Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Atheists Sue President Over National Prayer Day
Fox News ^ | October 3, 2008 | Associated Press

Posted on 10/04/2008 2:27:00 AM PDT by AndyTheBear

MADISON, Wis. — The nation's largest group of atheists and agnostics is suing President Bush, the governor of Wisconsin and other officials over the federal law designating a National Day of Prayer.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: agnostics; americanheritage; antiamerican; antichristian; atheists; christianheritage; lawsuit; natldayofprayer; ndop; prayer
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-112 next last
If they win the suit, our nation won't have a prayer.
1 posted on 10/04/2008 2:27:01 AM PDT by AndyTheBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear
As an atheist myself, I have to wonder--if Obama were president, and the national prayer day existed, would they sue him?

Yes, it's a rhetorical question.

2 posted on 10/04/2008 2:31:09 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (I've got a bracelet, too. From Sergeant..... uuuuuuuhhhhhhh...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

Note: The following text is a quote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/04/20080422-6.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
April 22, 2008

National Day of Prayer, 2008

White House News
En Español
A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America

America trusts in the abiding power of prayer and asks for the wisdom to discern God’s will in times of joy and of trial. As we observe this National Day of Prayer, we recognize our dependence on the Almighty, we thank Him for the many blessings He has bestowed upon us, and we put our country’s future in His hands.

From our Nation’s humble beginnings, prayer has guided our leaders and played a vital role in the life and history of the United States. Americans of many different faiths share the profound conviction that God listens to the voice of His children and pours His grace upon those who seek Him in prayer. By surrendering our lives to our loving Father, we learn to serve His eternal purposes, and we are strengthened, refreshed, and ready for all that may come.

On this National Day of Prayer, we ask God’s continued blessings on our country. This year’s theme, “Prayer! America’s Strength and Shield,” is taken from Psalm 28:7, “The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped.” On this day, we pray for the safety of our brave men and women in uniform, for their families, and for the comfort and recovery of those who have been wounded.

The Congress, by Public Law 100-307, as amended, has called on our Nation to reaffirm the role of prayer in our society by recognizing each year a “National Day of Prayer.”

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2008, as a National Day of Prayer. I ask the citizens of our Nation

to give thanks, each according to his or her own faith, for the freedoms and blessings we have received and for God’s continued guidance, comfort, and protection. I invite all Americans to join in observing this day with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-first day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand eight, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-second.

GEORGE W. BUSH

# # #


3 posted on 10/04/2008 2:38:44 AM PDT by Cindy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

Okay. This coming National Prayer Day, we should pray for the extermination of idiot old hippies who want to do away with National Prayer Day.


4 posted on 10/04/2008 2:42:21 AM PDT by JennysCool (Death to all vanities and searing pain to those who post them. - Petronski (McCain-Palin '08))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER - Website:
http://www.ndptf.org/


5 posted on 10/04/2008 2:42:30 AM PDT by Cindy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: All

Note: Photos included.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/05/20080501-1.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
May 1, 2008

President Bush Celebrates National Day of Prayer
East Room

Video (Windows)
Presidential Remarks
Audio
Photos
En Español
10:12 A.M.

THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. Welcome to the White House. And I am honored to join you for the National Day of Prayer. I’m sorry Laura is not here — she’s out selling her book. (Laughter.)

Shirley, thank you very much for being the Chairman of the National Day of Prayer. Glad you brought old Jim with you. (Laughter.) Dr. Zacharias, thank you for being the Honorary Chairman. I appreciate the members of my Cabinet who are here today, thank you all for coming. It’s good to see members of the United States Senate and the House of Representatives. Appreciate you all taking time out of your busy schedule to come by. It’s always good to be with you.

I want to thank our military chaplains who are with us. Thank you for doing the Lord’s work with our troops. I’m proud to have prayer leaders here. Rabbi Fishman, thank you, it’s good to see you again, sir. Father Coughlin, from the United States House of Representatives, it’s good to see you, sir. I want to thank Pastor Mays, who will be following me here shortly, for coming. I’m looking forward to hearing the choir of Saint Patrick’s Cathedral, New York City, New York. It’s going to be a great moment to have this East Room filled with the joy of song. So I welcome them here today.

