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Stop Trading!: Financial Terrorism?
CNBC ^ | Tom Brennan - CNBC

Posted on 09/18/2008 8:20:51 PM PDT by balls

The damage being done to stocks through short selling, where Wall Street’s most legendary institutions are losing value at alarming rates, could be the work of financial terrorism.

Cramer’s been talking to the short sellers he knows, and that’s the theory they’ve been putting forward. His sources said that it’s doubtful that the market’s traditional short sellers are behind the negative action we’ve seen lately. So there is the possibility that someone else has been trying to wreak havoc in the markets rather than just profit from the problems of Goldman Sachs [GS 108.00 -6.50 (-5.68%) ], Morgan Stanley [MS 22.55 0.80 (+3.68%) ] and others.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banks; economy; govwatch; housingbubble; sabotage; shortselling; wallstreet; wot
I've been thinking for a while that terrorism is behind the current market crisis.
1 posted on 09/18/2008 8:20:52 PM PDT by balls
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To: balls

Is this the kind of thing Soros could do?


2 posted on 09/18/2008 8:22:56 PM PDT by Humble Servant (SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!)
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To: balls

Obama backer Soros?


3 posted on 09/18/2008 8:23:10 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (No longer holding my nose to vote - McCain/Palin 2008!)
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To: balls

I think it could be terrorism.

Or - at least opportunistic terrorism, i.e., they already saw a problem, but decided to accentuate it.


4 posted on 09/18/2008 8:23:12 PM PDT by RockinRight (Obama who?)
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To: balls

I think it could be terrorism.

Or - at least opportunistic terrorism, i.e., they already saw a problem, but decided to accentuate it.


5 posted on 09/18/2008 8:23:13 PM PDT by RockinRight (Obama who?)
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To: balls

I was thinking the same (but more related to the election) and posted a thread on this yesterday.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2084505/posts


6 posted on 09/18/2008 8:26:26 PM PDT by koraz
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To: balls
“Just bring back the old rules,” Cramer said. “They worked for a long time.”

Well, if true and they're not in it for profit, the old rules won't work either.

Ban short selling by foreigners?

7 posted on 09/18/2008 8:26:46 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: balls

Instead of dumping, move to under priced investments. Do people realize how cheap MSFT and other stocks are right now? Microsoft, for example, has more raw cash on hand than outstanding share value.. Remember the Jack Welch philosophy- when people panic, buy. When people are greedy, sell..


8 posted on 09/18/2008 8:29:04 PM PDT by mnehring (Maverick/Barracuda 2008)
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To: RockinRight

I sell short. I don’t like it but with volatility the way it is, my investors depend on it. We are up this month and this week as a result. We maintain a 50/50 long short position and use SPYDERS to fill in the void. We don’t speculate by driving down shorts on news. We short poorly performing stocks that are temporarily over valued. Greenspan said Sunday that short sellers are necessary in normal conditions to maintain a realistically priced market. The problem we have now, and why there are so many bubbles are that hedge fund managers are so desperate for a quick score so they can make their hurdles and get huge payouts that they are running from new idea to new idea and piling on. The guys driving down the financial stocks are the same ones who brought you $147 oil two months ago. It’s a need for performance and a lack of proprietary ideas.


9 posted on 09/18/2008 8:29:45 PM PDT by johnnycap
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To: balls

The problem is not shorting, but ineffective enforcement of existing rules against naked shorting.

We should resist calls to put bandaids on the problem. The uptick rule qualifies as a bandaid.


10 posted on 09/18/2008 8:30:20 PM PDT by Tax Government (Elect Obama's Teleprompter)
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To: balls
It crossed my mind that Russia might have a hand in this since they closed their stock market down a couple of days ago...

...to protect themselves from a meltdown they knew was coming?

11 posted on 09/18/2008 8:30:40 PM PDT by what's up
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I would bet its the work of GEORGE SOROS.

It would not be the first time he has minipulted a country’s money system. He is cancer.


