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Prehistoric cave paintings took up to 20,000 years to complete
Telegraph ^ | 05 Oct 2008 | Telegraph

Posted on 10/04/2008 6:50:29 PM PDT by BGHater

It may have taken Michelangelo four long years to paint his fresco on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel,but his earliest predecessors spent considerably longer perfecting their own masterpieces.

Scientists have discovered that prehistoric cave paintings took up to 20,000 years to complete.

Rather than being created in one session, as archaeologists previously thought, many of the works discovered across Europe were produced over hundreds of generations who added to, refreshed and painted over the original pieces of art.

Until now it has been extremely difficult to pinpoint when prehistoric cave paintings and carvings were created, but a pioneering technique is allowing researchers to date cave art accurately for the first time and show how the works were crafted over thousands of years.

Experts now hope the technique will help provide a valuable insight into how early human culture developed and changed as the first modern humans moved across Europe around 40,000 years ago.

By comparing the ratio of uranium to thorium in the thin layers on top of the cave art, researchers were able to calculate the age of the paintings

Dr Pike and his team were able to date the paintings using a technique known as uranium series dating

Bison on the ceiling of the polychrome chamber in the Altamira cave in northern Spain

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: cave; caveart; cavedrawings; cavepainting; cavepaintings; godsgravesglyphs; macroetymology; paintings; paleosigns; smellofbs
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1 posted on 10/04/2008 6:50:29 PM PDT by BGHater
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping.

SC, they are making you and the Post Office look bad with their speed.

Lol. Get out of the tub.

jk


2 posted on 10/04/2008 6:51:41 PM PDT by BGHater (Democracy is the road to socialism.)
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To: BGHater

oh come on


3 posted on 10/04/2008 6:54:00 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Betcha they're good. Why shouldn't they be? Their one mistake was giving up me!)
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To: BGHater

That’s some slow drying paint they were using.


4 posted on 10/04/2008 6:56:23 PM PDT by NCPAC ("Libertarianism is the heart and soul of conservatism." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: BGHater
Unions, eh?

/johnny

5 posted on 10/04/2008 6:56:28 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: BGHater

Well, it’s not like they had a publication deadline, or anything.


6 posted on 10/04/2008 6:57:16 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: BGHater

ya.. them cave painters were unionized. rofl


7 posted on 10/04/2008 6:57:40 PM PDT by Ancient Drive
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To: BGHater

come on. this doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. 20,000 years to work on a painting? something is wrong.


8 posted on 10/04/2008 6:59:02 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Betcha they're good. Why shouldn't they be? Their one mistake was giving up me!)
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To: BGHater
but a pioneering technique is allowing researchers to date cave art accurately for the first time

I think the new technique has flaws. Do they suppose each generation told the next to add one more stroke to the painting?

9 posted on 10/04/2008 6:59:19 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: BGHater

This doesn’t have the smell of truth about it. Uranium series dating usually applies to times much further back than European cave dwellers. I’d like to see something more solid on the dating techniques they used.


10 posted on 10/04/2008 6:59:40 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: BGHater

Dang. Democrats in the Stone Age? Who would think they would have survived?


11 posted on 10/04/2008 7:01:44 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: BGHater

Gotta love persistence.


12 posted on 10/04/2008 7:03:23 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Paying taxes for bank bailouts is apparently the patriotic thing to do. [/sarc])
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To: BGHater

“Prehistoric cave paintings took up to 20,000 years to complete”

This is just a story to make Illinois road construction schedules palatable.


13 posted on 10/04/2008 7:06:58 PM PDT by Proud2BeRight
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To: BGHater

It sounds like a government project.


14 posted on 10/04/2008 7:07:40 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: BGHater
So, what's the point.....Oh, yeh...GRANT MONEY....

How this gig works...

I present an hypothesis...and get a grant...a nice grant that'll fund me for a couple of years.

Then my buddy proposes a different hypothosis...and he gets a grant...a nice grant.

Me and my buddy meet every morning for coffee. We toast to: It's a great life because no one really, really gives a damn about the cave paintings...They're simply cooool.

15 posted on 10/04/2008 7:09:36 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (I'm planting corn...Have to feed my car...)
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To: aimhigh
Do they suppose each generation told the next to add one more stroke to the painting?

No, that would be silly.

More likely they improved on previous paintings through overpainting and rejuvenation. That's why you have multiple layers dating to different times.

16 posted on 10/04/2008 7:19:56 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: BGHater

You put down your brush in a dark cave and you can’t find it again.


17 posted on 10/04/2008 7:22:31 PM PDT by Kiss Me Hardy
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To: ari-freedom

I think that the authors must have been journalism majors.

I bet what the scientists are saying is that the paintings were worked on continuously for 20,000 years.

I suspect that they were changed, refreshed, added to, subtracted from and just generally monkeyed with as the local peoples went about there lives and recorded their world on those walls for 200 centuries.


