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Army trainee died from cottonmouth bites
AP via N&R ^ | 9/17/08 | AP

Posted on 09/17/2008 9:41:54 AM PDT by Rebelbase

FORT BRAGG (AP) — The Army says a Special Forces trainee found dead this summer during a land navigation exercise in North Carolina was bitten by a poisonous water moccasin, also known as a cottonmouth.

The military said Wednesday the autopsy of 20-year-old Pfc. Norman M. Murburg of Dade City, Fla., ruled out heat or dehydration as a cause of death. Murburg was bitten multiple times while training at the Hoffman training area near Fort Bragg's Camp Mackall.

Soldiers began searching for Murburg when he didn't return from the exercise. His body was found June 10. Authorities met with Murburg's family to explain the autopsy results.

Maj. Gen. Thomas Csrnko, who commands the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center, said the death reinforces the dangerous training for Green Beret candidates.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: fortbragg; soldier
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Hate to hear this.
1 posted on 09/17/2008 9:41:54 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Rebelbase

What a terrible way to die. Prayers for his family.


2 posted on 09/17/2008 9:43:49 AM PDT by Islander7 ("Common sense and common decency are uncommon virtues among America's left.")
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To: Rebelbase

It took 4 months to determine the cause of death?


3 posted on 09/17/2008 9:45:03 AM PDT by rahbert
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To: Rebelbase

Horrible! Poor young man.

A water skiing buddy of mine wiped out in a nest of these critters. After pulling him out of the reeds he died in the boat heading back to shore. Never had a chance.

Cottonmouths are dangerous and will strike multiple times when threatened.

Prayers for the family and the other solders training in these dangerous conditions.


4 posted on 09/17/2008 9:51:47 AM PDT by poobear (“…individual salvation depends on collective salvation." Barack Hussein Obama Wesleyan University)
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To: rahbert
Yeah ~ just read several articles on the snake. It's a KNOWN CARRION EATER. Which means that the fact a victim may be covered in cottonmouth bites doesn't mean that's what killed 'em.

These snakes can and will bite anything, dead or alive ~.

They are not particularly aggressive, but you can run into them in the darndest places.

5 posted on 09/17/2008 9:52:23 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rebelbase

How very sad. Prayers for his family and friends. Thanks to the soldier for giving his life for the people of the USA.


6 posted on 09/17/2008 9:52:23 AM PDT by ninergold3 (Christ would not vote for Barack Obama...Alan Keyes)
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To: Rebelbase
Those who die in training accidents are none the less heroes than those who die in combat.


Norman M. Murburg

7 posted on 09/17/2008 9:53:24 AM PDT by iowamark
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To: Rebelbase

I am so sorry to hear this. It’s the reptilian equivalent of being attacked by a tiger. They are aggressive biters that will pursue anything they consider to be a threat or prey, and they are capable of attacking multiple times...

Prayers for this young man’s family - may they be comforted knowing that his sacrifice for his country was not forgotten.

I have very few creatures I will shoot on site - but the cottonmouth (water moccasin) in one of those. However, not all water snakes are water moccasins, so I’ve gone to great lengths to learn to ID them properly. I also have tried to leave turtles and other snakes in my ponds to help control the water moccasin population naturally.


8 posted on 09/17/2008 9:54:49 AM PDT by dandelion
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To: poobear

In high school...we had a local kid...around 16....who was water skiing and ran into a nest of them...he was dead within ten minutes. In Bama....I’ll bet five or six guys die each year from incidents like that. They don’t collect data like that because it’d scare folks too much.


9 posted on 09/17/2008 9:55:34 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: muawiyah

“They are not particularly aggressive, but you can run into them in the darndest places.”
Have you ever encountered one? Ive been attacked in my canoe more than once. I assure you I was doing nothing to provoke them other than passing through the area. They are quite aggressive and easy to trigger.


10 posted on 09/17/2008 9:58:06 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (That sharp pain to the LibRat's groin is called the Palin Effect.)
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To: Rebelbase

Hoffman is where the land navigation and (sometimes) the “events” for SF Selection take place..as well as large portions of the SF “Q” course...humped those sandy hills mucho...more than once was “busting a draw” only to realize that if i got hurt they’d find my body 6 months later if my family was lucky....


11 posted on 09/17/2008 10:00:48 AM PDT by red devil 40
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To: rahbert; Rebelbase
It took 4 months to determine the cause of death?

I suspect it took four months because one would expect an SF trainee to know how to self treat a snakebite and especially that once bitten, to either immediately kill the snake or, get away from it because the snake will continue to strike.

Other questions would be was there any evidence the soldier attempted self treatment?

Was there any evidence the soldier attemted to seek outside help?

Was there any evidence the soldier was not alone?

