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Sheriff Lott's New Toy
Reason.com ^ | 9.01.2008 | Rdley Balko

Posted on 09/11/2008 10:27:19 PM PDT by Oyarsa

The Richland County, South Carolina Sheriff's Department (that's them above) just obtained an armored personnel carrier, complete with a belt-fed, .50-cal turreted machine gun. Sheriff Leon Lott has charmingly named the vehicle "The Peacemaker," and insists that using a caliber of ammunition that even the U.S. military is reluctant to use against human targets (it's generally reserved for use against armored vehicles) will "save lives."

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; donutwatch; govwatch; jbts; leonlott; lott; omg; richlandcounty; sheriff; tyrantsoncall
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1 posted on 09/11/2008 10:27:20 PM PDT by Oyarsa
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To: Oyarsa
He could use it in rounding up illegals too. Read the article and this was not one of the suggested use for it.
2 posted on 09/11/2008 10:30:20 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Oyarsa

All right, this toy is ridiculous, but what’s with the reference to protesters in New York. The victims of the raids conspired to carry out violations of violent crimes, both against people and property. Free speech and consent had nothing to do with it.

Can I go smash the window at the offices of “Reason” without reprecussion?


3 posted on 09/11/2008 10:33:02 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Oyarsa

Why stop there? How about Predators and Hellfire missiles for those pesky car chases...

4 posted on 09/11/2008 10:33:42 PM PDT by null and void (When you bang your forehead on the ground five times a day, you get brain damage.)
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To: Oyarsa
I'm reminded of that scene in "The Untouchables" where Kevin Costner shouts, "Let's do some good," as he smashes his way into Al Capone's warehouse with a snowplow, only to find cases of . . .

umbrellas.

5 posted on 09/11/2008 10:34:18 PM PDT by Huntress (If you have a chip on your shoulder, you think everybody's trying to knock it off.-AnAmericanMother)
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To: guitarplayer1953

I support and Appretiate the tough difficult job a plice officer does.

Can risk life or limb at any traffick stop.

But I don’t like to see them spend money on toys when better uses could be made.

Something like Drug Diversion porgrams or a Drug Court to free up jails not have to spend tax dollars building new ones and maintains old ones.


6 posted on 09/11/2008 10:34:25 PM PDT by jakerobins
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To: Oyarsa
Looks like they are preparing to rescue Elian or the Waco children .
7 posted on 09/11/2008 10:35:53 PM PDT by kbennkc (What passes for optimism is most often an intellectual error)
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To: Oyarsa

I like it.Show of force to keep down a riot is just what we need.It will also help in hostage situations or showdowns where police are out gunned.


8 posted on 09/11/2008 10:36:48 PM PDT by noutopia (Home of the brave,not the spineless.)
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To: Tublecane

“but what’s with the reference to protesters in New York”

Damnit, I meant Minnesota. That is a particularly egregious error, seeming as how I live 30 minutes away from the Twin Cities.

Anyway, meticulously consistent libertarians annoy me. As Emerson said, foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. “Reason”-able people can be so obtuse.


9 posted on 09/11/2008 10:37:18 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Huntress

With or without prohibition, Capone would have been a murderous thug. Kevin Costner was right to lock him away, even if it was for what I consider to be a patriotic act: violating income-tax laws.


10 posted on 09/11/2008 10:39:49 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: noutopia

That’s all well and good But is it needed. If it saves lives and make Police Officers safer GREAT. LOVE IT. Nothing like the sound of a large armed vehicle rumbling down the street to put some fear into bad guys. They know who’s coming...BAD BOYS..BAD BOYS


11 posted on 09/11/2008 10:41:10 PM PDT by jakerobins
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To: Oyarsa

Isn’t a .50 cal illegal to use on humans according to UN international law?

Not that the UN has jurisdiction here, unless it’s “protected land” issues.


