Posted on 09/16/2008 8:17:08 PM PDT by js1138
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Speakers invited to attend a Vatican-sponsored congress on the evolution debate will not include proponents of creationism and intelligent design, organizers said.
...
He said arguments "that cannot be critically defined as being science, or philosophy or theology did not seem feasible to include in a dialogue at this level and, therefore, for this reason we did not think to invite" supporters of creationism and intelligent design.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnews.com ...
Baloney
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Flame away apostates
Looks like they’re adding credence to the generation of this new religion, scientism/naturalism/whateverism.
God created and guides evolution. What’s so difficult here?
Is God so simple that He can only create a one-time snapshot universe? Of course not.
Just as God guides the unfolding of a flower from seed to bud to full bloom, God can guide the continuous unfolding of the entire universe and everything in it.
God created evolution.
Just IMHO.
It’s worse than I thought! I wonder if the Pope is aware of this decision to “keep things scientific”? God is the original scientist....without considering God as the Creator, they are saying in effect man is god! Just what hands are they playing into?
“cannot be critically defined as being science, or philosophy or theology”
Now intelligent design cannot be defined as theology? WTF?
If there is no creator, there is no need for a savior, and no judge for sin.
Ummmm... Jesus was NOT the Creator.
Read your Bible again
God created and guides evolution. What’s so difficult here?
I totally agree with you .. Even as a kid I saw how that all makes sense. I went to Catholic schools and all who taught me pretty much agreed also.I had both Christian Brothers and nuns all say God created everything and evolution was the process. o easy to accept for me. God and science compliment eachother
Both John Paul II and the then Cardinal Ratzinger felt that beliefs must change when what we reveal through science conflicts with our faith. In other words, if a scientific discovery conflicts with our faith we must reexamine that faith to see why we were wrong. Case in point, Galileo. The Galileo case is a prime example of what happens when the Bible is interpreted literally.
I'm Catholic. I don't read the Bible. In any event, I don't remember seeing Jesus mentioned in Genesis, but I could be wrong because, again, I'm a Catholic so I don't read the Bible.
Is Jesus mentioned in Genesis as the Creator?
If what we interpret is shown to be falsifiably wrong...do we still cling to the belief because we feel strongly in it?
You have got to kidding me? You really don't read the Bible?
Read the Gospel of John and let me know what you think
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
Good!
If they just evaluate evolution from a scientific basis, they’ll quickly conclude that the theory doesn’t hold together.
Oh My Lord, I never Thought I would see the day. I defended the Catholic Church saying that time of the church turning
it’s back to Jesus hasn’t come yet, now i can say i was wrong and they are right. Please Forgive them Lord.
for they know not what they do.
Revelation 17 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
Revelation 17
1ONE OF the seven angels who had the seven bowls then came and spoke to me, saying, Come with me! I will show you the doom (sentence, judgment) of the great harlot (idolatress) who is seated on many waters,(A)
2[She] with whom the rulers of the earth have joined in prostitution (idolatry) and with the wine of whose immorality (idolatry) the inhabitants of the earth have become intoxicated.(B)
3And [the angel] bore me away [rapt] in the Spirit into a desert (wilderness), and I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was all covered with blasphemous titles (names), and he had seven heads and ten horns.
4The woman was robed in purple and scarlet and bedecked with gold, precious stones, and pearls, [and she was] holding in her hand a golden cup full of the accursed offenses and the filth of her lewdness and vice.(C)
5And on her forehead there was inscribed a name of mystery [with a secret symbolic meaning]: Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes (idolatresses) and of the filth and atrocities and abominations of the earth.
6I also saw that the woman was drunk, [drunk] with the blood of the saints (God’s people) and the blood of the martyrs [who witnessed] for Jesus. And when I saw her, I was utterly amazed and wondered greatly.
7But the angel said to me, Why do you wonder? I will explain to you the [secret symbolic meaning of the] mystery of the woman, as well as of the beast having the seven heads and ten horns that carries her.
8The beast that you saw [once] was, but [now] is no more, and he is going to come up out of the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and proceed to go to perdition. And the inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been recorded in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they look at the beast, because he [once] was, but [now] is no more, and he is [yet] to come.(D)
9This calls for a mind [to consider that is packed] with wisdom and intelligence [it is something for a particular mode of thinking and judging of thoughts, feelings, and purposes]. The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman is sitting;
10And they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one still exists [and is reigning]; the other [the seventh] has not yet appeared, and when he does arrive, he must stay [but] a brief time.
11And as for the beast that [once] was, but now is no more, he [himself] is an eighth ruler (king, head), but he is of the seven and belongs to them, and he goes to perdition.
12Also the ten horns that you observed are ten rulers (kings) who have as yet received no royal dominion, but together they are to receive power and authority as rulers for a single hour, along with the beast.(E)
13These have one common policy (opinion, purpose), and they deliver their power and authority to the beast.
14They will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings—and those with Him and on His side are chosen and called [elected] and loyal and faithful followers.(F)
15And [the angel further] said to me, The waters that you observed, where the harlot is seated, are races and multitudes and nations and dialects (languages).
16And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will [be the very ones to] hate the harlot (the idolatrous woman); they will make her cheerless (bereaved, desolate), and they will strip her and eat up her flesh and utterly consume her with fire.
17For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His own purpose by acting in harmony in surrendering their royal power and authority to the beast, until the prophetic words (intentions and promises) of God shall be fulfilled.