12 posted on 09/17/2008 10:02:20 AM PDT by fso301
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To: DogBarkTree

Agree. They do not run away like most snakes they stand their ground. Just like a snapping turtle. But, they are not usually deadly. Unusual. They are everywhere in the South. Espically around water. I killed 5 this year 20 feet from my front door. So not tell Moureen Dowd as she would call me a red-neck woman.


13 posted on 09/17/2008 10:03:24 AM PDT by therut
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To: poobear

I’m from Mississippi, you get stoked by a nest of them and you’re done for.

I’ve see nests of em look like Medusa’s head

modeled after my ex-wife


14 posted on 09/17/2008 10:05:32 AM PDT by wardaddy (I want to be David Duchovny's character on Californication for just one week)
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To: DogBarkTree
You were "passing through" where they were!

I doubt they were out actively hunting down canoes!~

15 posted on 09/17/2008 10:05:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: poobear
Waterskier nest of moccasins

Mike

16 posted on 09/17/2008 10:06:14 AM PDT by MichaelP (Because of Palin, the left's a wailin...)
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To: DogBarkTree
I once heard a snake expert on TV say that cottonmouths are not really aggressive. The guy seemed to know what he was talking about but he was simply dead wrong about this one.

I have twice seen cottonmouths attack completely unprovoked. The first time, my brother was just about to step out of a boat when one came within a split second of getting him. Our cousin saw the snake and hit him with an oar just as he was striking. I can still see that white mouth wide open as he was about to hit.

The second time was this year. I saw one in my yard, went back in and got a pistol and to my surprise when I got within about 10 feet of him he turned and came for me. I had rat shot in the pistol and hit him. I had to shoot him again with a solid to finish him off.

They are aggressive as all get out.

17 posted on 09/17/2008 10:06:56 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: DogBarkTree

A cottonmouth is one of the few things I will actually RUN away from as fast as I can.......


18 posted on 09/17/2008 10:07:05 AM PDT by Red Badger (If you're not part of the solution, then you must be part of the government............)
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To: poobear

Where did that happen?


19 posted on 09/17/2008 10:07:37 AM PDT by Vision ("Test everything. Hold on to the Good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21)
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To: Rebelbase

I can relate to this.
I got bit by a cottonmouth in 1959. We lived out in the boonies in Annapolis, Maryland and one morning one had come up through the septic system and was in the toilet. Since I was a kid and dumber than a rock, I tried to fish the snake out. It bit me and I then got to find out about anti-venom shots, tetanus immunizations, and several other things that were unpleasant.
I was really sick for about a week.


20 posted on 09/17/2008 10:07:55 AM PDT by BuffaloJack
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To: pepsionice
Sorry about your friend.

I've had this bastards chase me out of the water. If a mother moccasin has a nest of babies nearby watch out! We used to go around the beaches and hack them with machetes around the lake I grew up on. They eventually retreated to the south side of the lake where there were no houses.

21 posted on 09/17/2008 10:08:45 AM PDT by poobear (“…individual salvation depends on collective salvation." Barack Hussein Obama Wesleyan University)
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To: fso301

My neighbors back in TX always advised to keep well away from creeks in our area, and that these were agressive
dangerous beasts unlike the copperheads.

Condolences on the loss of a brave man.


22 posted on 09/17/2008 10:08:48 AM PDT by rahbert
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To: rahbert; Rebelbase

I guess another question investigators might have had concerned the location of the bites. Were the bites in unusual locations for snake bites?


23 posted on 09/17/2008 10:11:12 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Rebelbase
Wish I had’t run across this.

My dear grandson, just out of a 15 monther in Afghanistan (second Vanity Fair Article in this issue (Oct) by Sebastian Junger on them - BATTLE CO., is headed for that training in Nov.

It puzzles me why they are still going through the jungle warfare training of the Vietnam era - when we are fighting in deserts and mountains?

To me, it's an unnecessary risk...not to mention training for the wrong kind of terrain...

24 posted on 09/17/2008 10:12:52 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (No trees were killed in sending this message but a lot of electrons were terribly agitated)
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To: Rebelbase

An old girlfriend was walking down a lakeside road in southern Virginia when she saw a cottonmouth slide out across the street in front of her about 20 yards away. She stopped and waited but the snake stopped when she did. After a minute or two, she slowly started walking to the farside of the road and the snake moved across to the same side. She stopped and then started walking back toward the side the snake came from. The snake reversed course and started coming toward her. She backed up and was pondering her next move when over the hill came a nice big Chevy 4x4 truck driven by a local teenager. The truck pulled up and slammed on the brakes right over top of the snake grinding it into the pavement. He then backed up again and rested his back wheels on the snake and peeled out leaving a burning rubber-encrusted carcass.

He then pulled up to my girl friend, tipped his John Deere hat and said, “There, he won’t be giving you any more problems. Have a nice day!”

