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Revisiting the Berg lawsuit - new twist

Posted on 10/04/2008 5:33:42 PM PDT by mimi from mi

It seems an attorney by the name of Paul Andrew Mitchell has "appliedv for leave to intervene in the instant case, to petition this honorable Court for a Writ in the nature of a Prohibition if leave is granted, and to provide timely written Notice to all interested Party(s) of same." He wants to bring John McCain also into the suit and states: "forever barring both Messrs. Barack Hussein Obama and John Sidney McCain III from ever serving in the Office of President of the United States of America"

still haven't learned html

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/obama/intervention.prohibition.htm


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: berg; bergvobama; birthcertificate; certifigate; citizen; citizenship; lawsuit; mccain; mccainpalin; obama; passport; philberg; philipberg
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1 posted on 10/04/2008 5:33:42 PM PDT by mimi from mi
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To: mimi from mi

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/obama/intervention.prohibition.htm


2 posted on 10/04/2008 5:35:43 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: mimi from mi
If Obama and McCain are both disqualified, that may not be such a bad thing. It'll be Palin vs. Biden and she would win in a landslide.

We'll get the President we really want.

3 posted on 10/04/2008 5:36:03 PM PDT by pray4liberty (The Lord is on the side of the truly righteous.)
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To: mimi from mi

Maybe a lawyer will differ, but the only reason I can see for combining this suit with the other, instead of bringing a completely separate suit to disqualify McCain, would be to complicate and further delay the Obama suit, until it’s too late.

It’s generally agreed that McCain is elibible, but if some judge wants to throw another monkey wrench into the works, he could support this effort, no?


4 posted on 10/04/2008 5:39:14 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

Well I guess it’s cheaper advertising than running “mesothelioma” ads on late night TV...


5 posted on 10/04/2008 5:39:14 PM PDT by PhilosopherStones
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To: mimi from mi
FROM HIS RESUME:

EDUCATION SUMMARY: Self-educated via "distance learning" in American history, constitutional law, federal statutes

MS is Social Ecology.

6 posted on 10/04/2008 5:39:30 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I Love The Smell Of Schmidt Storm in the Morning...and Afternoon....and at Night!!!!!)
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To: mimi from mi

One wonders how many people could be helping expose Obama’s connctions to Ayers, Rezko, Wright and ACORN if they weren’t shredding time with this birth certificate crap. What a stupid waste of effort.


7 posted on 10/04/2008 5:39:47 PM PDT by montag813
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To: mimi from mi

Stupid.
JM was born to two US citizens on a US military base, he is a citizen. This was gone over and over and rebuffed in 2000.


8 posted on 10/04/2008 5:40:35 PM PDT by svcw (Great selection of gift baskets: http://baskettastic.com/)
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To: mimi from mi

The comeback kid script, was explained long ago.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Obama+and+McCain+%22about+to+leave+the+stage%22


9 posted on 10/04/2008 5:42:27 PM PDT by VlPu
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To: Cicero

McCain issue is DOA. Both of his parents are natural born citizens, and his father was on “The business of the United States”. I think military service counts for that. The lawyer who brought that in is just a publicity seeking ambulance chaser.... OK Who is next?


10 posted on 10/04/2008 5:44:26 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Let's get serious - there is only one choice - McCain/Palin 2008)
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To: montag813

This point was brought up months ago, that Obama might use his birth certificate as a deflection from other issues.

This should be pressed privately and left alone by McCain, imho, freeing him up to expose Obama’s background, associations and, hopefully, his agendas of which there are many.

If Obama can produce said certificate and the McCain camp spent any time on this then it would have been time wasted.


11 posted on 10/04/2008 5:47:59 PM PDT by IL1949 (Sarah Palin is proof of divine intervention.)
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To: BigEdLB

Also he was born in the Canal Zone, which at the time had a special status. A lawsuit of this nature was summarily dismissed earlier in the campaign, although I don’t remember the venue.


12 posted on 10/04/2008 5:50:30 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: mimi from mi

Hey newbie


13 posted on 10/04/2008 5:52:33 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper (Gen. George S. Patton to Michael Moore... American Carol: "I really like slapping you.")
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To: mimi from mi

McCain is legal by virtue of the way the law was written. (Retroactive)


14 posted on 10/04/2008 6:01:00 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Paying taxes for bank bailouts is apparently the patriotic thing to do. [/sarc])
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To: mimi from mi

I have wondered if BHO’s problem with releasing the birth certificate is that it may list his race as white.


15 posted on 10/04/2008 6:20:37 PM PDT by ridgerunner (BHO will destroy USA)
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To: Cicero

I agree. It sounds like a tactic to delay Berg’s suit. Even more evidence that there is a damaging material fact to hide.


16 posted on 10/04/2008 6:21:20 PM PDT by Doug TX
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To: mimi from mi

So was Barry Goldwater not eligible in 1964 because he was born in Arizona three years before it because a State?