18And the woman that you saw is herself the great city which dominates and controls the rulers and the leaders of the earth.
Cross references:
Revelation 17:1 : Jer 51:13
Revelation 17:2 : Jer 25:15, 16
Revelation 17:4 : Jer 51:7
Revelation 17:8 : Dan 7:3
Revelation 17:12 : Dan 7:20-24
Revelation 17:14 : Dan 2:47
Why would the Vatican exclude God from it's thinking. They seem like God centered organization to me.
Some people think Jesus Christ is the answer to life, the universe and everything. I'll stick with 42.
Col 1:
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
You call them open minded. I call them something else.
“It’s worse than I thought! I wonder if the Pope is aware of this decision to “keep things scientific”? God is the original scientist....without considering God as the Creator, they are saying in effect man is god! Just what hands are they playing into?”
I think people are reading too much into this.
They don’t need theologians because Benedict is “the” theologian.
He is also a scholar and enjoys a good debate.
He believes christianity has nothing to fear from science.
Allowing evolution to be discussed, in no way, makes it certain the pope will accept or reject various opinions that are offered.
And just because the other groups have not been invited to this particular gathering does not mean their opinions have not been examined - or that they won’t be invited in the future.
It is, afterall, a discussion about the theory of evolution itself.
Maybe people ought to allow the event to occur - see what happens - before they assume the worst about a good man.
“Ummmm... Jesus was NOT the Creator.”
Through Him all things were made.
I’m liking this Pope more and more.
“I’m Catholic. I don’t read the Bible. In any event, I don’t remember seeing Jesus mentioned in Genesis, but I could be wrong because, again, I’m a Catholic so I don’t read the Bible.”
Are you for real?
Catholics read the bible.
If you don’t - that’s your problem.
You need to get a Bible and read it. The Gospel of John says that Jesus, the Word, made all things (John 1:3). Genesis says that God created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1). Jesus is God; therefore Jesus is the Creator. He is not mentioned by name in the book of Genesis, but Genesis does refer to Jesus. Read Genesis 1:26. It says, “Let Us make man in Our image.” Who do the words “Us” and “Our” refer to? They refer to the Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Do they think this will bring on the Revelations from the Bible?
Muslims think the same thing with their wanton destruction for Israel.
what the heck are you talking about?
“God created and guides evolution. What’s so difficult here?”
I’m not an evolution proponent, but that’s a good point. God could have used whatever means He wanted for creation.
Clean-up in aisle 3. ;-)
Evolution is in direct opposition to Christianity.
Quite simply put: Before the fall, there was no death. If there was death before the fall, then God is a liar, and the entire Bible, faith in Christ, the blood sacrifice, is all in vain...
The trouble is, ID scientists never get the chance to prove their theory, because they get fired, or shunned. That’s why I wish they were invited to the conference, as they would have a chance to show WHY they think ID is science.
whats difficult is that God tried to reason with man for untold generations and man by his nature did not turn to God,but away from him,now we have been given the greatest of mercy,,to just believe and have faith,but not by knowledge,but alas,we are in the dry season,,good is considered evil and evil good,,homosexuality ,abortion,letting people suffer and die from tyrants,trying to destroy christianity for the perverted twisting of seperation of church and state,atheism,and the list goes on and on,all is considered good by more and more in America,but Europe is surely farther along in many respects as liberalism spreads it’s wings wider and wider. I do not hold anything against any one person,,but when many want to teach us the new version of old lies,I don’t listen very well.
Evolution doesn't need God or His guidance. That's the whole point.
God explains very clearly in Genesis what He did and how long it took. Science just hasn't caught up to figure out how He did it. Such an investigation can employ the scientific method. But what is called science today is simply naturalism, which begins with the presumption that nature can account for itself, no God is needed.
If you happen to have the theory of Intelligent Design, perhaps you could email it to the Discovery Institute. They seem to be missing their copy.
Specifically?
They did not invite Geocentric astronomers to Gallileo’s pardon hearings either.
but seriously,
the excerpt is misleading:
ALSO from the article
begin excerpt====
Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, president of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said the other extreme of the evolution debate — proponents of an overly scientific conception of evolution and natural selection — also were not invited.
He reiterated that evolutionary theory “is not incompatible with the teachings of the Catholic Church or the Bible’s message.”
Gennaro Auletta, professor of philosophy at the Gregorian and head of the STOQ project, said organizers hope the encounter will help theologians and philosophers be “a bit more humble and learn to listen a bit more” to what science is unveiling about humanity and the world.
==== end excerpt ====
think Trinity.
By “overly scientific” I assume he means Dawkins.
I see no reason for the Vatican to invite people who are openly hostile to religion.
I am personally encouraged that the church will come to terms with biology more quickly than it did with astronomy. That’s good news.
that is my thought.
we do not need another 500 year time delayed “eureka” moment.
How old is the earth?
“Do they think this will bring on the Revelations from the Bible?”
huh?
“I see no reason for the Vatican to invite people who are openly hostile to religion.”
exactly.
I don’t know why people have the impression this means the Pope is going to endorse anything.
It is a discussion!
This is how people come to understand more about each other!
Are we really not supposed to DISCUSS certain thing?
Our pope isn’t afraid of discussion.
Why should he be?
At least the organizers seem to understand the findings of science and are not rehashing stuff like the age of the earth.
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