True story.


25 posted on 09/17/2008 10:13:34 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: Rebelbase

Prayers indeed for this brave young man and the family he leaves behind. A tragic and horrible way to die.

Which begs the question: why would we want to keep such a species of snake alive?

I say put a bounty on each cottonmouth head, and wipe the bastards out once and for all.

Plenty of other water snakes to take their place.


26 posted on 09/17/2008 10:13:49 AM PDT by mkjessup (I'm not a Community Organizer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!)
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To: muawiyah

I doubt you have ever encountered one in the wild. They are quite aggressive. If you want to stick to your Penguins can tap dance utopian’s belief that these snakes aren’t aggressive then go right ahead.


27 posted on 09/17/2008 10:14:30 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (That sharp pain to the LibRat's groin is called the Palin Effect.)
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To: pepsionice
Snakebite deaths are recorded and reported worldwide. The US has about a dozen such cases per year. India has gobs of them, and Australia, for its population, kinda' leaps off the charts.

I grew up in rattlesnake/copperhead country ~ you could encounter as many as 4 kinds of rattlers, several subspecies of copperheads (differentiated only by highly educated herpitologists), and, if you got down to Posey County, you could encounter a cottonmouth every now and then.

Best way to deal with poisonous snakes is to STAY AWAY. Find out what habitat they like locally, and don't go there.

In India highly poisonous snakes inhabit and love essentially the same habitat as human beings Besides, they are bigger! This leads to a higher number of snakebite deaths than here. However, my friends from India say they are taught the same lessons I learned ~ stay out of their habitat PLUS don't let your neighborhood get overrun with rats and mice or you will attract a big snake!

28 posted on 09/17/2008 10:15:02 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: pepsionice
Snakebite deaths are recorded and reported worldwide. The US has about a dozen such cases per year. India has gobs of them, and Australia, for its population, kinda' leaps off the charts.

I grew up in rattlesnake/copperhead country ~ you could encounter as many as 4 kinds of rattlers, several subspecies of copperheads (differentiated only by highly educated herpitologists), and, if you got down to Posey County, you could encounter a cottonmouth every now and then.

Best way to deal with poisonous snakes is to STAY AWAY. Find out what habitat they like locally, and don't go there.

In India highly poisonous snakes inhabit and love essentially the same habitat as human beings Besides, they are bigger! This leads to a higher number of snakebite deaths than here. However, my friends from India say they are taught the same lessons I learned ~ stay out of their habitat PLUS don't let your neighborhood get overrun with rats and mice or you will attract a big snake!

29 posted on 09/17/2008 10:15:07 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rebelbase

I remember back in the late 50’s or maybe 60’s an Army Ranger training at Eglin AFB was bitten by a coral snake. They literally had a jet fighter fly in anti-venom from New Orleans. The guy survived.


30 posted on 09/17/2008 10:16:11 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: Vision
Called my sister. She said it happened in her senior year, 1971 Florida. It was her boyfriends buddy. The guy was about 18 years old. I knew him because we all skied behind the same boat.
31 posted on 09/17/2008 10:17:36 AM PDT by poobear (“…individual salvation depends on collective salvation." Barack Hussein Obama Wesleyan University)
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To: DogBarkTree
“They are not particularly aggressive, but you can run into them in the darndest places.”

I was fishing with my brother in law and he poked one with a fishing rod. It chased him for 10 minutes until I finally shot it. It's the only time I've ever seen a snake chase someone.

32 posted on 09/17/2008 10:17:40 AM PDT by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: MichaelP

I wonder if these reports of a skier getting into a “nest” are described that way because of the responders (or the victim) seeing numerous bite marks all over the victim. I did not know that cottonmouths would bite repeatedly - and would also have assumed multiple snakes.

I’m wary of rattlesnakes but not really afraid. I might need to start being afraid of cottonmouths!


33 posted on 09/17/2008 10:17:53 AM PDT by 21twelve (Don't wish for peace. Pray for Victory.)
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To: Rebelbase

I so hate cottonmouths. It’s one snake you can smell when its close. Kill everyone of them I see.


34 posted on 09/17/2008 10:18:27 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (When a Rothschild says they don't like you because you're too elitist, you know you're screwed!)
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To: DogBarkTree

I’ve encountered them a few times, but only on land and found them to be rather timid there. Was within about 18 inches of one this past summer before I realized what was going on. It stayed perfectly still as I backed up and slithered off quite fast as soon as I turned my eyes from it.


35 posted on 09/17/2008 10:19:33 AM PDT by green iguana (FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: maine-iac7

SF train for ALL conflicts, not just the headline grabbing ones. Had a compatriot just complete SF Q course and is sporting the Green Beret now. He was violently ill for almost three weeks because of e-coli poisoning and still had events to complete. He managed to complete it while losing about 30 pounds.