12 posted on 09/18/2008 8:31:16 PM PDT by ncfool (Obama --- "Jihad is the only true Muslim way")
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To: LibWhacker

How can foreigners be prevented from trading? Punishment after the fact won’t work for many reasons.


13 posted on 09/18/2008 8:32:25 PM PDT by balls (Never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate)
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To: balls

Gee, I certainly hope the trail doesn’t lead back to our pals the Saudis.


14 posted on 09/18/2008 8:32:29 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: balls
When fundamental financial principle's are no longer followed, but, rather, considered quaint and old fashioned. then we become vulnerable to exactly what is happening now.
15 posted on 09/18/2008 8:33:04 PM PDT by MCCRon58 (Freedom does not mean you are free from the consequences of your own freely made decisions.)
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To: balls

McCain is right that Chris Cox should go.

He seemed like a decent guy, but as head of the SEC he has been an incompetent.

He abolished the downtick rule for short trading at the worst possible time, and he has failed to punish those who are behind massive “naked shorting,” which is illegal.

Now he has apparently agreed to “temporarily” end all shorting. That will be a disaster.

As I said, I don’t have any idea WHY he has done all this, but he really needs to be replaced for his stupid handling of this crisis.


16 posted on 09/18/2008 8:33:17 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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I would bet its the work of GEORGE SOROS.

It would not be the first time he has minipulted a country’s money system. He is cancer.


17 posted on 09/18/2008 8:34:57 PM PDT by ncfool (Obama --- "Jihad is the only true Muslim way")
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To: balls

Soros


18 posted on 09/18/2008 8:36:46 PM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: balls

Gee, I certainly hope the trail doesn’t lead back to our pals the Saudis.


19 posted on 09/18/2008 8:37:34 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: ncfool

The alarming thing of this is that even if is not the work of Soros, or anyone else who would like to take us out, it could have been! We need to look at this from a national securtity standpoint.


20 posted on 09/18/2008 8:38:09 PM PDT by balls (Never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate)
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To: Humble Servant

No, more like the Chinese IMO.


21 posted on 09/18/2008 8:41:48 PM PDT by valkyry1 (McCain/Palin 2008)
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To: jennyjenny

The Soros angle is interesting and plausible.


22 posted on 09/18/2008 8:42:13 PM PDT by SteveAustin
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To: balls
How can foreigners be prevented from trading?

Don't know. I leave that to people who know a heck of a lot more about it than me... but how about, for starters, forbidding floor traders and US-based brokers from accepting trades from overseas accounts?

Not trying to punish anyone after the fact (though the courts do that all the time), I'm just trying to figure out how to prevent terrorists from continuing what Cramer says they're doing, or prevent them from doing something worse in the future.

23 posted on 09/18/2008 8:44:47 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: johnnycap

“The problem we have now, and why there are so many bubbles are that hedge fund managers are so desperate for a quick score so they can make their hurdles and get huge payouts that they are running from new idea to new idea and piling on. The guys driving down the financial stocks are the same ones who brought you $147 oil two months ago. It’s a need for performance and a lack of proprietary ideas.”

But we have posters on here who say that speculators perform a useful function in the futures market, that all trading is speculation and that speculators could not have driven oil prices to $147.00, that the prices reflect real supply and demand.

I believe you’e probably correct, but actual traders defend their preferred tactics and say they are not the problem.

There needs to be some independent investigation of this, and I think there are many trading and speculative tactics that need to be ended, because the financial markets have become far too much a casino for speculators, and combined with the subprime problem, they have created the worst financial crisis in many decades. And both Democrats and Republicans have made big contributions to this.


24 posted on 09/18/2008 8:54:31 PM PDT by Will88
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To: All

And from some of the comments, it seems the markets have no way of knowing who is behind many of the transactions.


25 posted on 09/18/2008 8:56:40 PM PDT by Will88
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To: what's up
It crossed my mind that Russia might have a hand in this since they closed their stock market down a couple of days ago... ...to protect themselves from a meltdown they knew was coming?

