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New AF Dress Coat Left Flapping in the Wind
Defense Tech Website ^ | Sept 18, 2008 | Bryant Jordan

Posted on 09/28/2008 7:09:24 PM PDT by hattend

New AF Dress Coat Left Flapping in the Wind

It could just be that the Air Force is entering an era that, in part, will be defined by what will not be a hot-button issue: uniforms.

"First things first," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz responded Sept. 17 when asked by Military.com whether uniforms -- new ones or modifications to current dress -- will be relegated to the back burner during his tenure.

Schwartz, who had just listened as his major command chiefs offered up a list of things the Air Force needs today-right-now-thank-you-very much -- including new tankers, more manpower, new tankers, upgrades and maintenance to mobility and fighter planes and, oh yeah, new tankers -- said the Air Force has any number of critical programs it must tackle.

Maybe, at some point down the road, when these other things have been taken care of, he said, uniforms may again be on the agenda.

For now, Schwartz does have to deal with proposed uniform changes that he inherited, including the adoption of a new service dress uniform modeled after one worn by legendary airman Hap Arnold.

The Air Force has a long record of changing or tweaking its uniforms. Acting Air Force Secretary Michael B. Donley made a humorous reference to this fact on Monday, the opening day of the Air Force Association's Air and Space Symposium in Washington, D.C. The Air Force dress uniform only recently underwent a change, with the addition of a belt to the jacket, and Donley noted that the last time he worked for the Air Force, as an assistant secretary and then acting secretary in 1993, the uniform went through major changes under then Chief of Staff Merrill McPeak.

He said he would answer questions today about uniforms the same way he answered them back then: "Ask the chief."

Schwartz last month decided to defer until sometime next year a decision on a Hap Arnold-esque service coat. The proposed jacket came out of a 2006 uniform board under Schwartz's predecessor, Gen. T. Michael Moseley.

Some uniform changes have been greeted critically by airmen -- including a proposed blue cammie BDU several years ago -- who argue that the Air Force has more important issues facing it than whether it should have a belt on a service dress jacket or whether BDUs should come with a permanent crease.

The proposed new dress jacket will cost about $125 million to manufacture if it's approved, the Air Force estimated.

-- Bryant Jordan


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: airforce; fugly; michaelmoseley; moseley; northkorean; uniform; usaf
God, the country is possibly on the verge of electing a communist as President and the Air Force wants to model themselves as some kind of North Korean wannabe.

What's happening to our country?


1 posted on 09/28/2008 7:09:24 PM PDT by hattend
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To: hattend

The Air Force seems to be suffering from a major inferiority complex.


2 posted on 09/28/2008 7:12:18 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: hattend

You don’t know your history... those uniforms resemble the Air Service uniforms of Billy Mitchell. I still don’t like them.


3 posted on 09/28/2008 7:12:31 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (Kicking and Screaming into the Kingdom of Heaven!)
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To: hattend

It has been abandoned by it’s citizens.


4 posted on 09/28/2008 7:12:53 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hattend

I do believe that uniform was dropped from consideration......this has to be an old article.


5 posted on 09/28/2008 7:14:03 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: hattend
What's happening to our country?

Getting ready for the Obamamessiah?

Ugh!

6 posted on 09/28/2008 7:14:06 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: hattend
More like a direct copy of the Marine Corps Dress Blues...

I suspect you never were member of the Corps, were you...Only a non-Marine would mistake that uniform for that of the North Koreans.

7 posted on 09/28/2008 7:14:35 PM PDT by Chinstrap61a
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To: hattend

I’d laugh, except we went through the same crap in the Navy. We had some Z-grams that were beauts.


8 posted on 09/28/2008 7:16:12 PM PDT by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: Chinstrap61a

Nope, was not a Marine.

I’ve seen the Marine Dress Uniform and this doesn’t look like it (or as sharp)


9 posted on 09/28/2008 7:21:30 PM PDT by hattend (Obama has gone from voting PRESENT, to not even wanting to BE present! Call me if you need me!)
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To: hattend
God, the country is possibly on the verge of electing a communist as President and the Air Force wants to model themselves as some kind of North Korean wannabe.

ROFLOL

10 posted on 09/28/2008 7:22:02 PM PDT by org.whodat (Republicans should support the SAM Walton business model, and then drill???)
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To: Squantos

The article was dated 10 days ago.

Hopefully, this uniform won’t make it to the finals.

Reading the comments after the article not many people like it.