17 posted on 10/04/2008 6:21:50 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Teachers open the door. It's up to you to enter. Before the late bell. When I close the door.)
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To: mimi from mi

This is dumb,


18 posted on 10/04/2008 6:23:52 PM PDT by Gator113 ("Noli nothis permittere te terere.")
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To: mimi from mi

We need to focus on Black Liberation theory, Wright, Ayers, his disgusting baby murder votes, non-existent experience and qualifications, and that anti-everything you care about low-class you-know-what that Wright married him to.

Let someone else worry about the birth issue - and if it is proven to be legit, let someone present it - apart from McCain or teh GOP.


19 posted on 10/04/2008 6:28:27 PM PDT by AbeKrieger (Gore, Kerry, Obama. GOP Hat Trick 2008.)
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To: Cicero

“Maybe a lawyer will differ, but the only reason I can see for combining this suit with the other, instead of bringing a completely separate suit to disqualify McCain, would be to complicate and further delay the Obama suit, until it’s too late.”

I believe this is the strategy.

I thought there had already been a lawsuit challenging McCain and either it was thrown out or McCain won. If he won then I do not believe it could be litigated again.


20 posted on 10/04/2008 7:06:53 PM PDT by bitterdfwrepub
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To: mimi from mi

Actually, McCain can have certified copies of ALL of his proof of natural-born citizenship documents in the hands of the judge within a few days. At that point, all that his opponent needs to do is exactly the same. A certified copy of Obama’s ACTUAL hospital birth certificate, showing the date, time, and location IN HAWAII of his birth, along with the full name, citizenship, and marital status of his parents. All of these facts bear on the classification of his American citizenship as “natural born.”

Then we need documentation of his mother’s divorce and new marriage, as well has his adoption by his stepfather, a citizen of Indonesia. If he were a natural born citizen, he could reclaim that status by oath before a judge or consular official, and he would have a certificate of citizenship to attest to that oath. It would indicate, as does mine, that it attests to DERIVATIVE citizenship.

However, if he EVER made a claim to citizenship of a different country - for instance, by applying for and receiving a passport from that country as an adult - I believe that he would forfeit his “natural born” derivative claim to American citizenship. And as a result, he would forfeit eligibility for the Presidency.


21 posted on 10/04/2008 7:19:19 PM PDT by MainFrame65 (The US Senate: World's greatest PREVARICATIVE body!.)
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To: Cicero

Berg’s case is well grounded in law or a reasonable argument for an extension thereof. This guy is a lunatic.


22 posted on 10/04/2008 7:26:25 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: Gator113
This is dumb

This guy needs to spend the remainder of his days in a white suit confined to an institution where he can chase butterflies around the lawn.

23 posted on 10/04/2008 7:31:25 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

This guy needs to spend the remainder of his days in a white suit confined to an institution where he can chase butterflies around the lawn.
***Hmmm, 3 square meals a day, free medical care, all the butterflies you can press into a book... that beats my retirement plan. I think I’ll go ahead and file this lawsuit myself. ;-)


24 posted on 10/04/2008 10:15:32 PM PDT by Kevmo (McCain's learning from Palin how to win a national election. Palin's learning from him how to lose 1)
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To: svcw

“JM was born to two US citizens on a US military base, he is a citizen. This was gone over and over and rebuffed in 2000”

McCain was born in Colon, Republic of Panama, and not in the Canal Zone.

And yes, it has been gone over and over again and you refuse to learn to read.


25 posted on 10/05/2008 7:23:08 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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To: BigEdLB

“...and his father was on ‘The business of the United States.’ I think military service counts for that.”

No it doesn’t.


26 posted on 10/05/2008 7:27:11 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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To: USNBandit

“Also he was born in the Canal Zone.”

No he wasn’t.

He was born in Colon, Republic of Panama and not in the Canal Zone.

Colon, Republic of Panama, and the Canal Zone were to different countries.


27 posted on 10/05/2008 7:29:33 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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To: svcw
JM was born to two US citizens on a US military base, he is a citizen.

Actually, he wasn't. He was born in Colon, in the Republic of Panama.

28 posted on 10/05/2008 7:29:43 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: MainFrame65

I have a copy of McCain’s birth certificate. He wasn’t born on a military base or in the Canal Zone.


29 posted on 10/05/2008 7:31:18 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: EternalVigilance

Thank you, EternalVigilance.


30 posted on 10/05/2008 7:32:12 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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To: USNBandit

to = two, 2, dos


31 posted on 10/05/2008 7:35:43 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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To: AbeKrieger

IMO, this is the perfect time to hit his ACORN roots hard. ACORN had a direct and effective role in the sub-prime meltdown, and 0 was an instructor of ACORN leaders.

ACORN leaders incited their members to rush into banks, turn over furniture and refuse to leave, should that the bank had to stop redlining in their neighborhood.

0 taught them, using the Alinsky method..