On this day, Americans come together to thank our Creator for our nation’s many blessings. We are a blessed nation. And on this day, we celebrate our freedoms, particularly the freedom to pray in public and the great diversity of faith found in America. I love being the President of a country where people feel free to worship as they see fit. And I remind our fellow citizens, if you choose to worship or not worship, and no matter how you worship, we’re all equally American. (Applause.)

I think one of the interesting things about a National Day of Prayer is it does help describe our nation’s character to others. We are a prayerful nation. A lot of citizens draw comfort from prayer. Prayer is an important part of the lives of millions of Americans. And it’s interesting, when you think about our faith you can find it in the Pledge of Allegiance, you can find an expression of American faith in the Declaration of Independence, and you can find it in the coins in our pockets. I used to carry coins — (laughter) — in about 10 months I’ll be carrying them again. (Laughter and applause.)

The fidelity to faith has been present in our nation’s leaders from its very start. Upon assuming the presidency, George Washington took the oath of office and then added the famous plea, “So help me God.” On John Adams’s first day in the White House, he wrote a prayer that is now etched in marble on the fireplace in the State Dining Room, and he prayed, “May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof.” Now we’ll leave it to the historians to judge whether or not that happened throughout our history. (Laughter.)

During the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln turned to prayer. His second Inaugural Address quoted from Scripture. He stood before the United States people and quoted from Scripture. And he sought to heal a people who “read the same Bible and prayed to the same God” — his words.

As William McKinley lay dying from an assassin’s bullet, one of his final words on earth focused on the Almighty. On his deathbed he was heard to say, “Nearer, my God to thee.”

As American forces risked their lives on D-Day, Franklin Roosevelt delivered a presidential prayer over the radio. He asked God to protect our troops as they liberated “a suffering humanity” and he prayed for “a peace that will let all men live in freedom.” When Roosevelt died, his successor, Harry Truman, said he “felt like the moon, the stars and all the planets” had fallen on him. And he told reporters: “Boys, if you ever pray, pray for me now.”

John F. Kennedy attended mass in Florida during the last week of his presidency, and during the last week of his life. It was at that mass that he heard the parable where our Lord compared the Kingdom of Heaven to a mustard seed that grew into a large tree and offered shelter to God’s creatures.

Three days after the worst terrorist attack on American soil, Laura and I joined our fellow citizens in prayer before the Lord. It was in the middle hour of our grief. We prayed for those who were missing. We prayed for the dead. We prayed for those who loved them. I recalled the words of a woman from New York, who said, “I prayed to God to give us a sign that He is still here.”

Well, sometimes God’s signs are not always the ones we look for. And we learn in tragedy that His purposes are not always our own. But we also know that in adversity we can find comfort through prayer.

Over the last seven years, our country has faced many trials. And time and time again we have turned to prayer and found strength and resilience. We prayed with those who’ve lost everything in natural disasters, and helped them heal and recover and build. We prayed for our brave and brilliant troops who died on the field of battle. We lift up their families in prayer. And as we pray for God’s continued blessings on our country, I think it makes sense to hope that one day there may be a International Day of Prayer, that one day the national — (applause.) It will be a chance for people of faith around the world to stop at the same time to pause to praise an Almighty. It will be a time when we could prayer together for a world that sees the promise of the Psalms made real: “Your love is ever before me, and I walk continually in your truth.”

I want to thank you all for coming. Particularly want to thank you for your prayers. You know, somebody asked me one time, when I was there over seeing the Sea of Galilee, they said, what did you think about what you were there, Mr. President? I said I have finally understood the story of the calm on the rough seas. I may have been a little hardheaded at times, but I’m absolutely convinced it was the prayers of the people who helped me understood in turbulence you can find calm and strength. And I thank you for those prayers. (Applause.)

END 10:20 A.M. EDT


6 posted on 10/04/2008 2:45:36 AM PDT by Cindy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

That’s how they do things. They all use the court system. I say let’s start getting some of these judges who seem to have special interests.


7 posted on 10/04/2008 2:47:49 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.


8 posted on 10/04/2008 2:55:54 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

I’m an atheist. But atheism isn’t what’s going on here. It’s liberalism. Being a conservative atheist I recognize the great asset that religion is to a society and would never try to dissuade folks from their God. An atheist society can not, as we have seen, maintain any morality. I say lets have a bunch of national prayer days. They keep us free and allow us to flourish. But, pardon me if I use the time to go fishing.