11 posted on 09/28/2008 7:23:37 PM PDT by hattend (Obama has gone from voting PRESENT, to not even wanting to BE present! Call me if you need me!)
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To: hattend

Two thumbs down here on the new gear.
(Admittedly spoken like the never-served, over-protected citizen that I am.)

It does have some of the lines of some 1920s uniforms.
But what I dislike is what it also looks like.
To my inexpert eye, it looks like a Nehru jacket that didn’t get
the collar finished before showing.
Or maybe something like WWII Soviet garb.

But hey, what do I know about fashion?
I’m NO Tim Gunn!


12 posted on 09/28/2008 7:24:47 PM PDT by VOA
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To: hattend

Looks like something the Salvation Army would wear.

Not knocking the Salvation Army but that just isn’t military!


13 posted on 09/28/2008 7:28:03 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (We're not supporting clean coal --- Joe Biden)
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To: hattend

Oooooh ... it’s Space Command!


14 posted on 09/28/2008 7:28:09 PM PDT by sphinx
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To: hattend

Sounds like the air force budget is about $125 million too high.


15 posted on 09/28/2008 7:28:45 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: hattend

The design looks like something from the 1920s or 1930s. A very “Old School” design. I kinda like it - a bit of a traditional look.


16 posted on 09/28/2008 7:34:45 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: hattend

I was under the impression that the uniform pictured had been dropped from consideration. Hopefully this is mere taunting from beyond the grave!!!


17 posted on 09/28/2008 7:35:17 PM PDT by M203M4 (True Universal Suffrage: Pets of dead illegal-immigrant felons voting Democrat (twice))
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To: hattend; Squantos

OTOH, I think the new USAF “urban tiger stripe” BDUs are pretty snazzy.


18 posted on 09/28/2008 7:37:05 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee
So many designs to try...


19 posted on 09/28/2008 7:38:26 PM PDT by null and void (Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example.-F. de La Rochefoucauld)
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To: hattend

Do we really want our troops looking like the Third Reich? Because that’s the first thing I thought of when I saw this.


20 posted on 09/28/2008 7:42:55 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Army Air Corps; cardinal4

When I was in the Mighty United States Air Force back in the early 1960s, there were several “uniform” mixes. We still had the 505 khakis with shortsleeved shirts, then 1505s, with smaller chevrons; blues with both blouses and Ike jackets; garrison and The Other Kind of hats; sage grey/green fatigues (Army fatigues were also authorized); tan colored dacrons; bush jackets/bermuda shorts/knee high khaki socks/low quarter shoes and pith helmets; and my favorite, the blue wool shirts/trousers, with or without the tie. I missed the era of longsleeved khakis. I always thought that eventually the USAF Class A uniform would evolve into a blue blazer w/slacks, grey, and the insignia of rank would be a lapel pin.


21 posted on 09/28/2008 7:45:28 PM PDT by Ax
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To: hattend
They could always go this route.


22 posted on 09/28/2008 7:45:33 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (McCain/Palin 2008 : Palin the Paladin 2012)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Take a look at the US Army Air Service uniforms and you’ll see a lot of similarities in the design.


23 posted on 09/28/2008 7:46:28 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: null and void
thats easy... Capt.America for the Army, Superman for the AirForce and Aquaman for the Navy...
24 posted on 09/28/2008 7:48:53 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - McCain/Palin'08 = http://www.johnmccain.com/)
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To: hattend

25 posted on 09/28/2008 7:51:01 PM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: hattend

26 posted on 09/28/2008 7:51:03 PM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: Ax
This dress jacket looks a lot like the one worn by the junior officer on the left.


27 posted on 09/28/2008 7:53:11 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Chode

...and the Marines?


28 posted on 09/28/2008 7:53:21 PM PDT by null and void (Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example.-F. de La Rochefoucauld)
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To: null and void
...and the Marines?

The Hulk .... big, green and breaking stuff :)

29 posted on 09/28/2008 7:55:56 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (McCain/Palin 2008 : Palin the Paladin 2012)
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To: Travis McGee

I like my ABU’s, leave the service dress alone. It works.


30 posted on 09/28/2008 7:57:50 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Centurion2000

Hmmmmmmm. That works.


31 posted on 09/28/2008 8:04:55 PM PDT by null and void (Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example.-F. de La Rochefoucauld)
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To: null and void
the Hulk...
32 posted on 09/28/2008 8:04:55 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - McCain/Palin'08 = http://www.johnmccain.com/)
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To: hiho hiho

Nahh, that USAF uniform strikes me as more the work of Battlestar Galactica fans.
http://www.ghostofaflea.com/archives/BattlestarEnding.jpg

The Air Force should just go ahead and base all of their uniforms on the show. :o)
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Uniforms_(RDM)


33 posted on 09/28/2008 8:13:05 PM PDT by Maximum Leader (run from a knife, close on a gun)
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To: Army Air Corps
Only if you change the color to Army green...