18 posted on 10/04/2008 7:22:32 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Coyoteman

It may have been a ritualistic thing that each generation worked on. It would be interesting to see how much change there was over that length of time.


19 posted on 10/04/2008 7:22:39 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Paying taxes for bank bailouts is apparently the patriotic thing to do. [/sarc])
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To: El Sordo

I bet what the scientists are saying is that the paintings were worked on continuously for 20,000 years.

yes and that still doesn’t make much sense. 20,000 years is an extremely long time to work on one painting in a cave.


20 posted on 10/04/2008 7:26:42 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Betcha they're good. Why shouldn't they be? Their one mistake was giving up me!)
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To: BGHater

And if we believe in evolution, and of course we all do, the conclusion to draw is that the paintings were started by naked apes and completed by a man in a Georgio Armani suit.


21 posted on 10/04/2008 7:30:19 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Are you ready to pray for Teddy?)
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To: BGHater; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Boy, their arms must have been tired when they got done.
they are making you and the Post Office look bad with their speed
:'P Yeah, that's funny. ;')

Thanks BGHater.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


22 posted on 10/04/2008 7:35:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: BGHater

Makes more sense that something is incorrect in the dating process.


23 posted on 10/04/2008 7:37:01 PM PDT by bvw
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To: BGHater
Thanks for the archaeology posts!

But...

I'm still waiting for the discovery of a cave where fishermen immortalized 20,000 years of "It was T - H - I - S big!!!" stories... '-)

24 posted on 10/04/2008 7:39:09 PM PDT by TXnMA (To anger a conservative: lie about him. To anger a liberal: tell the truth...)
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To: TXnMA

Heh.

No doubt they are in here somewhere.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australian-history-rewritten-in-rock-art-951828.html


25 posted on 10/04/2008 7:42:34 PM PDT by BGHater (Democracy is the road to socialism.)
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To: ari-freedom

IIRC, there are a fair number of paintings throughout the cave network.

But don’t quote me on that.


26 posted on 10/04/2008 7:43:22 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Revolting cat!

“...the paintings were started by naked apes and completed by a man in a Georgio Armani suit.”

Something like this, perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uw03hS_EMY


27 posted on 10/04/2008 7:53:09 PM PDT by GoodDay (McCain-Palin '08)
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To: BGHater

Phtttt! I can decipher the paintings:

“Save money on your bison insurance by switching to Geico. It’s so easy, a cave man can do it.”


28 posted on 10/04/2008 7:56:18 PM PDT by LRS (NO DRILLING; NO PEACE!)
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To: Proud2BeRight

Now that was funny!


29 posted on 10/04/2008 7:56:55 PM PDT by hunter112 (Gov. Palin is ten times the woman Hillary could've hoped to be, if she had stayed a "Goldwater Girl")
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To: BGHater

And calcium carbonate deposition rate is known for the past 20,000 years?


30 posted on 10/04/2008 8:03:45 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: BGHater
Thanks for that link! I actually believe that I'd rather explore the Australian Aboriginal rock art sites than to visit Altamira and Lascaux, etc...

When I lecture on archaeology and demonstrate flintknapping to school classes, I usually wear a necklace that includes some red "beads". After I let the kids handle the necklace, I like to explain that those red "beads" are actually indigestible "Mountain Coral" beans, and that they came from an Indian rockshelter in a side canyon off the Pecos River in West Texas. Then I tell them that the beans were there because the only visitors to that shelter between the Indians and my archaeological survey crew were goats -- and that the beans had passed through the goats' intestinal tracts. LOL!!! I usually get some funny reactions!!

We actually made it into several shelters that even the goats had not reached. To know that we were the first to see those beautiful pictographs since the indians who made them (and who left their straw sandals and mats behind) was quite a stirring experience...

31 posted on 10/04/2008 8:19:30 PM PDT by TXnMA (To anger a conservative: lie about him. To anger a liberal: tell the truth...)
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To: BGHater

That’s almost as long as the Boston “Big Dig!”


32 posted on 10/04/2008 8:22:22 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: BGHater

I really dont know if I believe that.


33 posted on 10/04/2008 8:51:54 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
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To: TXnMA

some interesting arnhemland image galleries on this site:

http://www.arnhemland-safaris.com/


34 posted on 10/04/2008 8:55:34 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: count-your-change

I hope they got paid by the hour....


35 posted on 10/04/2008 8:57:56 PM PDT by njslim
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks for the link! After seeing those galleries, I know I’d far rather spend a week or two at Davidson’s camp than anywhere in Europe!


36 posted on 10/04/2008 9:09:24 PM PDT by TXnMA (To anger a conservative: lie about him. To anger a liberal: tell the truth...)
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To: BGHater
Did they find the electric lights that were used in the caves to do the paintings, or did they use battery powered lights, or maybe they used mirrors to send the sun light in?

How can they use uranium to determine 20,000 years?

37 posted on 10/05/2008 4:35:40 AM PDT by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the Royal 100 Club)
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To: BGHater

Just a bunch of graffitti by prehistoric taggers......


38 posted on 10/05/2008 4:38:21 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Polar bears who suffer depression and anxiety due to the global warming threat are bi-polar bears)
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To: BGHater

Think of the overtime pay!


39 posted on 10/05/2008 7:23:32 AM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
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To: TXnMA

“those beautiful pictographs”

Are there reproductions on line?


40 posted on 10/05/2008 8:20:30 AM PDT by dsc
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To: BGHater

When “researchers” become dazzled by technology new to them and the promise of grant monies, fancy takes flight into improbable realms.

Leaving aside for the moment the questions regarding the decay tech application, let me mention the basic questions the have intrigued me as a casual reader National Geo for 50 yrs.

First very few photos ever show the scale of these and their relative positions to the proximate cave floor levels. Using the three photos published. [which may or may not be stock photos] one can see several things.

These paintings are rather large compared to humans. They seem to be rather higher than the photographed ‘researchers’.

So how did they manage to paint all this without some sort of rudimentary scaffold? Standing on the shoulders of giants?

“’ ‘Scuse me mate, but could you move a bit to the right, this bison rump turned out a bit larger than I envisioned. No, a bit more please. Yes, that’s it.”

“Yo, ground crew. I can’t see or breathe, it’s so damn smoky up here. Could flap some hides or something?”

“Pass up another paint pot. Gurn’s gone crazy with the size of the bisons again. Red, we need lots of red.”

It’s been indicated that they believe they’ve discovered ancient charcoal in the chambers. Where are the traces of fossilized scaffold elements?

Now let’s consider lighting. These caves are....surprise!...dark. Ok, so where is the evidence of ground fires, the easiest means of illuminating the space? Maybe the charcoal sticks? And where are the carbon smudges on the walls and ceilings from any fires? Show me the calcified skim on the carbon smoke stains.

There are more basic forensic questions but the really big one is this,

What other directed and focused human endeavor has endured continuously for 20,000 years?

One would think that 20,000 years of tracking back and forth, forth and back of painters priests, pilgrims and looters would have produced some damn impressive pathways especially in stone. Let’s see some aerial recon photos.

...maybe the locations are just inter-galactic pit-stops for space aliens


41 posted on 10/05/2008 9:13:59 AM PDT by Covenantor (The world's slowest paint by the numbers work.)
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To: dsc
I'll check. Don't know if the archaeological report (survey prior to construction of I-10) has adequate images.

There are a few color photos on http://www.texassbeyondhistory.net -- such as this

and this

(Those are, of course, pictographs [paintings], which are sometimes painted over petroglyphs [engravings])...

42 posted on 10/05/2008 11:11:12 AM PDT by TXnMA (To anger a conservative: lie about him. To anger a liberal: tell the truth...)
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To: TXnMA

Thanks much.


43 posted on 10/05/2008 9:07:31 PM PDT by dsc
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To: BGHater

The paintings look anything but primitive. They are very well done.


44 posted on 10/05/2008 9:12:44 PM PDT by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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To: BGHater

Primary rule of art, “When you’re done, stop.”


45 posted on 10/06/2008 12:20:22 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: ari-freedom

Give it time.

The sphinx has been worked on for 4500 years.


46 posted on 10/06/2008 12:26:32 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

The sphinx has been worked on for 4500 years.

yeah? it can sure use a nose job!


47 posted on 10/06/2008 12:30:59 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Betcha they're good. Why shouldn't they be? Their one mistake was giving up me!)
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To: ari-freedom

I figure they’ll fix that with sheets of carbon nanotubes sometime after the Vulcans arrive.


48 posted on 10/06/2008 12:35:33 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: bvw
"Makes more sense that something is incorrect in the dating process."

====================================

Seems the obvious answer but no one seems to want to talk about that or its implications.

49 posted on 10/06/2008 12:38:24 PM PDT by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: BGHater; Fred Nerks
Well, this is intersting because of the implications.

These caves were shamanistic religious sites where prehistoric people would go to invoke magic for their hunt.

They used the same caves for 20,000 years or so to paint their images and invoke the strength and focus they would need to survive another winter, as the herds moved from their summer to their winter grazing areas.

Now lets think about that. Christianity has a history that is about 2000 years old.

These hunters performed their ritual painting for ten times that long, and their spiritual path worked for them over a very long period of time indeed.

I believe that this art is sacred art. It has a godliness about it. One can imagine them being concerned for the survival of their families, of having enough fur, meat, fat and bone to make the impliments, clothes, food and medications they would need for the cold winters. All this without steel , just stone.

They must have been extraordinarily blessed and incredibly tough.

We are their result.

I feel sort of thankful to these distant ancestors.

I am going to throw a steak on the coals, and think about them a little, maybe raise a glass.

50 posted on 10/06/2008 5:17:11 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (http://www.theobamafile.com/))
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