9 posted on 10/04/2008 2:59:44 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JennysCool
Okay. This coming National Prayer Day, we should pray for the extermination of idiot old hippies who want to do away with National Prayer Day.

Humor aside, I think it a horrible idea to pray for such a thing. How about praying that they have a change of heart?

10 posted on 10/04/2008 3:15:58 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

“calling on Americans to pray violates a constitutional ban on government officials endorsing religion.”

No. Here is the text:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”

That’s establishment, not endorsement. A close study of public opinion at the time the amendment passed, I believe, would reveal that this obviously refers to establishing an official state religion. While some specific religion could be suffocating to non-believers, government endorsing religion in general or belief in God in general would not have occured to the average person readingf the amendment back in 1789.

Anyway, whether or not the Constitution intended to block the establishment of A religion instead of religion in general, establishment is the issue, not endorsement. Judges and pundits shrug their shoulders, asking “What constitutes establishment? Who knows?” What if a Congressman says the word “God” on the floor of the House? Has he therein established a religion?

Hell no! Establishment means establishment. If you want a hypothetical example of what would constitute establishment, how about a law that states, “We do hereby establish the religion of Christianity, in all its many forms.” We’ll know it when we see it. This isn’t it.


11 posted on 10/04/2008 3:16:23 AM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane
A close study of public opinion at the time the amendment passed, I believe, would reveal that this obviously refers to establishing an official state religion.

Ahem, may I presume you meant "federal religion"?

The first amendment exclusively applies to the federal legislature, and mentions no restriction at all on the states.

Not saying there aren't similar clauses in state constitutions or other laws that might apply to state and local governments...its just that, contrary to popular misconception, the first amendment does not.

12 posted on 10/04/2008 3:36:47 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear
"Deprived of signs, with no prophets left, who can say how long this will last? How much longer, God, is the oppressor to blaspheme? Is the enemy to insult your name forever? Why hold back your hand, why keep your right hand hidden? "

"Remember the enemy's blasphemy, how frenzied people dare to insult your name. Respect the covenant! We can bear no more -- every cave in the country is the scene of violence! Rise God, say something on your behalf, do not forget the madman's day-long blaspheming..." (Ps.74:1-23). "Axes deep in the wood, hacking at the panels, they battered them down with mallet and hatchet; then, God, setting fire to your sanctuary, they profanely razed the house of your name to the ground. Determined to destroy us once and for all, they burned down every shrine of God in the country." (Ps.74:1-23).

13 posted on 10/04/2008 3:40:05 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: wgflyer

“An atheist society can not, as we have seen, maintain any morality.”

I agree with the rest of what you said but this, above, is pure bunk. There has never been an atheist society. The Soviets worshipped the state, and the North Koreans worship “Dear Leader”.


14 posted on 10/04/2008 3:44:48 AM PDT by Jason Kauppinen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Nathan Zachary
For refernce, the whole psalm is here

Presuming your reason for citing this, I note God doesn't make any moral pronouncements about praying for extermination in it.

Moreover, God says nothing at all in this psalm. The psalmist is talking to God, not prophesying for God.

On the other hand, do really even need to bring up the many teachings of Jesus that support my view?

15 posted on 10/04/2008 3:51:51 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Jason Kauppinen
There has never been an atheist society. The Soviets worshipped the state, and the North Koreans worship “Dear Leader”

And some atheists worship at other other altars and call it 'science'

16 posted on 10/04/2008 3:52:56 AM PDT by valkyry1 (McCain/Palin 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: wgflyer

To most liberals, government is their god. That sets the stage for a better lawsuit than this toilet paper.


17 posted on 10/04/2008 3:55:22 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberalism is a Socialist Disease)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

It’s really a shame that someone would be this upset about prayer. Maybe they should try it some time. I’m sure the world would be a better place for it but ignorance knows no bounds.


18 posted on 10/04/2008 3:59:15 AM PDT by RU88 (The false messiah can not change water into wine any more than he can get unity from diversity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear
Humor aside, I think it a horrible idea to pray for such a thing. How about praying that they have a change of heart?

Naw. Their second childhood is the only one in memory that has a body count attached.

They've made their bed. Twice. The sooner we are rid of that portion of that generation, the better.

19 posted on 10/04/2008 4:01:52 AM PDT by JennysCool (Death to all vanities and searing pain to those who post them. - Petronski (McCain-Palin '08))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Cindy
A quote we'll see next year?