12 posted on 09/11/2008 10:41:29 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: noutopia
"I like it.Show of force to keep down a riot is just what we need.It will also help in hostage situations or showdowns where police are out gunned."

Quite the appetite for boot leather there.

13 posted on 09/11/2008 10:41:34 PM PDT by rednesss (Fred Thompson - 2008)
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To: Tublecane
"Can I go smash the window at the offices of “Reason” without reprecussion?"

You sure can! It all depends how good you are at not getting caught.

14 posted on 09/11/2008 10:43:20 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: jakerobins

I think this is milatary surplus that has been refurbushed to police service.


15 posted on 09/11/2008 10:43:25 PM PDT by noutopia (Home of the brave,not the spineless.)
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To: Oyarsa

This may seem excessive for S. Carolina. However, for Oakland crackhouses, these are routine, or should be.

Figure any crackhouse will have at least 3 bulletproof vest defeating AK47’s. “as larry said “when you absolutely, positively must kill every single mother f*cker in the room” AK 47 is what you must use.

Heavy arm require heavy law enforcement tools. Simple.


16 posted on 09/11/2008 10:43:32 PM PDT by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: Nathan Zachary

“You sure can! It all depends how good you are at not getting caught.”

I think I meant to say “without moral reprecussion”. Unless “Reason”s philosophy is that whatever you can get away with is fair game, they’d have a hard time staying consistent and calling the police to arrest me.


17 posted on 09/11/2008 10:46:17 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: jakerobins
My personal opinion on drugs is more of the libertarian mindset than the conservative.

I've lived both side of the issue and like a any thing one can abuse it.

18 posted on 09/11/2008 10:47:13 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Oyarsa

This must come to an end some way. It absolutely must


19 posted on 09/11/2008 10:47:38 PM PDT by wastedyears (Single dudes for hockey moms.)
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To: Oyarsa

There’s a difference between obtaining adequate firepower and stupidity. What doe he want to do - pretend he’s in Desert Storm?


20 posted on 09/11/2008 10:49:33 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: Tublecane
All right, this toy is ridiculous

It's also dangerous. What is going on in this sheriff's county that he thinks he needs an armored military vehicle like this? A man who buys something like this obviously intends to use it - and it's hard to envision any normal police work that would require it. The photograph featuring deputies playing soldiers doesn't exactly inspire confidence either - this is a big mess waiting to happen.
21 posted on 09/11/2008 10:50:06 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: null and void
Why should Obama call for Large Standing Armies, when he's already got it?

Let's see....if I'm sitting in my living room watching TV, and someone comes busting my door down...

Knowing that I haven't done anything wrong, should I assume it is the cops, and spread-eagle on the floor, and hope they don't rough me up too bad, and trash my house too much....

Or should I assume that this is some drug-crazed nut case, reach in my desk drawer, pull out my pistol and fight back?

If it's the drug-crazed nut case, I stand a chance.

If it's a SWAT team that has wrongfully attacked my house, I'm dead if I decide to violently defend my house.

They will make sure that I am wrong.

Libertarian streak OFF....

22 posted on 09/11/2008 10:50:22 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: Oyarsa

I could understand the Sheriff of Sadr City maybe needing one of these contraptions. But not until the US pulls out of Iraq. And maybe not even then.

There is neither reason or justification for any LEA in the United States to have one of these. Certainly NOT equipped with a .50 cal belt-fed machine gun. I would be hard pressed to conceive of an urban environment where letting off that thing could be safe: .50 cal bullets go thru stuff and just keep going.

Way, way over-the-top. Insane.

If things are *that badly* out of control, the good Sheriff ought to call in the National Guard.

And whoever oversees and approves his annual budget ought to call in the auditors: this kind of flagrant waste of taxpayer dollars is a sure sign that gross overspending is happening. Sheriff needs his budget trimmed.

And I don’t care if he *did* get it for a cheap deal: he didn’t need it, so spending so little as $1 was by definition a wrongful spend. Even if he got it for free, he didn’t need it so even filling up the gas tank is by definition a wrongful spend.