What information would the Russians have?

26 posted on 09/18/2008 9:00:41 PM PDT by GOPJ (Obama was second (of all senators) in total donations from Freddie and Frannie.)
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To: Will88

True, as a buyer or seller, you don’t know who’s on the other side of the trade. But your broker damn sure knows who you are.


27 posted on 09/18/2008 9:01:17 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: GOPJ
A group of naked shorters came from somewhere to take down Morgan Stanley today. In the article, Cramer says they seem to have come from somewhere other than the traditional short sellers.

An attack from Russia? Iran? Bin Laden (in fact, he did warn of a financial terror attack a few days ago, I believe.) Probably the same gang who's been working AIG & Lehman. Morgan would be a great prize for them...a scion of American capitalism.

I was working this conspiracy theory in my mind earlier today. Imagine my surprise to find the Great Cramer thinking the same thing.

28 posted on 09/18/2008 9:05:38 PM PDT by what's up
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: LibWhacker

Some were making the point in this thread that they don’t know who is conducting the high volume of short selling. I guess they meant that they as individuals don’t know, and apparently the markets haven’t seen fit to find out to this point.


30 posted on 09/18/2008 9:13:54 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Inyo-Mono
Obama backer Soros?

No, no it not Obama's fault, it's not Bush's fault, it's not Soro's fault, it's not Congresses fault, it's not the SEC's fault, it's not the Federal Reserves fault, not Palin's fault, it's not the banks fault, not Clinton's fault, not Wall Streets fault...

You think any of these people controlling and managing this disaster would resign?

Not a freaking chance.

31 posted on 09/18/2008 9:14:46 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: what's up

I know nothing about economics or financial matters but I have wondered for a long time if people wanting Obama in could manipulate the market.


32 posted on 09/18/2008 9:14:55 PM PDT by Notasoccermom (.)
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To: Notasoccermom
I have also felt some kind of manipulation was coming for months...what better time than now that McCain is drawing neck and neck?

Bin Laden & his ilk (the Russians too) can't stand the thought of McCain winning. I will not be surprised if Andrew Cuomo finds out terror is at play here.

33 posted on 09/18/2008 9:20:44 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Notasoccermom

We’ve been talking about that over here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2085555/posts


34 posted on 09/18/2008 9:20:44 PM PDT by sonrise57 (Help us God for evil men have surrounded us.)
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To: balls

this crisis is a lot of STOCK MARKET BULL SHEET.

Today the DOW has gone down from around 14,000 to 11,000. 3k. Around 21 percent. From Oct. 2007 to present.

Consider that in the 2000 - 2002 time span the market lost 36 percent. Included in this was the worst terrorist attack in US history.
From around 11,700 to 7,800. 4k.

It was much worse then and we didn’t have the Government freaking out and handing out almost a trillion bucks and taking on more trillions worth of loans.

But this time its during a Presidential Election!
....this time the congress is controlled by democrats
....this time the ability to short stocks is much greater because the democrats got rid of the UPTICK RULE....
- it required that a short sale be made only at a price “higher than the last different price.” In other words, you couldn’t short a stock unless it first ticked up an eighth- or a quarter-point.

Thursday - short selling of financial stocks has been banned in Britain

If before
the DOW dropped 36 percent from 11000 and we survived,
.. yet now we drop 21 percent from 14000 and we are worse off?


35 posted on 09/18/2008 9:34:22 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: TomasUSMC
21 percent from 14000 is fine. The problem is this week there is/was a concerted effort to drop it down into the 8000's!

There has been a real attempt this week to destroy some of the financial bastions of the economy. There was starting to be talk of CD's being less than they were bought for, FDIC not able to cover bank accounts, etc. And the shorts were making it seem like these stocks were going down on valuation, instead of just plain abusing short trading. Runs on banks could have been one of the next steps if the Gov't was seen to be standing idly by.

We're not out of the woods yet, but we're starting to address the meat and potatoes of the problems now. Thank God.

