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Debate filled with tension, but little venom [Echoes of Jimmy Carter]
The Seattle Times ^ | 10/08/08 | Frank Bruni

Posted on 10/08/2008 5:11:17 AM PDT by XR7

Neither presidential candidate was selling "morning in America." At times it seemed more like a competition to see who could paint the gloaming in the least unsettling hues.

Tuesday night's presidential debate was remarkable for the dourness of its mood...the frequently subdued demeanors of the candidates even as they tore into each other, which they did with somewhat less vigor and venom than expected, given how little time remains until Election Day, given how nasty the campaign had turned in recent days.

The debate — the second of three, and the only one to be conducted in a town-hall style — came on a day the stock market closed nearly 1,700 points lower than it had on the day of their first debate. Even then, Sen. Barack Obama already was talking of the country's worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

The situation now looks gloomier still, with markets in other continents tumbling — with a world of hurt at hand. And the sort of can-do, feel-good, rah-rah exuberance that candidates sometimes bring to forums like Tuesday night's was in conspicuously short supply.

"I'm going to ask the American people to understand that there are some programs we're going to have to eliminate," Sen. John McCain said at one point, and he said it not as a defiant assertion of waste but as a rueful acceptance of reality.

Obama, referring to rising oil prices and limited oil supplies, said moments later, "There is going to be the need for each and every one of us to start thinking about how we use energy."

There were echoes — almost — of Jimmy Carter in that sentence. When was the last time a candidate vying for the highest office in the land summoned a memory of him rather than Ronald Reagan?

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bho; carter; debate; debates; election2008; hussein; jimmycarter; malaise; mccain; mcmouse; obama; obamabinladen; obamasama; osamabama; rats; reagan; ronaldreagan
Obama, referring to rising oil prices and limited oil supplies, said moments later, "There is going to be the need for each and every one of us to start thinking about how we use energy."

There were echoes — almost — of Jimmy Carter in that sentence. When was the last time a candidate vying for the highest office in the land summoned a memory of him rather than Ronald Reagan?

And, we do not seem to be producing anymore Ronald Reagans, sadly.
The men of "The Greatest Generation" are quickly all passing into eternity.

[McCain] insisted as well that he alone had a record of bipartisanship — that Obama was too liberal to reach across party lines.

Is it just me, or have we all just about had it with all the wimpy "reaching across party lines" talk?

1 posted on 10/08/2008 5:11:17 AM PDT by XR7
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To: XR7

I didn’t watch the debate.
Did McCain even bother to mention the whole mortgage fiasco, ACORN, Freddie and Fannie, and the reason the country is even in this mess?
I’m guessing that he did not.
What the HELL is the matter with him?
It is MADDENING!


2 posted on 10/08/2008 5:13:29 AM PDT by a real Sheila (Just say NObama!)
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To: XR7
Both campaigns are being run by marketing departments and the agenda is set outside the democratic process. What they've decided to call centrist, the ground both candidates want to be on, is way too far away from the traditional Republican Party base - i.e. conservatives. After the primary, Obama "changed" himself on several key issues to become McCain and left McCain with really - nothing to run on. It was a reversal of the McCain tactic to define himself early as being so far left as to be in Obama's space. It's a personality contest now. Smart move by the Obama campaign - just amazes me that he got away with it. (Oh the irony - Obama would be 4 more years of Bush)

McCain is a senator and his discussion and debate is a mix between things that would work in discussions with other senators and entirely missing opportunities to say something meaningful to the American people because he's run by his marketing department - just pushing his brand no matter what the question is. It doesn't help McCain that Obama can be on three sides of the same issue all in the same sentence and completely opposite what he said earlier and fill in the argument gaps by making things up and sounding authoritative and convincing when he does it. Obama reminds me of Johnnie Cochran as portrayed in a South Park episode delivering the Chewbacca defense. Ladies and gentlemen look at this picture of Chewbacca. It just doesn't make any sense. I don't make any sense. And it's working for him. The old white guy doesn't know how to respond to it. McCain is gonna lose.

I might have enough material to explain once again post 2nd debate how he could win. Not that I'm optimistic that the above pattern will change - but at least in theory - if he got real for a while and engaged in real democratic (small d) thinking - he could win. And if he did that, it would also be a great service to his country.
3 posted on 10/08/2008 5:14:15 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: XR7

McCain needs this kind of attack:

“Where are Obama’s college transcripts and writings, that we might evaluate his formative years?”
“Where are Obamas’s executive qualifications, given that he gained office unopposed, and has initiated no meaningful legislation?”
“Should we place more confidence in his liberal voting record of raising taxes and undermining national defense, or should we believe his pandering campaign rhetoric?”
“Not a record to be trusted in these challenging times!”