Even if the Army paid him to take it, he didn’t need it, so both the Army and the Sheriff need to be investigated: the Army for misappropriated funds, and the Sheriff for unlawful conversion.


23 posted on 09/11/2008 10:52:08 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Oyarsa

A lot of departments are buying surplus military APC’s.

They are a heck of a lot cheaper than a new LENCO Bear.

I do have to say that the .50cal machine gun is gross overkill as far as law enforcement use goes.


24 posted on 09/11/2008 10:54:59 PM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Democrats: Supporting America's enemies since 1824)
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To: Nathan Zachary

“Isn’t a .50 cal illegal to use on humans according to UN international law?”

Under the Geneva Conventions it is......BUT you can shoot at their “equipment”.


25 posted on 09/11/2008 10:57:08 PM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Democrats: Supporting America's enemies since 1824)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Remember to a .50 Cal. a house is concealment not cover.
26 posted on 09/11/2008 10:58:07 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Oyarsa

Great idea, giving this little tinpot would-be soldier his own little army.

This is the “S.W.A.T.” mentality taken to its illogical extreme.


27 posted on 09/11/2008 10:59:04 PM PDT by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D. - "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: noutopia

The “outgunned” line is a tired lie. A fool with a AK-47 does not have to be met with police weilding their own M-16s. One shot from one quality deer rifle from a protected position is the strongest firepower any police force should ever need. This is a useless toy, whose only purpose is to make the police feel giddy.


28 posted on 09/11/2008 10:59:06 PM PDT by Teacher317 (Suddenly a big time Palin supporter... who's that McCabe guy?)
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To: Oyarsa

***Sheriff Leon Lott has charmingly named the vehicle “The Peacemaker,”***

Nothing new. About 38 years ago the town of Cairo, Illinois had a home made version they called “The War Waggon”.


29 posted on 09/11/2008 11:00:33 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Oyarsa
Read THIS and then tell me that the police really need this much firepower.
30 posted on 09/11/2008 11:00:38 PM PDT by smokingfrog (He that lives upon hope will die fasting. - Ben Franklin)
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To: Wiseghy
Heavy arm require heavy law enforcement tools. Simple.

"Simple" is certainly the correct word choice. Only a simpleton would ever default to greater firepower over using sound judgment, strategy, and patience. There is absolutely ZERO reason to EVER storm a supposed crack-house with military-grade arms. You've clearly watched far too many Hollywood movies.

31 posted on 09/11/2008 11:03:29 PM PDT by Teacher317 (Suddenly a big time Palin supporter... who's that McCabe guy?)
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To: Oyarsa
The Richland County, South Carolina Sheriff's Department (that's them above) just obtained an armored personnel carrier, complete with a belt-fed, .50-cal turreted machine gun.

WTF is a damned POLICE unit doing with an armored personell carrier ?????

The good news is that 30-06 AP will go right through it.

32 posted on 09/11/2008 11:05:59 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (McCain/Palin 2008 : Palin the Paladin 2012)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Isn’t a .50 cal illegal to use on humans according to UN international law?

Laws of Land Warfare and the Geneva Convention.

33 posted on 09/11/2008 11:07:20 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (McCain/Palin 2008 : Palin the Paladin 2012)
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To: Oyarsa
ridiculous....next he'll want a crate of javelins

our police are not Navy Seals or Green Berets

they are cops....police officers, it's time they get real and leave the militarization goodies to folks trained for it and CONSTITUTIONALLY proscribed for it.

it's ridiculous

why not throw in a few suitcases of anadrol ampules while we're at it and a resident tattoo artist?

that's what most look like now...

nuts

34 posted on 09/11/2008 11:08:12 PM PDT by wardaddy (Obama/Pol Pot 2008)
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To: rednesss

pithy there red


35 posted on 09/11/2008 11:08:54 PM PDT by wardaddy (Obama/Pol Pot 2008)
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To: jakerobins
That’s all well and good But is it needed. If it saves lives and make Police Officers safer GREAT. LOVE IT. Nothing like the sound of a large armed vehicle rumbling down the street to put some fear into bad guys

Are you really that stupid?? This is not purchased for riot control. This is a terror weapon against armed citizens.

