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Court: Police don't have to pay for damage during raids
seattlepi.com ^ | 2 October, 2008 | LEVI PULKKINEN

Posted on 10/03/2008 3:34:48 AM PDT by marktwain

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To: marktwain

“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson.


41 posted on 10/03/2008 6:39:31 PM PDT by meyer (Go, Sarah, Go!!)
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To: hoosierham
How about the the Bill of Rights;4th admendment and all that?

All fully complied with.

Under these facts, reasonable minds could not differ.

42 posted on 10/03/2008 7:19:57 PM PDT by Mojave
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To: Mojave

I may be a little dense;please explain clearly why it would be reasonable to break and destroy the doors in preference to simply using the offered keys to open the door ?I do not recall the city denying the keys were offered.I think a reasonable person would have to conclude there was an element of “we’ll fix your wagon” vindictiveness in smashing property .Wanton destruction is not the mark of reasonable people.


43 posted on 10/03/2008 8:39:38 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: hoosierham

“However, the evidence submitted by the City establishes that the search was authorized for evidence of methamphetamine manufacture and that such searches are often dangerous. There was also the risk of harm to Mr. Brutsche if he accompanied the officers, as well as the possibility that his presence would hamper or limit the search. The declarations of SRT Commander Villa and Officer Majack, which are largely uncontroverted, show that it was necessary to breach the doors and that James Brutsche’s (Mr. Brutsche’s son’s) actions dictated the need for the officers’ actions. These declarations describe the high risk associated with search warrants for methamphetamine manufacture and the apprehension of individuals in the methamphetamine trade. They explain that James Brutsche was suspected of being involved in the methamphetamine trade, that he tried to barricade himself and another suspect in the mobile home by using a dowel to bar a sliding glass door, and that the officers did not know whether he was arming himself or attempting to rally unknown persons in the home to engage in a fight with police. Further, the declarations describe the danger that evidence would be destroyed before they could search the premises. Villa’s declaration also explains that standard operating procedure is to bar access to search scenes during a search, in part to protect innocent bystanders.”


44 posted on 10/03/2008 9:39:02 PM PDT by Mojave
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To: marktwain
"...Brutsche contends he offered officers keys to the doors before they began knocking them down."

Battering rams don't need keys.

Me thinks he knew where his son's lab was....

45 posted on 10/04/2008 4:45:37 AM PDT by azhenfud (The government is not best which secures life and property-there is a more valuable thing-manhood.)
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To: hoosierham
Because it means when the cops in their macho ninja masks smash your door,kill your pets, and maybe injure or kill you or your loved ones by mistake,"they were just doing their job" and needn't worry about paying.

I reckon had the police found the son's meth lab, there's a chance the son may still be alive and the warehouse it was in not damaged/destroyed. And if you think such manufacturing operation wasn't happening at the time of the raid, yet the son dies in a meth lab fire a year later - exactly what police had searched for, you're yeilding to a rather simplistic opinion.

46 posted on 10/04/2008 5:00:02 AM PDT by azhenfud (The government is not best which secures life and property-there is a more valuable thing-manhood.)
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To: libertylover
So if you've got a McCain lawn sign and Obama sends in the police (see yesterday's postings) to tear up your home, that's just tough. Brilliant ruling /s.

Who will be cleaning up "Obama's police" (read demoncrat Gestapo) when they come to my door?

*I* sure won't pay for the cleanup.

47 posted on 10/04/2008 5:04:09 AM PDT by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: Mojave
I simply don't buy most of this;IF the drug manufacturing operation is so small that all evidence may be destroyed in the time it takes to open a door using a key rather than a battering ram,then it was too small to pose a great danger to anyone.

And he blocked the sliding glass doors with a WOODEN DOWEL? My gosh,what a dangerous weapon! By the way,using a dowel in the track of patio doors has been recommended to homeowners for decades ,by the police and news or magazine articles on home security.The police also used to advise getting a dog to provide warning and some protection rather than a gun;but now the police are killing the family dog because it might pose a threat to officer safety!?

Interesting that some feel the very act of securing one's premises from intruders is sufficient to establish criminality of the property owner.

Let me once again state my firm opinion that most of these no-knock,SWAT and battering ram escapades are little more than an excuse for some cops to "play army".

The same laws that disregard the rights of those you don't like today can be used against YOU tomorrow.

No doubt,if all citizen homes could be opened by a passkey held only? by the authorities then there would be little crime,as it would be detected by the random searches .Although having to put all your stuff back in its place after the searchers have left could get annoying.Did you know the police practically trash a trucker's road tractor when searching,and don't put things back as they found it? I have this from several truckers who were searched ,and made late for deliveries because of having to put the seats back in ,replace all their belongings in the various storage bins,and so on.And locally ,we haven't forgotten the policemen who,having been told of a businessman going on vacation,gave his home special attention:they burglarized it!

Those with special powers must be held to the highest standards of behavior,and I submit encouraging property destruction and brutality does not.

I do not hate all police;I abhor the militarization of the police and the robberies where money and property are taken when the owner is not convicted of any crime.

48 posted on 10/04/2008 8:37:52 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: hoosierham
it was too small to pose a great danger to anyone.

I'll call your bluff. Prove it.

And he blocked the sliding glass doors with a WOODEN DOWEL?

THEY, the two drug dealers, blocked the door, rendering a key useless.

Interesting that some feel the very act of securing one's premises from intruders is sufficient to establish criminality of the property owner.

Running inside and barricading the doors to evade police is "securing one's premises?" What a lame premise.

No doubt,if all citizen homes could be opened by a passkey held only?

Meth and paranoia go together.

49 posted on 10/04/2008 8:49:23 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: ex-Texan
Paulson and his Goldman Sachs cohorts have unleashed a form of Big Banking Nazism on America, and technically the interconnected financial world, thanks to the majority of cowardly bought off rubber stamps in both houses of Congress. A pack of greedy insiders have really stupped the voting public!

And I voted for him twice ....nice, real nice ...

50 posted on 10/04/2008 10:37:12 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is not 'free'.)
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To: Mojave
You obviously love excerpting others' posting in such a way as to obscure the original intent;and you seem to love calling anyone daring to disagree with your desired police state a drug addict.

You know well proving a negative is near to impossible.

51 posted on 10/04/2008 10:38:23 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: hoosierham
desired police state

Anarchist tripe.

52 posted on 10/04/2008 11:01:55 PM PDT by Mojave
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To: Joe Brower

I thought I was on the Wrong House List, but apparently not. Would you please add me?


53 posted on 12/08/2008 5:53:15 AM PST by Titan Magroyne ("Drill now drill hard drill often and give old Gaia a cigarette afterwards she deserves it." HerrBlu)
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To: Titan Magroyne
I maintain a private RKBA list, although ending up in the wrong house appears to be more and more of a possibility, these days.

You've been added.

54 posted on 12/08/2008 6:41:45 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Joe Brower

Thank you. Nice tagline, BTW.


55 posted on 12/08/2008 7:19:21 AM PST by Titan Magroyne ("Drill now drill hard drill often and give old Gaia a cigarette afterwards she deserves it." HerrBlu)
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