36 posted on 09/17/2008 10:19:40 AM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascists inside and outside our borders, now ACT LIKE IT!)
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To: wardaddy

The nest you describe is most likely a bunch of males swarming over one female. Cotton Mouth Gangbang.


37 posted on 09/17/2008 10:20:11 AM PDT by DogBarkTree (That sharp pain to the LibRat's groin is called the Palin Effect.)
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To: BuffaloJack

“one morning one had come up through the septic system and was in the toilet.”

Not a pretty thought.


38 posted on 09/17/2008 10:21:47 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Rebelbase
We had cottonmouths around our backyard creek area all during my childhood. Very dangerous snake, and I was always afraid of them because they are camo'd so well.

Prayers for the family of this serviceman.

39 posted on 09/17/2008 10:25:30 AM PDT by Jackknife ( "The Bureau of Alcohol,Tobacco, and Firearms should be a department store, not a gov't agency.")
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To: DogBarkTree
BTW, "aggression" is a relative value. They really aren't in the category of, for example, black mambas.

The biggest problem with that snake is when a snake dealer lets one of 'em loose in the neighborhood. First folks to move to a motel for the night while the cops, et al, hunt for the snake are the Africans and the Indians.

They know.

Compared to a copperhead dozing under leaves in late Fall in Southern Indiana, a cottonmouth is probably quite aggressive.

40 posted on 09/17/2008 10:33:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: mbynack

Hmm ~ and how fast was that snake “chasing”?


41 posted on 09/17/2008 10:35:43 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rebelbase

I thought you still had to be Spec 4 or higher just to attend Q course. Did that change?


42 posted on 09/17/2008 10:37:49 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (Conservatives are to McCain what Charlie Brown is to Lucy.)
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To: poobear

Please forgive my ignorance.
Can you tell me the type of water your friend got caught in?
For instance ,clear lake, murky lake, sort of swampy or what?
I am constantly in the water and would care to avoid these critters.
Sorry for the soldier heros death,
Prayers for him and his family.


43 posted on 09/17/2008 10:46:34 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Rebelbase

I’ve killed several of these over the past few years in my yard in Tampa. Usually a steel rake does the job. Last year, my dog killed one (almost, I finished it off). Not sure how he did it, but RikiTikiTavi comes to mind, only in the shape of a 95lb. Belgian Malinois.


44 posted on 09/17/2008 10:50:07 AM PDT by grayhog
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To: fso301

I believe the young man was in SF selection - which means he hadn’t entered training yet. Land nav is done at night and by themselves...he was probably far from any help.

My son has been through SF selection.


45 posted on 09/17/2008 10:58:57 AM PDT by repubmom (Proud Army Mom of two soldiers - Psalm 91)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Yes - they take PFC soldiers into selection. They enter the army through MOS 18x - Ft. Benning basic, Airborne and then to Ft. Bragg for Selection prep and then Selection. The x in 18 is replaced by the MOS they select once they get through selection and other training they have to go through. Both of my sons entered the army with an 18x contract.


46 posted on 09/17/2008 11:02:13 AM PDT by repubmom (Proud Army Mom of two soldiers - Psalm 91)
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To: yarddog

“I remember back in the late 50’s or maybe 60’s an Army Ranger training at Eglin AFB was bitten by a coral snake.”


In basic at Ft.Polk the instruction for most snake bites, the Rattler, the Cottonmouth, and the Copperhead was to summon a drill Sargent immediately in an effort to save our life, they also instructed us that if we were bit by a Coral snake, to just sit down, light a cigarette and die.


47 posted on 09/17/2008 11:05:13 AM PDT by ansel12 (There will be more than one "October surprise" this time. Count on it.)
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To: Rebelbase
I grew up in northeastern NC. It was standard procedure when working in the woods or fishing under overhanging branches to carry a pistol loaded with snake-shot, just in case you ran into a problem with one of these bastards. Cottonmouths are nasty, do not do you the courtesy of warning you with a rattle, and are not to be trifled with.

Prayers for this young soldier's family...

48 posted on 09/17/2008 11:09:51 AM PDT by Jonah Hex ("Never underestimate the hungover side of the Force.")
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To: muawiyah

“They are not particularly aggressive, but you can run into them in the darndest places.”

I’ve had them try to crawl in the boat with me. I had one crawl out on the bank next to me when I was night fishing. When I turned my light on it was looking at me with a bream in it’s mouth. It was a Jerry Clower moment that caused me to ruin a good fishing rod.


49 posted on 09/17/2008 11:10:17 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: muawiyah
Hmm ~ and how fast was that snake “chasing”? Fast enough so my brother in law had to trot to keep ahead of it.
50 posted on 09/17/2008 11:11:46 AM PDT by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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