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
April 22, 2009

National Day of Prayer, 2009

White House News
En Español
Al Ahrabeeya
A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America

America trusts in the abiding power of prayer and asks for the wisdom to discern God’s will in times of joy and of trial. As we observe this National Day of Prayer, we recognize our dependence on Allah, we thank Him for the many blessings He has bestowed upon us, and we put our country’s future in His hands. From our Nation’s humble beginnings, prayer has guided our leaders and played a vital role in the life and history of the United States. Americans of the one true faith share the profound conviction that Allah listens only to the voice of His children and pours His grace upon those who seek Him in prayer. By surrendering our lives through Jihad to serve our loving Father, we learn to serve His eternal purposes, and we are strengthened, refreshed, and ready for all that may come.

On this National Day of Prayer, we ask Allah's continued blessings on the faithful in our country. This year’s theme, “Slay them wherever you find them, Idolatry is worse than carnage,” is taken from Surah 2:190, “Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme.” On this day, we pray for the martyrdom of our brave men and women in uniform, for their families, and for the glorious death of those who have been wounded.

The Congress, by Public Law 100-307, as amended, has called on our Nation to reaffirm the role of prayer in our society by recognizing each year a “National Day of Prayer.”

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Barack H. Obama, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2009, as a National Day of Prayer. I order the citizens of our Nation to give thanks five times that day and every day, each according to my faith, for the freedoms and blessings we have received and for God’s continued guidance, comfort, and protection. I direct all Americans to join in observing this day with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-first day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand nine, and of the Submission of the United States of America the first.

BARACK H. OBAMA

20 posted on 10/04/2008 4:04:58 AM PDT by MathDoc (Obama: "end the war" ... or McCain/Palin: "win the war" ... easy choice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wgflyer

“An atheist society can not, as we have seen, maintain any morality.”
Astute observation. It’s because theres no ‘there there’.Consider following that line of argument to its next step some time. I’d suggest reading C.S. Lewis, who was also an atheist at one time. You may find a kindred spirit in him.


21 posted on 10/04/2008 4:11:28 AM PDT by mkmensinger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: valkyry1
Well if an atheist were to worship nothing. Perhaps this means that nothing is all powerful, and nothing is completely good. And perhaps the rest of us will have nothing to fear after we die.

Oh my, is nothing sacred?...well I suppose nothing would be...

22 posted on 10/04/2008 4:11:37 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear
The day of prayer, held each year on the first Thursday of May, creates a "hostile environment for nonbelievers, who are made to feel as if they are political outsiders," the lawsuit said.

They want to suppress the freedom of the other 95% of Americans because of ONE DAY of prayer

23 posted on 10/04/2008 4:11:38 AM PDT by Popman (Don’t worry Barney Frank has your ass-ets covered!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Darkwolf377
I have to wonder--if Obama were president, and the national prayer day existed, would they sue him?

Of course not. They would pray to him. After all, he is the Godless messiah

24 posted on 10/04/2008 4:13:29 AM PDT by Popman (Don’t worry Barney Frank has your ass-ets covered!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Popman

whatever happened to “Live and let live”?


25 posted on 10/04/2008 4:18:03 AM PDT by NJ_dems_are_evil ( New Jersey and Corruption, Perfect Together)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: RU88
I suspect that everyone prays a little, even the most hardened atheists.

Who else are people talking to when they their soul simply cries out?

26 posted on 10/04/2008 4:20:34 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Darkwolf377

I am an atheist.

I am praying that an asteroid hits Madison. and/or Berkeley.


27 posted on 10/04/2008 4:20:53 AM PDT by mike-zed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

I guess there are no true atheists then.


28 posted on 10/04/2008 4:22:46 AM PDT by valkyry1 (McCain/Palin 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: freekitty
President Bush: And I remind our fellow citizens, if you choose to worship or not worship, and no matter how you worship, we’re all equally American.

It occurs, that this lawsuiting little atheistic group sees the law as their god. They see "law" as their god, their creator. When I saw they were on a lawsuit hunt, I initially began laughing, the irony being too rich to handle quietly. But as I read, I saw how truly insignificant this group feels itself to be, and with little genuine comprehension of either law or G_d.

29 posted on 10/04/2008 4:27:07 AM PDT by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: valkyry1
I guess there are no true atheists then.

Nah, that was just highly fallacious punishment.