4 posted on 10/08/2008 5:23:17 AM PDT by G Larry ("Disgust" is a valid expression!-Vote Family Values!)
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To: a real Sheila
Did McCain even bother to mention the whole mortgage fiasco, ACORN, Freddie and Fannie, and the reason the country is even in this mess?

McCain pointed the finger at the Democrats and Obama for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

McCain hit several zingers last night. Too many people are consumed with waiting for McCain to hit a home run out of the park. McCain, rather is on the mound, throwing some nasty pithes at Obama that is making Obama look very bad at the plate.

Voters are going to start doubting Obama's ability to lead when McCain finishes.

5 posted on 10/08/2008 5:25:13 AM PDT by TennTuxedo
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To: a real Sheila
With NBC and Brokaw putting on the show you should not be surprised. It was not a town-hall debate, in fact hardly a debate at all. Brokaw and company selected the questions to be used, and carefully managed the evening to assure it ended according to their script. And it did.

There was no place, IMO, where McCain could have logically moved it to character issues. This, of course, is a major issue.

6 posted on 10/08/2008 5:26:32 AM PDT by elpadre (nation)
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To: TennTuxedo
McCain, rather is on the mound, throwing some nasty pithes at Obama that is making Obama look very bad at the plate.

Too bad the game is almost over.

7 posted on 10/08/2008 5:31:32 AM PDT by XR7
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To: a real Sheila

Yes he mentioned it but there was no follow up and it didn’t seem to hit home. No one’s talking about it this morning. I’ll be listening to Rush today and I’m guessing he’s going to be really pissed McCain didn’t unload on Barry.


8 posted on 10/08/2008 5:32:09 AM PDT by saganite (Obama is a political STD)
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To: XR7

McCain is going to win.


9 posted on 10/08/2008 5:32:52 AM PDT by TennTuxedo
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To: elpadre

It was boring because it was pretty much a rehash of the first debate. McCain got in some good hits but he didn’t do it well enough, IMO. I somehow doubt that voter fraud, Ayers, and other things that hurt 0bama will be in the last debate either. McCain talks a lot about freedom but didn’t bring up “truth squads” and other threats like that. Maybe he can do it in the last debate but by then I don’t think there will be enough time to change the game.

Will Schieffer be any better than the other two by asking about gun control, abortion, the fairness doctrine and other hot issues? I somehow doubt it but those are areas where McCain could score some points.


10 posted on 10/08/2008 5:35:03 AM PDT by TNCMAXQ
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To: XR7
Too bad the game is almost over.

Whatever. Look at past polls from other elections. In the end, the people will vote on who can effectively step in to do the job. We are still coming off the economic crisis bump for Nobama. That is starting to fade.

11 posted on 10/08/2008 5:35:09 AM PDT by ilgipper
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To: saganite
I’ll be listening to Rush today and I’m guessing he’s going to be really pissed McCain didn’t unload on Barry.

I often wonder why these so-called conservative candidates don't have Rush coaching them, instead of their wussy handlers. Seems that Rush has pretty good success at feeling the pulse of the country. Why doesn't McCain, et al, pay attention?

12 posted on 10/08/2008 5:35:43 AM PDT by XR7
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To: ilgipper
We are still coming off the economic crisis bump for Nobama. That is starting to fade.

Yeah.
Maybe.
But there is only one debate left.
And, McCain did a good job last night to make sure nobody watches the next one.

13 posted on 10/08/2008 5:37:29 AM PDT by XR7
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To: XR7
Is it just me, or have we all just about had it with all the wimpy "reaching across party lines" talk?

This is a rino problem, but for all it's worth McCain has actually done it! McCain can actually point out the fact he's reached across party lines and sided with DBM/dems. Obama is just a liberal, socialist, hack, who hasn't done jack!

I'm waiting for the October surprise, McCain better think about bringing it because he didn't score any points with the base last night!

14 posted on 10/08/2008 5:37:38 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Vote Conservative Repuplican!!)
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To: XR7

Rush said the other day that if he got lost driving around and came within 5 miles of McCain election headquarters he would be arrested. There’s zero love lost between those two.


15 posted on 10/08/2008 5:43:48 AM PDT by saganite (Obama is a political STD)
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To: TNCMAXQ

Four debates and all four moderators are liberal Democrats—perhaps Brokaw is the least partisan and Schieffer the most partisan of the four.


16 posted on 10/08/2008 5:46:21 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: saganite
There’s zero love lost between those two.

What about love of country, for cryin' out loud!

17 posted on 10/08/2008 5:48:30 AM PDT by XR7
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To: XR7

It’s over.

Obama wins.

If Mclame thought that acting like the rats was going to improve his election chances he is mistaken.

I felt like I was watching a sinking ship when he said that he wants to bail out home mortgages.

McLame helped me with getting to sleep though.


18 posted on 10/08/2008 5:52:54 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo
The debates are meaningless.

There are more of THEM [libs] than there are of US. IMHO, it is that simple.

19 posted on 10/08/2008 5:56:19 AM PDT by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
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To: XR7
I often wonder why these so-called conservative candidates don't have Rush coaching them, instead of their wussy handlers

I think it is safe to say the politicians that (at least) pretend to be conservative listen to Rush and other conservative commentary, and likely read on sites like Free Republic. In the case of Rush, he is so vilified by the left, I think politicians are better served to leave him in that role and take his advice by proxy.

20 posted on 10/08/2008 5:56:36 AM PDT by IamConservative (On 11/4, remember 9/11...)
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To: XR7; All

I think that the McCain camp is trying to “hold serve” until we get closer to Nov. 4, and then unleash whatever trump card they’ve got stashed away (whitey video, etc.)

Just my musings.........


21 posted on 10/08/2008 5:57:31 AM PDT by TheRobb7 (Has "Movement Conservatism" FINALLY been reborn?)
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To: IamConservative
I think politicians are better served to leave him in that role and take his advice by proxy.

Too bad McCain doesn't seem to be heeding it.

22 posted on 10/08/2008 5:58:44 AM PDT by XR7
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To: XR7

Last night did feel a little like ‘sundown at the not-okay corral’.


23 posted on 10/08/2008 5:59:32 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: TheRobb7
I think that the McCain camp is trying to “hold serve” until we get closer to Nov. 4, and then unleash whatever trump card they’ve got stashed away...

Then they have lost.
A huge chunk of voters vote absentee and an even larger percentage vote by mail - all well before Election Day.

24 posted on 10/08/2008 6:01:47 AM PDT by XR7
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Here.
This gives me a glimmer of hope: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuuh98PM4M


25 posted on 10/08/2008 6:08:12 AM PDT by XR7
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To: KeyLargo
It’s over. Obama wins. If Mclame thought that acting like the rats was going to improve his election chances he is mistaken. I felt like I was watching a sinking ship when he said that he wants to bail out home mortgages.

McCain was McCain, and that was the problem. He doesn't understand supply side economics. Obama's main idea was make the greedy rich pay, and McCain basically agrees with him on this, and said so. Because he has to, McCain pays lip service to tax cuts, but he's really all about hair shirt budget balancing, not ecomomic growth. He's Bob Dole, not Ronald Reagan.

In the Clinton vs Dole debates, voters saw Clinton likes me, has new ideas. Dole is old. This is a repeat.

I see one good in this. The worldwide asset deflation is far from over. Now Democrats, not Republicans will be in charge as it unfolds.

26 posted on 10/08/2008 6:11:16 AM PDT by SupplySider
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To: SupplySider
The worldwide asset deflation is far from over. Now Democrats, not Republicans will be in charge as it unfolds.

And they will saddle generations to come with unconstitutional burdens that will make the New Deal pale in comparison.

27 posted on 10/08/2008 6:18:05 AM PDT by XR7
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To: XR7
"There is going to be the need for each and every one of us to start thinking about how we use energy."

This is the key to why Obama will lead to the second great depression. Energy if the catalyst of productivity. Restrict the use of energy and you restrict productivity. Increases in productivity are what drive growth in the economy. Obama plans resticted energy use which will result in restricted productivity, recession and given our current economic situation, most likely depression.

28 posted on 10/08/2008 6:21:24 AM PDT by CMAC51
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To: XR7
And they will saddle generations to come with unconstitutional burdens that will make the New Deal pale in comparison.

I hope you're wrong but I fear you're right. Tax rates and trade deals can be undone, but a National Health (sic) Care system would never be undone.

29 posted on 10/08/2008 6:51:26 AM PDT by SupplySider
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To: elpadre

Which is why brokejaw cherry picked the questions...no issues like guns, abortion, death penalty like would occur in normal town hall debates between pols..........all those issues make bho look bad and out of touch with mainstream USA.


30 posted on 10/08/2008 7:26:25 AM PDT by GailA ( Valor Quilts for our wounded Troops....I'm a quilt-aholic!!!)
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To: XR7

I posted this in another debate thread. This would have been much more exciting if we had McCain debate Joe and Palin debate Obama. Why don’t we have a four-free-for all and be done with it and have Jerry Springer be the moderator.


31 posted on 10/08/2008 9:21:32 AM PDT by pray4liberty (The Lord is on the side of the truly righteous. The MSM is not.)
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To: XR7
And they will saddle generations to come with unconstitutional burdens that will make the New Deal pale in comparison.

I see a run on pitchforks, tar and feathers.

32 posted on 10/08/2008 9:23:06 AM PDT by pray4liberty (The Lord is on the side of the truly righteous. The MSM is not.)
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To: TennTuxedo
McCain is going to win.

I like your optimism.

Here.
This gives me a glimmer of hope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuuh98PM4M

33 posted on 10/08/2008 10:54:54 PM PDT by XR7
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