US is the only place for Venezuela have its oil refined, but Russia is adding enough capacity with the help of BP to deny the US any oil from Venezuela. Be afraid when forming your opinion, be very afraid...

I knew Hugo's oil was hard to refine because of the sulfur, but I didn't know Russia's was too. Thanks for the info.

The good news is that foreign investment (which includes foreign expertise, administration, and ability NOT to steal all the money budgeted for maintenance, let alone improvements of infrastructure...) is flooding OUT of Russia at electronic speed and stunning volume.

Do you know if BP is STILL helping the thugs add capacity to refine?

12 posted on 09/08/2008 5:19:16 AM PDT by Sal (Pyrrhic Pooty just took Russia down to a 3rd class, 3rd world POS country that is dying.)
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To: Sal

They just “inked” a new deal last week following the lead of Gordon Brown and his new appeasment party. Russia will name the new CEo and BP will do Putins bidding...


13 posted on 09/08/2008 5:25:25 AM PDT by Camel Joe (liberal=socialist=royalist/imperialist pawn=enemy of Freedom)
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To: ottbmare

Three things.

Friedman talks as though this is a third war. We’re not at war there.

If he understood the background on how the war started he would know that Russia had planned this and had all their assets in place and then provoked Georgia into an ill considered response. Oldest trick in the books to make your intended victim look like the aggressor.

A billion dollars really is chump change in the big scheme of things and unless he can prove that it’s going to rearm Georgia instead of for humanitarian aid he’s pissing in the wind.


14 posted on 09/08/2008 5:28:53 AM PDT by saganite (Obama is a political STD)
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To: Dandydoodley
When has today’s Jews who owns or manages the world media complex ever denounced communist aggression against a Sovereign Nation? Most Jews indorse and promote a communist ideology (ò¿ó)

I hit abuse on your post.

15 posted on 09/08/2008 5:41:59 AM PDT by ottbmare
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To: ottbmare

He sleeps with the fishes.


16 posted on 09/08/2008 6:00:09 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
He sleeps with the fishes.

Great, thank you. Now can you remove my #15? Because I quoted him when I informed him that I hit abuse on his stupid post. We don't want that sort of thing appearing anywhere on the forum.

17 posted on 09/08/2008 6:32:59 AM PDT by ottbmare
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To: All

Thank you all for helping me and pointing me to links; I knew I could count on you.

Now let me tell you where I’m going with this.

I have a close friend who is, shall we say, in a position of influence. He has contact with many other influential people both here and abroad. His views are often reinforced by RINOs, the New York Slimes, and foreign nationals in elevated positions. Sometimes he contacts me and solicits my opinion on various issues to get in touch with what the grass roots, right-wing whack jobs out in the back woods are thinking. So I represent to him the views of normal people with common sense.

When providing him with opinions, some of my arguments are framed by what I read through FR—not just the articles but of course the commentary that you all provide. You do not know what good you may do with your thoughts and observations, not just on this thread but on many others.


18 posted on 09/08/2008 6:40:02 AM PDT by ottbmare
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To: ottbmare

Russia ‘wants energy market control’

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24313499-38200,00.html

The New Cold War may ironically be won by Alaska! - how appropriate!


19 posted on 09/08/2008 7:05:34 AM PDT by Enduring Freedom (Liberal losers are not inspired by success and achievement - they are diminished in its presence.)
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To: ottbmare

I would be curious to what the make up of the $1 Billion is. If it is like other aid packages, then it most likely a mix of loan gaurantees and money set aside within DoD/State for trainers and contractors. There might be some cash, but I doubt it is that much. Like with Israel and Egypt we act as cosignors on loans of big purchases. Also this will probably be spread out over several years. Are we at the point that previous surplus military inventory of M113s and M60s is depleted? We use to dole that crap out like candy when outfitting a vassal state.


20 posted on 09/08/2008 8:13:09 AM PDT by neb52
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To: ottbmare; Admin Moderator

Thank you.


21 posted on 09/08/2008 9:28:14 AM PDT by Sal (Pyrrhic Pooty just took Russia down to a 3rd class, 3rd world POS country that is dying.)
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To: Camel Joe
They just “inked” a new deal last week following the lead of Gordon Brown and his new appeasment party. Russia will name the new CEo and BP will do Putins bidding...

Damn! I'm pretty sure Gordon Brown and his groveling appeasers aren't long for this world (think the shock of Red Ken, haha), but a done deal is a done deal.

If Putin picks the new CEO he WILL be corrupt. It's a sad thing to hang my hopes on, but maybe he'll steal enough money from the budget that the project won't get done or at least done badly.

22 posted on 09/08/2008 9:36:16 AM PDT by Sal (Pyrrhic Pooty just took Russia down to a 3rd class, 3rd world POS country that is dying.)
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To: Sal

I hate anti-Semites.


23 posted on 09/08/2008 10:05:43 AM PDT by ottbmare
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