30 posted on 10/04/2008 4:31:32 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: NJ_dems_are_evil
whatever happened to “Live and let live”?

For the most part (not all) atheists have this elitist smug attitude that they are intelligently superior to people who have a faith system based on "God"

So in reality they are just trying to get us to understand we are Neanderthals and need their superior intellect to made us see the error of our ways and stop believing in the "guy in the sky"

Like most liberals, they need to force themselves upon us to make themselves feel validated

31 posted on 10/04/2008 4:31:39 AM PDT by Popman (Don’t worry Barney Frank has your ass-ets covered!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Alia
That is how these agenda groups do it. They know they are not going to convince the public; so they do it through a very bias court system.
32 posted on 10/04/2008 4:54:29 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: freekitty

So, the courts are their “god”. The law is their “god”. I’m curious what they think they personally get out of it. How does it enrich their coffers. Seems to me it only enriches the politicians they elect to office. Maybe the backside is they get more free welfare benefits, so they can have more free time in order to file more law suits.


33 posted on 10/04/2008 5:19:07 AM PDT by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Alia

I don’t think they see the courts as their god. It’s just a means to get what they want.

Their god is themselves.


34 posted on 10/04/2008 5:38:16 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

The National Day of Prayer was instituted in 1952 by Harry Truman:

§ 119. National Day of Prayer
The President shall issue each year a proclamation designating the first Thursday in May as a National Day of Prayer on which the people of the United States may turn to God in prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals.


If this weren’t just about liberalism or Bush Derangement Syndrome they would also be suing GHWB, Bubba & Carter.


35 posted on 10/04/2008 6:12:19 AM PDT by Sisku Hanne (The day begins and ends in Alaska.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Popman

“Like most liberals, they need to force themselves upon us to make themselves feel validated”

Pathetic. I could think of more words to describe them, but this is a clean site.


36 posted on 10/04/2008 7:07:49 AM PDT by NJ_dems_are_evil ( New Jersey and Corruption, Perfect Together)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: freekitty

Touche. You are probably right.


37 posted on 10/04/2008 7:30:57 AM PDT by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Jason Kauppinen
Well, I would agree with you that there are plenty of substitutes out there for God, many followed with religious fervor, but it is the society based upon disbelief in God and belief in some entity of man that, to me, defines atheism. I don't believe in God, therefore I am an atheist. But everywhere we see belief in something other than God we see a decline in morality and one can easily see this in the secular, liberal society of our western nations today. Everything bad increases. This is not the kind of society in which I enjoy living.

One caveat, of course...the specific religion makes a big difference. One can not help but note the turmoil in the muslim world, for example. Our Judea Christian religions are not oppressive, but rather very beneficial, for the most part.

38 posted on 10/04/2008 7:43:06 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: mkmensinger
“It’s because theres no ‘there there’”

That's right. I find that my own morality slowly settles to the common denominator because I do not have the faith in God required to ascend, or maintain consistency. So I choose to live in a society in which the common denominator is of a high standard. It's like grading on a curve...if the class is a bunch of dunces, a C grade doesn't mean much. But if you're in a class with sharper students, a C grade is better than an A grade in the dunce class. I'll usually get the C grade. But I prefer to get it among sharper, rather than denser peers. (the example is not meant to imply that non believers are dense, only tending less morally stable)

Having said that, I'll pass on reading for religious enlightenment. It just ain't in me. I'll need a pretty earth shaking epiphany before that happens.

39 posted on 10/04/2008 7:57:29 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

“Ahem, may I presume you meant ‘federal religion’?”

I often use the word “state” in the more general sense of “government.” But anyway, I do believe the First Amendment applies to the states through what is know as the “incorporation” principle. I know, the amendment clearly says, “Congress shall make no law...” It’s silly, but our courts say the fourteenth amendment forces the states to abide the same restrictions that the federal government operates under. These are the leaders we get.


40 posted on 10/04/2008 9:16:46 AM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: wgflyer

“An atheist society can not, as we have seen, maintain any morality.”

That does not look like something an atheist would write. In any case, I do not think we have seen that an atheist society cannot maintain any morality. Not at all.

History has shown that atheism is not a sufficient ingredient for a healthy society. But we cannot thus conclude that theism is a necessary ingredient for a healthy society. In fact, history has shown that atheists can form morally upright communities.