32 posted on 10/05/2008 7:39:24 AM PDT by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
33 posted on 10/05/2008 7:43:27 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
No sure what you are arguing here. I never gave a name of a town/country
- I said he was born on a US military base.
So are you arguing he is not a citizen or just trying to correct me about where he was born.
But in either case he is a citizen.
34 posted on 10/05/2008 7:51:03 AM PDT by svcw (Great selection of gift baskets: http://baskettastic.com/)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
In addition to general protections provided to servicemembers abroad, WRT Panama, the following applies.

8 USC §1403. Persons born in the Canal Zone or Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

35 posted on 10/05/2008 7:58:04 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: svcw
- I said he was born on a US military base.

He wasn't born on a US military base. He was born in a Panamanian civilian hospital in the Republic of Panama.

But in either case he is a citizen.

I think that is an interesting question in itself. But it's non-germaine to this matter, since it is not citizenship per se that is at question, but "natural born" status.

36 posted on 10/05/2008 7:58:44 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: AndyJackson

McCain would fall under “B” which would make him naturalized, not natural born.

You also might want to post the date that legislation passed.


37 posted on 10/05/2008 8:01:27 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: EternalVigilance
McCain would fall under “B” which would make him naturalized, not natural born.

First, it does not say that. Second USC 8 §1401(g) would also cover McCain specifically because of USC 8 §1401(a)

38 posted on 10/05/2008 8:36:22 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

None of which could make him natural born, after the fact, by definition.


39 posted on 10/05/2008 8:38:14 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: EternalVigilance

What? Including the part that says “The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: “


40 posted on 10/05/2008 8:43:25 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

You still haven’t posted when that particular bit of the code became law. This is an important omission.

You could declare someone to be a Buick retroactively, but that wouldn’t make them a Buick.


41 posted on 10/05/2008 8:47:03 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: EternalVigilance

In the eyes of the law you can and it does.


42 posted on 10/05/2008 9:29:37 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: EternalVigilance

He didn’t need to be born in any particular place - BOTH parents were American citizens. My own Certificate of Citizenship indicates that my American citizenship is DERIVATIVE, from my parents, at birth, and confirmed by oath before a judge at majority.

I want to see Obama’s certificate.


43 posted on 10/05/2008 9:31:52 AM PDT by MainFrame65 (The US Senate: World's greatest PREVARICATIVE body!.)
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To: AndyJackson
In the eyes of the law you can and it does.

If Congress passed a law that declared Jesus Christ a "natural born" American, he still wouldn't be a natural born American. Congress doesn't have the power to retroactively change facts.

44 posted on 10/05/2008 9:34:02 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: MainFrame65

I want to see Obama’s birth certificate too. I won’t believe he’s natural born until I do. The fact that they won’t produce such a simple document is highly suspicious. There’s no reason I can think of not to release it if it is proper and in order.

Your argument about McCain’s parentage providing his natural born status is a strong one. Of course, that isn’t what McCain’s supporters have been arguing. Even on this thread, they’ve been misstating the facts of the circumstances of his birth, just like the media. [Probably mainly ignorance in both cases.]

But, if McCain is going to make the argument based on his parentage, he’s going to have to make it from a natural law perspective, one which would expose many of his policy positions over the years as hypocritical to say the least.


45 posted on 10/05/2008 9:41:52 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: EternalVigilance
Congress doesn't have the power to retroactively change facts.

Where McCain was born, to whom, when, and under what circumstances are facts.

Whether or not McCain is a natural born citizen of the US is a not a fact but a conclusion of law. Since the constitution does not define a natural born citizen, it can be established through common law, and statute, as determined by the US Congress. And the law can change and can be changed. While it might be difficult to pass a law dispossessing someone of citizenship after it is conferred, under the 14th ammendment, citizenship, including rights of citizenship by virtue of birth can be conferred by statute. In fact, in the INA congress does just that.

46 posted on 10/05/2008 11:17:52 AM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

Codified law can’t change natural facts.


47 posted on 10/05/2008 11:58:11 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (You went to Washington like you said. Named any names yet, Senator?)
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To: EternalVigilance
Ok. I got it. You have it in for McCain, and as a consequence you are willing to try this idiotic thick headed approach trying to argue semantics, but they just don't go where you want them to.

Whether someone is a citizen is not a fact. It is a status conferred by law. I could be born in Germany of US citizens. Under German law, as I understand it, I am not regarded as a German citizen. That is a legal determination, not a factual determination. Where McCain was born is a fact. Whether or not he is a citizen, natural born citizen, or naturalized citizen is not fact. It is determined after a court examines the circumstances of his birth and applies the laws of the United States to those facts.

It isn't hard to understand really.

48 posted on 10/05/2008 2:15:08 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: svcw

READ post #33.

There is no trick question there.


49 posted on 10/05/2008 3:21:49 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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To: AndyJackson

Believe what you want to believe. Whatever makes you happy.

Until today, Sunday, it is still a free country for beliefs.


50 posted on 10/05/2008 3:25:46 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer) ("We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")
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