There is NO call for a police unit to have an APC and a belt fed Ma Deuce.

36 posted on 09/11/2008 11:09:20 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (McCain/Palin 2008 : Palin the Paladin 2012)
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To: noutopia

“I like it.Show of force to keep down a riot is just what we need.It will also help in hostage situations or showdowns where police are out gunned.”

You won’t like it when Obama sends these house to house searching for your guns.


37 posted on 09/11/2008 11:13:45 PM PDT by TDT
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To: Oyarsa

I guess they are fighting all those Mennonites on their way to church /sarc.


38 posted on 09/11/2008 11:15:00 PM PDT by wac3rd (The MSM will accompany the Captain of the SS Marxist Titanic to the bottom of Lake Michigan)
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To: Oyarsa

When the sheriff needs a tank, the law abiding citizen’s need anti-tank weapons.

Civilians should always be able to appose police power in the event of rampant police corruption and abuse of power.


39 posted on 09/11/2008 11:15:37 PM PDT by Fichori (ironic: adj. 1 Characterized by or constituting irony. 2 Obamy getting beat up by a girl.)
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To: tet68

Like I send if he could give a good reason for it will save lives. Not just that comment but why it will.

How ofter are you going to run into people with .50 machine guns?? Yes we in the south like guns. But, seriously dud you need this huge armored truck.

It seems like showing off look at this TOY I got the huge new truck. I wouldn’t want them to use this vehicle against people who are lightly armed and just resisting. Show some restaraint.

It just seems police departments want to one-up each other with the NEW thing. Well if it saves lives fine. But a new gadget you may use once that cost a fortune is a waste.

On the other hand if I could get into my car I bet i could out run them! LOL That monster probably gets 1 mile/Gallon? They would look pretty stupid trying to push that to a Gas Station.

But seriously OK seized vehicles and money ok under some circumstances.

But alot of Department seem to seize items they really don’t have a right to or try and get more money than they may need for toys.

I get tired of hearing we need money for the schools (Education) think of the children, more tax dollars. The Police department is arresting more suspects and seize their house and other items that probably weren’t bought with Drug proceeds.

Taking a Car is one think but someone’s home?? The power they have to seize is to easy for them to take an nearly impossible to disprove.

Yeah a guy who deals 10’s or 100’s of thousands of dollars of cocaine take his cars or trucks that he trasport the drugs in but the COPS should have a higher burden of proof.

Taking someone’s car and all their cash money in a bank account when they were caught with a baggie of weed. That’s WRONG! That’s abusing your power. That is not justice.

That is Law enforcement abusing a power given to them. But we always hear about drug arrest and most are for Marijuana.

Which I just don’t think requires someone forfeit most of their assets for possesing. Nor going to jail for longer than some molesting a child or Rape.

Filling up jails with pot heads (Who are generally peacefull) with violent offenders? NO. The Marijuana dealer can go to a diversion court pay fines get treatment do community service.

Save us Some tax dollars here in SC. Were not made of money!! It may not be alot to some people but when your buying toys I’m cutting back on my lifestyle. Because of Taxes and Gasoline mainly.

So how about it. sell the truck to the ATF or whoever will buy it Arnold S. might buy it. And use money to give us some help.

I learned in economics tinstafl there is no free lunch!! The money comes from somewhere.

Just because it was a check from the Gov doesn’t mean it isn’t just your money they are hading back. And want you to thank them. UGHHHH We need to reform the TAX CODE.


40 posted on 09/11/2008 11:20:39 PM PDT by jakerobins
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To: jakerobins; Centurion2000
You will think that right up until the day that you are on receiving end of it; then you will be wide-eyed, open-mouthed, and wondering "What happened to my freedoms!?!?!?"

Although you may be being sarcastic. If you're not, you're nuts.

41 posted on 09/11/2008 11:25:40 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: Oyarsa
Operation Garden Plot
42 posted on 09/11/2008 11:28:03 PM PDT by endthematrix
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To: Oyarsa

I can see the armored veheicle being of use in a hostage situation, or maybe a meth lab raid, if they need a reinforced door knocked down.

But the .50 MG ? The bullets from that thing will carry for miles and could kill people in the next block or the next county.


43 posted on 09/11/2008 11:28:28 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: Oyarsa

I can see the armored veheicle being of use in a hostage situation, or maybe a meth lab raid, if they need a reinforced door knocked down.

But the .50 MG ? The bullets from that thing will carry for miles and could kill people in the next block or the next county.


44 posted on 09/11/2008 11:29:46 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: noutopia

Under what exact circumstances would *police* be justified in using a weapon that can go completely through buildings and has a lethal range of well over a mile ?


45 posted on 09/11/2008 11:32:26 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: Oyarsa
The lefty gun grabbers wet their pants over citizens owning a single-shot .50BMG rifle with a scope. This jackass Sheriff wants to use a belt fed version against his fellow citizens.

We have a local firearms collector with a similar belt fed .50BMG mounted "rat patrol" style on his truck. It's a bit costly to keep the beast fed. I've never heard the familiar sound of the rifle being fired here over the 8 years I've lived in the area.

46 posted on 09/11/2008 11:41:07 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: jakerobins
But I don’t like to see them spend money on toys when better uses could be made.

Something like Drug Diversion programs or a Drug Court to free up jails not have to spend tax dollars building new ones and maintains old ones.

no offense, but properly utilized, this hardware is not intended to fill jails (body bags maybe)

47 posted on 09/11/2008 11:44:53 PM PDT by daku (Obama has experience pouring out of those big ears of his.)
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To: PLMerite

Raiding a meth lab? I have read those are some crazy people!! Not your average druggie paranoid/Violent/and well armed! Bad STUFF! I would like to get this drug off the street it destroys people inside and out. Somehow there is always a child inside as well?? But i’ve read the fumes are toxic I think you might have to call in HAZ/MAT for that cleanup. But ordinarily you aren’t going to find too many heavily armed dealers in SC. That’s why I Get angry. THE Results are never what’s promised. Sure drug arrests are up! But thats people with small amounts of the drug. And other drugs very small ammounts not dealers. The cops are either too lazy or uninformed to find the big guys. But I don’t beleve in taking a guy who has a small crack problem and putting him in prison. That doesn’t help anyone out. He needs help. And he’s not a dealer with one rock don’t know how they fudge the numbers on those busts. We really need to reform our system. We could save money and stop having to dish out Millions to build a super jail every few years. Need judges with common sense and alt sentencing no matter how bad you think Marijuana is someone carrying it in their car doesn’t deserve 5 years in PRISON. Thats excessive. They are in there with all types of violeent offenders. Generally I think Marijuana smokers are Non violent. Make them pay their debt or whatever just not so HORRIBLY OUT OF WHACK!


48 posted on 09/11/2008 11:46:38 PM PDT by jakerobins
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To: Oyarsa
Weren't those old M-113s made out of aluminum? And I wouldn't worry too much about these Keystone Kops and their new toy. I will predict that within 6 months, both the vehicle and the .50 BMG will be permanently broken down, nobody in the department will be able to fix them, and their budget won't pay for any qualified repairs.
49 posted on 09/11/2008 11:47:25 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: wardaddy

LOL as long as I was allowed to have the same goodies. A couple blocks of C4..M60 depleated uranium rounds. MY shoping list goodies would go for days.


50 posted on 09/11/2008 11:48:44 PM PDT by jakerobins
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