Posted on 09/26/2008 7:56:27 AM PDT by mbarker12474
Controversy stirs over state police ruling on prayer By CHELYEN DAVIS [in the Free-Lance Star newspaper of Fredericksburg, VA]
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/092008/09262008/413698
Date published: 9/26/2008
RICHMOND--
A Fredericksburg court case has set off a flurry of accusations between Republicans and Democrats over public prayer.
The U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals recently upheld a Fredericksburg City Council ban on referring to Jesus Christ in public prayers that open council meetings.
So Virginia State Police Superintendent Col. Steve Flaherty directed state police chaplains to avoid references to Christ in their public prayers--they were told to use nondenominational prayers in public, although they could still refer to Christ in private counseling or at funerals. Six chaplains resigned their volunteer chaplain roles over the issue.
This week two Republican delegates accused Gov. Tim Kaine and Flaherty of an "attack on Christianity" for the directive. Kaine and other Democrats responded by accusing the Republicans of playing politics.
"With one misguided action, the Kaine administration has put the chaplains in an impossible position," said House Majority Leader Del. Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, in a press release. "When troopers take on the added responsibility of serving as chaplains, they reinforce their commitment to serve the public. To then require those troopers to disregard their own faith while serving violates their First Amendment rights and prevents them from serving effectively as chaplains. These men had little choice but to resign."
Kaine said if Griffith had serious concerns, he'd have spoken to Kaine about them himself.
"[Griffith] has no facts to justify that, and I had just met with Morgan for two hours the previous day and if he had anything on his mind, he sure could have brought it up but he didn't," Kaine told reporters. "When somebody does something where the first thing I hear about it is a press release, rather than just calling me and saying 'hey governor, I've got a problem, can you help me here,' they don't care about the issue, they just care about politics."
Kaine said Flaherty was simply abiding by the court ruling, and he supports Flaherty's decision.
"Col. Flaherty read what that legal opinion did and gave some common-sense advice to his folks but I had nothing to do with it," Kaine said. "I am a very devout Christian and Catholic, I would never do anything to inhibit anybody's religious worship it doesn't diminish my ability to worship my God to pray to the father or lord without mentioning Jesus Christ."
Kaine said the Fredericksburg ruling "provided a clear test of whether prayers at such events are governmental speech," and that prayers at public state police events, such as trooper graduations, "clearly meet that test."
Griffith disagrees. He does not think the Fredericksburg ruling applies in this case, because the state police are not a governing body. Instead, Griffith thinks the situation is more akin to that of public schools, where a student may lead prayer.
Griffith said he didn't speak to Kaine personally during a budget meeting Tuesday because he had not yet spoken to troopers about the issue.
Del. Bill Carrico, R-Grayson, a former state trooper himself, joined Griffith in criticizing Flaherty's directive to chaplains.
"Colonel Flaherty needs to abandon this attack on Christianity," Carrico wrote. "This decision wasn't based on any complaints about the chaplains, because I've been told there haven't been any. It aggravates me when public servants act unilaterally out of a supposed fear of getting a complaint, instead of actually having to deal with one."
State police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said Flaherty did consult Republican Attorney General Bob McDonnell after chaplains raised concerns, although she could not discuss what advice McDonnell gave him.
Democrats held a conference call with two legislators and two pastors, all of whom also said Griffith and Carrico were trying to create a political issue.
"Morgan ought to know better than to try to make political points out of what the governor has done," said Sen. Don McEachin, D-Henrico.
As an attorney, McEachin said, Griffith "knows that a directive from the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has to be honored."
McEachin said the clerks of the House of Delegates and the state Senate also ask ministers who deliver daily prayers during legislative sessions to stick to ecumenical prayers.
"If it's good enough for the House of Delegates and it's good enough for the state Senate, the governor shouldn't be criticized for doing essentially the same thing," McEachin said.
Carrico and Griffith have promised legislation on the matter in the 2009 legislative session, and Carrico is starting a Web site and online petition to pressure Kaine into reversing Flaherty's directive.
Chelyen Davis: 804/782-9362 Email: cdavis@freelancestar.com
1. It is reasonable for a public, governmental body to have a chaplain or allow an officer of the government to engage in religious speech.
2. It follows from #1, and the First Amendment, that government cannot prevent a chaplain, or an officer of the government making religious speech, the free exercise of that speech.
It’s always an attack on Jesus. And that is because Jesus is the Name Above All Names; there is power in His name. The liberals are ok with mentioning God, because “God” can mean anything in their book, but don’t you dare mention Jesus... They are so contradictory!
If a Muslim got up there and mentioned Muhammad, would they say anything? No. If a Buddhist got up there and mentioned Buddha, would they say anything? No. If a Daoist, Hindu or Shintoist got up there and named one of their gods, would they say anything. No. Why? Because they would be “tolerant.”
Where is the tolerance for Jesus Christ? They liberals have none. They want to move our country towards free-from-Bible-believing-Christianity-socialism and we are well on our way there. God help us all!
"Whatever."
"Let's Eat!"
But they can still use the Name of Jesus as a cuss word, right? That is freedom of speech?
Yeah, you sound really, really devout.
Does this make anybody else cringe?
MM (in TX)
But Peter and John replied, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”
Well - Forbid God? - I hope you Virginia voters are happy with your choices... Enjoy your Macaca!
You are exactly correct: Whenever someone carps about prayer or any other aspect of religion intruding where it shouldn’t, what they’re really against is JESUS. Always. And the reason is simple: He’s the real thing, the only real thing, the only one who poses any threat at all to Lucifer and his agenda. Lucifer knows this full well, and all these people do his bidding on a daily basis, whether they know it or not.
MM
You are so right! You can say any name of any religion and nothing happens, but say Jesus Christ (Bless His Holy Name) and you will get attention, good or bad.
That’s one of my favorite examples of our current society -
You are not allowed to teach, because you are not credentialed,
and you are DEFINITELY not allowed to teach, preach, or speak in Jesus’ name.
These are the ABC’s of “diversity”: Anything But Christianity
The “scent of Christ” always generates a reaction - see Sarah Palin for an example.
2 Corinthians 2:14-18
14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. 15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not, as so many,[a] peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.
Titus 1:15
15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
They can't tell folks to not use the name "Jesus" or "Christ" any more than they can prohibit the names of Buddah, Mohammad, Zarathrustra, etc.
In fact, being jackbooted government thugs, they are PROHIBITED from doing so.
Best they get their heads straight on this issue or they'll be tossed out in the street by an aroused public.
What in the world ever led any of these pukes to image they were Pope-like beings who could set the standards for public worship of any kind.
Gad!
The fact the State Police superintendant is involved in such nonsense leads me and many others to DISTRUST that institution and its officers.
It's their job to protect us from religious fascists like the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals ~ not to call in their help.
It's really no wonder that Obama and Biden are going to visit Fredericksburg. They'll be giggeling and shorking like Beavis and Butthead as they mount the stage to give their marching minions of idiocy their orders.
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