I've worn high collar dress uniforms - both 'blouses' (equivalent to this jacket, but with a zipper down the frong and no pockets, fitted to the body) and coatees (the tail coat with oodles of buttons) at VMI - and I have to say they look good but are not particularly comfortable.

34 posted on 09/28/2008 8:25:48 PM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo Arabiam Esse Delendam -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit)
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To: hattend

I kinda like it. Collars and ties are soooo....French.


35 posted on 09/28/2008 8:29:05 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: GAB-1955
The problem is trying to make dark blue look like Army Air Corps. It doesn't work, any more than Gen McPeak's uniform changes. It was ugly. They should go back to olive drab.

AF Mess Dress is pretty sharp because it's so well-tailored, but we called our baggy blue service dress "bus driver suits".

36 posted on 09/28/2008 8:30:11 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: FlyVet
So, what do you think of the uniform worn in this pic?


37 posted on 09/28/2008 8:55:51 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: hattend

A quick reality check is in order.

Over the last 35 odd years I have seen chiefs of staff come and chief of staff go. Most of them truly wanted to make needed changes to our Air Force. All of them quickly learned that needed changes can not happen. They get eaten alive by the REMF staff.

The days of Hap Arnold, Curtis LeMay and other fire breathing paladins are gone. The war time pit bull mentality has been replaced with yapping lap dogs. The bad part is we did it to ourselves starting 30 years ago.

Someone in the mid-1970s decided that AF officers were no longer leaders but managers. I am sorry but I have never met a manager who could order his employees to live in tents, wear “battle rattle”, and if they fail to follow orders fine and confine them. Plus, if things get bad enough, ruin their entire future. But the REFMs that had no idea what combat was about were the “experienced” staff officers that all needed changes had to pass through.

The influence of the REFMs got so bad that the AF designed a special badge to be worn on the uniforms so you can distinguish between senior officer who commanded and one who shuffled paper.

What combat officers that made it to high ranks quickly found out that the only thing they could change during their tour of duty was the uniform. So we have horror story after horror story of unnecessary changes. Remember the early 1980’s dress white and dress blue uniforms “designed to fill the gap between the class A blues and mess dress“? A double knit white uniform, shoes, and hat. ATC was forcing their field grade officers to buy the “Good Humor” uniform before cooler heads prevailed. How about the seams that were stiched into the flight suit because the flight suit didn’t look professional enough? How about silver and gold stars worn on the flight suit cuffs to denote flying hours and combat hours?

And don’t start me on logo wars.

Bottom line - because of the proliferation of REMF staff warriors we have allowed ourselves to become so tied up in paperwork knots that the only changes that a Chief of Staff can accomplish in four years is a new uniform or uniform change! The days of firing subordinates for poor performance are gone - much better to destroy an airplane and kill a crew than “ruin a man’s career.


38 posted on 09/28/2008 8:56:33 PM PDT by Nip (Islam - a religion of piece (your head and life). Truth depends on the spelling)
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To: Army Air Corps
O.D. sure looks a lot better than dark blue trying to look like O.D.

I always thought the other branches had the AF whipped when it comes to dress uniforms. It's too hard to make dark blue look good. They've been tinkering with it for years, and never get it right.

39 posted on 09/28/2008 8:59:04 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: hattend
These work for me:


40 posted on 09/28/2008 9:23:09 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: hattend

Looks like something from a Sci-Fi show....


41 posted on 09/28/2008 9:24:36 PM PDT by Doctor Raoul (Fire the CIA and hire the Free Clinic, someone who knows how to stop leaks.)
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To: Nip
The worst for me was when some of the officers working at USAFE during the Kosovo war were awarded bronze stars...for flying a desk.

They worked long hours and made a difference....but nobody was shooting at them. MSM at most would have been appropriate.

42 posted on 09/28/2008 9:30:39 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

Looks like a WWI Army uniform in the Wrong Color.


43 posted on 09/29/2008 12:59:32 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (I'm Right Guard, here to prevent B. O.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

I’ve seen Air Force E3’S with more ribbons on their dress uniforms than Army E7’S with combat infantry badges, Vietnam Service Ribbons, Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts. I think they give ribbons for using the latrine.


44 posted on 09/29/2008 7:05:41 AM PDT by HenpeckedCon (Deport them all... Let God sort them out!)
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