36 posted on 09/18/2008 9:48:57 PM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up

I have read the Russian markets have lost close to 50% value of late.


37 posted on 09/18/2008 10:00:19 PM PDT by balk (thefightnetwork.com)
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To: Notasoccermom
>>>...but I have wondered for a long time if people wanting Obama in could manipulate the market.<<<

I wouldn't rule anything out from a crowd that supports a treasonous SOB that tried to delay withdrawal of American troops from Iraq to make it appear Bush's surge policy was a failure!!

38 posted on 09/18/2008 10:01:45 PM PDT by HardStarboard
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To: balk

That’s true.


39 posted on 09/18/2008 10:03:37 PM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up

Do you think that Up Tick rule being eliminated in 2007 makes any difference?

I never have thought much of short selling. If you want to sell a stock sell it, but shorting has always seemed a stretch to me.


40 posted on 09/18/2008 10:18:27 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: TomasUSMC
The uptick rule slows down short selling.

When there's no uptick, it's much easier to pile on and drive a stock down.

You can make a lot of money shorting a stock. You can make money in a downturn, not just an "up" market.

There's nothing wrong with shorting a stock per se within reason. But this week you had people driving bad news abusively in order to short and make money on a stock's demise.

41 posted on 09/18/2008 10:49:36 PM PDT by what's up
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To: balls

B.S.

Decades of irresponsible lifestyle and manipulation and inept regulators is what caused this. It is like the S&L crisis only much,MUCH worse. That wasn’t terrorism either.

I don’t think people really realize just how impactive the credit meltdown can be. And it will get MUCH worse in the next few years.

Remember “1929” was actually “1929 through 1933”. That is one of the reasons I have mixed emotions about Obama not winning this next election. I would really like a democrat in the White House while this nation (and the world) melts down.

My biggest concern, actually, is that the last one gave us that 1939-1945 nastiness. If this one get’s to that level, we really WILL be looking at events at the Biblical prophesy level.

But then, why should that be a concern? Things have to get worse before they get better.


42 posted on 09/18/2008 10:55:58 PM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: what's up

The problem is this week there is/was a concerted effort to drop it down into the 8000’s!
/////////////

Even if TODAY we dropped back down to 7,800 we would still be 6000 points HIGHER than we were in 1988. (In 1988 the DOW finally broke the 2000 barrier)

We’d be 4000 points higher than we were in 1994.
We’d be right were we were in 2003.

Losing 5 years is bad but not the end of the world IMO.

maybe
The real problem is that tens of millions of people have made lots of money gambling in this (stock market) Casino, they lost it, took out loans with loan sharks, can’t pay up and ....and....

AND WANT DECENT FOLK TO BAIL THEM OUT OF THE BEATING THEY’RE GONNA GET!

tough love
Now them Russian boys THEY got problems. But you know, I bet the Georgians will be willing to loan ‘em something.

Semper Fi


43 posted on 09/18/2008 11:09:45 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: TomasUSMC
AND WANT DECENT FOLK TO BAIL THEM OUT

These decent folk are the very ones who would suffer tremendously if the DOW took a drop to 8,000 in a matter of days without recovering.

Banks would fail, unemployment would rise, the defiicit would grow even higher, economic hopelessness would prevail, and the hope of recovery would be far in the future.

We don't want to go there.

44 posted on 09/18/2008 11:25:18 PM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up

Ok well we shall see. Sure be nice seeing SOMEBODY responsible for this go to jail instead of getting bailed out. It seems to me the only ones having to pay are the taxpayers in general.

Have a good night thanks for the comms.


45 posted on 09/18/2008 11:40:47 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: TomasUSMC
Well, I do have to say I wouldn't mind Franklin Raines (Clinton's guy) of Fannie Mae getting thrown in jail.

Good night to you too.

46 posted on 09/18/2008 11:51:09 PM PDT by what's up
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To: balls

bttt


47 posted on 09/19/2008 6:02:02 PM PDT by Guenevere
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