It is quite possible that the world can have a prosperous, stable, and morally sound society founded on atheistic principles. The failures of some atheistic nations is not disproof of that.

And let’s not confuse the discussion by lumping atheism together with every other belief system. If we are going to make a case against the atheists suing the government here—or if we are going to make an argument against atheism in general—we should be very careful about how we use the term. Atheism has its unique attributes, just like everything else.


41 posted on 10/04/2008 11:33:44 AM PDT by JasonInPoland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear; tpanther; MrB; betty boop

And so it goes....


42 posted on 10/04/2008 11:42:29 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jason Kauppinen; wgflyer; valkyry1

But neither the Soviet state nor the *Dear Leader* are gods.

They rejected any notion of God; hence they qualify as atheistic (God free) societies.

You can not like it all you want but, history bears out what happens when the God of the Bible is rejected and a God-free society is established. It’s not pretty.


43 posted on 10/04/2008 11:48:07 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Popman; AndyTheBear; tpanther; MrB
The day of prayer, held each year on the first Thursday of May, creates a "hostile environment for nonbelievers, who are made to feel as if they are political outsiders," the lawsuit said.

Likewise, prohibiting the day of prayer, held each year on the first Thursday of May, creates a "hostile environment for nonbelievers, who are made to feel as if they are political outsiders," .....

44 posted on 10/04/2008 11:50:47 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Popman; valkyry1
For the most part (not all) atheists have this elitist smug attitude that they are intelligently superior to people who have a faith system based on "God" So in reality they are just trying to get us to understand we are Neanderthals and need their superior intellect to made us see the error of our ways and stop believing in the "guy in the sky"

Funny thing is, evolution scientists say that man has evolved to believe in God. So, those smug elitists who like to think that they're so superior to believers, really aren't according to science. Oh, the irony.

45 posted on 10/04/2008 11:54:31 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: JasonInPoland
In fact, history has shown that atheists can form morally upright communities.

Where? I don't recall any examples of that.

It is quite possible that the world can have a prosperous, stable, and morally sound society founded on atheistic principles. The failures of some atheistic nations is not disproof of that.

Failure of *some* atheistic nations? Which atheistic nations have not failed?

46 posted on 10/04/2008 11:58:50 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Darkwolf377

I don’t get what the big deal is.

Why are atheists having a fit over something the don’t believe in?


47 posted on 10/04/2008 12:10:25 PM PDT by Fichori (ironic: adj. 1 Characterized by or constituting irony. 2 Obamy getting beat up by a girl.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: metmom

I think it’s pretty obvious that there are atheistic communities in America. Aren’t something like 16 million Americans atheists?

“Failure of *some* atheistic nations? Which atheistic nations have not failed?”

China is one example. Though, of course, I am not holding China up as an example of moral perfection.

France is way more aggressively secular than the USA, and they’re not so bad off.

My point is, we have no grounds for concluding that all atheistic nations are doomed to immorality. I wouldn’t jump to such conclusions.

Of course, the most notorious atheistic nations have been linked with communism and/or fascism. I think the problems there are with fascism and communism, not atheism. Atheism is perfectly compatible with democracy and capitalism.


48 posted on 10/04/2008 12:14:19 PM PDT by JasonInPoland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: AndyTheBear

They’re not “Atheists.” They are “Anti-Theists.”

What will they do next, dig up George Washington and sue him?


49 posted on 10/04/2008 12:16:11 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JasonInPoland
I think it’s pretty obvious that there are atheistic communities in America. Aren’t something like 16 million Americans atheists?

Where? I doubt that the number of atheists is that high to begin with.

I know of no atheistic communities in the US. Why would you expect there to be?

Even if there were by some chance communities that were comprised solely of atheists (and I highly doubt there are), this is by far and away a Christian nation. The Christian heritage that this nation was founded on provides the moral basis for its laws and still protects any *atheistic* communities should they exist. They would not be independent nations; they are not isolated from the federal and state laws that they live under.

An atheistic community would still have the heavy influence of the Judeo-Christian heritage that this country was founded on. It would be no evidence at all that an atheistic nation would be successful. They simply are not. History bears that out.

If you think that China is not so bad, you are far more deceived than you even have a clue of.

If you think that France is not in such bad shape, yo don't know your history very well. Google up *French Revolution* to find out what happens to a society or nation that rejects God.

50 posted on 10/04/2008 12:43:28 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-112 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson