Posted on 09/26/2008 2:30:19 AM PDT by library user
Let’s do a reality check on the spending spree the U.S. Treasury is currently on:
....of course this sum includes the illegals right?
is he insane? and how many of those are adults that work and pay taxes?
McQueen doesn’t get it. Anytime Congress injects taxpayer money into the economy to aid failing businesses means the tentacles of socialism have grown a little longer.
2/3’s of the population don”t pay taxes, it more like $10k per person, household of 4 = 40k. We are running deficits so we are not retiring debt. 20 years from now I’ll probably eating rats. I hope I’m still fast enough to catch them.
Current running total: $1,014 billion
Current U.S. population: 305 million
Number of taxpayers whose tax dollars should be taken to pay for the irresponsibility of others: 0
Maximum amount that can ethically be taken from productive citizens to pay for losses by those acting irresponsibly: $0.00
Total cost if the bailout is done correctly: $0.00
I can't think of a better fix for our financial system than allowing people to reap what they have sown. THose who gambled and lost will learn nothing if they are bailed out, and the problems will recur. In contrast, if the markets are allowed to work, lenders will make responsible decisions in the future based on an honest assessment of the risks, and our economy will function even better in the future.
The truth is that the Democrats killed the bailout so they could blame failure on McCain or at least keep him from getting credit. Like a stopped clock that's right twice a day, the Dems got it right when they delayed this bill.
I am always in favor of less rather then more govt, but that said I think this whole thing is being misrepresented here and in other places.
My understanding and correct me if I am wrong, is that the money is being used to purchase assets which will have a definite value because they are all backed up by real property. Since these assets can at some point be sold, perhaps not for a profit but certainly not for a 100% loss (I know, that’s not possible), at least some if not all of the money may be returned to the treasury as has happened in the past when such bail outs have occurred (Mexico, Chrysler).
WE would not be handing the money to the companies in trouble but rather would be buying their currently non performing assets thereby allowing them to resume their operations. With the proper new regulations put in place to stop this from again happening, things ought to work out for the best.
Where am I wrong?
I doubt it. They are not that organized and if they cannot come up with absolute proof John McCain said this or did that to hurt the proposals passage they simply look like obstructors again.
Also, again there could be other forces at play here - people in the financial industry falling prey to greed resulting in mismanagement/theft. Will government takeover remove this problem? I don't know. My worry is that this financial mess will screw up an awful lot of 401Ks etc. and create a greater dependency on the already insolvent Social Security system.
As I understand it, I think you have it pretty much correct. As you, I would prefer that the government not be involved in this but frankly I don't see any other viable solution. I do have a concern with the part about returning money to the Treasury as I have not heard anyone state what happens to the money after it has been returned. As I understand it, this $700B will be funded by printing more money. So, it seems to me that the only was to retire this funding would be by removing the equivalent amount from circulation. But, what will be the chances of this happening? Zero...
only about 40% of the US population files and pays taxes
.
But we pay for affirmative action types such as Rangel that don’t pay their share.
and we pay, and pay, and pay
You may be absolutely right. However, if you remove risk you also remove reward. The "American Dream" has always been the potential for US citizens to realize those rewards (owning one's own home, etc).
The bailout isn't the end of the US - it's only the end of the American Dream. All brought to you by the fine members of the "I Got Mine Club".
Not entirely correct. The proposed plan calls for the US government to buy failing "mortage backed securities" from ailing financial institutions. A mortage backed security is not the same as a mortage. It's basically an "asset" whose value is backed by underlying debt. The owner of the security does not have any claim on the underlying collateral (property), only a claim on whoever packaged the security. A lot of the panic around Lehman folding is because many other banks and funds were holding mortage backed instruments issued by Lehman, all of which are now worthless since Lehman is bankrupt. This is my main concern about the current bailout plan. The government should, if anything, be buying up the mortages themselves. They should absolutely not be buying up any derived instruments.
Only about half of our great citizens participate in tax paying. So it’s about $800 per year, and that is after tax money( yes, you will be taxed, and then the money left over, will pay the tax ) So, you have to earn $1,600 more for the next ten years.
Oh, and by the way, as the economy slows, towns and states will be raising your taxes because of ‘diminished returns’.
Have a nice day.
Half the population is under 18 or retired. Then only half of the working population pays no taxes. So only 1/4 of the population pay taxes.
It’s more like 12K per taxpayer.
Mark McQueen is an a$$ and an idiot. He says it’s “only” $3324 per person? In my family, we have 5 people and ONE INCOME. We don’t spend three thousand dollars on a week long vacation, much less $3K per PERSON per weekend!
This butthole believes I should fork over $16,620.00 to pay off bad debt accumulated by people who do go and spend $3K per weekend?!?
What an a$$!
“2/3’s of the population don”t pay taxes, it more like $10k per person, household of 4 = 40k. We are running deficits so we are not retiring debt. 20 years from now I’ll probably eating rats.”
Don’t think so. The Libs running your district will tell you that eating rats causes cancer and will take them off the menu at your favorite restaurant. But don’t worry, by then tobacco will be back at 45 bucks a pack, with 43 going to the government.
Current running total: $1,014 billion.
The numerator is too low, but what is really wrong is the denominator. There are about 125 million taxpayers in the USA, so first, you don't divide by 305 million, you divide by 125 million, so it's 1014/125 per taxpayer = $8112.
BUT WAIT. This is wrong too because half of the so called "taxpayers" don't pay any taxes so you really divide 1014 by 62.5 giving $16,224 per paying taxpayer,
BUT WAIT. That's wrong too since the top 1% of taxpayers pay 30% of the taxes so (.3*1014)/1.25 is the cost to the hardest working group or they get to pay $243,000 each to the friends of big government who caused this mess.
I’m with you on this - look at post #21 to see who has real pain. This is just part of the propaganda from the evil alliance between big government and big business designed to screw you out or your cash while they relax on their yachts. The top 1% of taxpayers will get hit a quarter of a million dollars on this. Now I don’t know about you, but I scrimped and saved and did without to pay off my mortgage, why the hell should my money go to pay someone else who didn’t scrimp and save’s debt? F... Bush and Kongress.
But the mortgage backed security is as it implies BACKED or collateralized by the mortgage which liens the real property.
The problem as I understand it is that these mortgage “packages” that were sold contain good as well as bad loans and the problem is no one knows what pkgs have what bad mortgages in them. In a worst case scenario 20% of ALL mortgages go bad and if that is the case then 80% do not. This means that if the gov’t lays out 700 Billion it will recoup 80% or 560 Billion. It will be a 140 Billion hit but not nearly as bad as the 700 Billion number being tossed about.
Why give my $3K to the homeless so he can have a happy life, why not give my $3K to the single mother of 4 or a out of work union employee or my next door neighbor. Hell I got an idea, why don't I become a disadvantage person and everyone else can start sending their $3K to me. Man, I hate socialist.
The devil is in the derivatives and credit debt swaps.
Even finding the good and bad loans that were packaged and sold will be a challenge. I suspect record keeping may not be “up to code”.
The subprime primer - financial meltdown explained with stick figures. Slide show - use arrows at the bottom left of page to advance slides.
http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true&pli=1
From what I’ve read, you are correct.
Tell me something, though. Weren’t all the sub prime and ARM mortgage derivatives sold in bulk? If so, some of them would be good and will be repaid.
In any event, I’ve read that the government will use them as a base to sell bonds, thus making a profit from them, which would greatly reduce the bailout cost to the taxpayers down the line. (Providing the Dems don’t use the income to spend more of our OUR money.)
Something else that bothers me is that the Dems are now asking for banks to stop paying interest on deposits in order to reduce the banks’ debts. HEY, I need that interest to pay my bills. And think of all the elderly who saved, and did w/o to have money for their old age who will end up on Welfare.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.