Posted on 10/08/2008 7:09:47 AM PDT by NCDragon
While I'm NOT advocating Civil War, or that our beloved country is close to any such conflict, I was reminded of Lincoln's words at a low point in the conflict...and how they seem to "fit" the current situation between the two political parties of the US.
"The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present (civil war)... it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party -- and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say that this is probably true -- that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere great power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And, having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds." (Parentheses added by me to allow for present time).
(Excerpt) Read more at showcase.netins.net ...
Sarah gets it.
I believe that when two sides are involved in a conflict, it is not God’s will that one or the other win. God has given them both free will to carry out their respective aspirations, no matter which seems right or wrong. What matters is that once a victor is established, that they then do God’s will in managing affairs. Otherwise judgement descends upon them.
That whoever becomes president, it’s God’s will...along with everything else that has happened, is happening, and will happen.
How can anyone not be on God’s side? He created everyone, knowing what they will do.
We have been in a Civil Cold War for decades now, between capitalism and morality, on one side, and socialism and decadence on the other.. The latter continue to make gains, and on the eve of the Great Battle of 2008, the prospects for the former are grim.
I don't pretend to understand, but it's hard to believe that Adolph Hitler, Joe Stalin, etc. were on GOD's side.
I can't see how someone who advocates killing unborn children could possibly be on GOD's side.
Maybe it is part of a much larger plan that I can't comprehend.
Only God knows what his plan is. I liked McCain’s answer to the last question last night, “What don’t you know?” He said he doesn’t know what the future holds. That’s honesty! But we do know that God knows the future. So we need to humbly submit to him and trust him, that his perfect will is going to be done. Lincoln understood this. He was humbled by the awesome responsibilities of the presidency during a very trying time. I believe McCain and Palin would respond the same way. I can’t say I think Obama and Biden would.
>>>”The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time.
It is unarguable that the democratic party (those in power) are wrong, and actively working against God. Their use of His name in my view is clearly deceptive or grossly mis-informed. This is not to generalize anyone’s party affiliation, but rather to state the obvious that our two party system has never been SO polarized along religious lines. At the same time, there is no question that both parties also contain within them significant levels of those who ARE on God’s side as well as those who are against Him. (I know good christians who have actually expressed leanings towards Obama, and I know atheists and pagens that will vote for McCain.)
The simple reason why you see both parties claiming allegiance to God is because it is well known that over 80-90% of the world’s population believes in some form of deity.
>>> In the present (civil war)... it is quite possible that God’s purpose is something different from the purpose of either party
Very true... and the purpose which sits at the top of God’s list is to win the hearts and souls of as many human beings as possible before he can tolerate sin no longer.
How God’s will and purpose relates to America’s internal and worldwide standing hinges upon his ultimate purpose and our proximity to the great tribulation.
America has been steadily losing the war against socialism for the last 30 years at least... It’s ultimate fall to socialism is inevitable. Its not a matter of if, but rather a matter of when. Many would argue that the USA is already socialized beyond recovery.
If America’s continued prosperity and military strength better serves God’s will abroad in relation to end times, McCain will win.
If America’s strength and position in the world represents a hindrance of God’s will in the middle east as we approach the Tribulation, Obama will win.
Only God knows how close we are to the end, and how He wishes to use America to further His plans worldwide.
For me, the results of the upcoming election will tell me a lot more about how close we really are.
This is NOT to say that Obama is the anti-Christ or that he himself is anti-God. He simply represents a significant loss to America’s prosperity and strength in the world, not to mention how he will either bless or curse Israel.
bump
Well, I figure God knew what these individuals were going to do in their lives, and yet He still created them. If He truly has a plan for everyone, then they and their actions must be in His plan also.
I sure can’t figure it out.
Since God knows the future, doesn’t He already know who will humbly submit to Him or not? Won’t God’s will be done, regardless of what we do?
“Won’t God’s will be done, regardless of what we do?”
The relationship of God’s sovereignty and foreknowledge to the reality of our free choice has always been one of the insolubles of theology. We know this: Our duty is to submit to God, love him, trust him, and obey him. This gives us the right attitude about all of the things going on around us. For me, willingness to have a humble, submitted relationship with God is the main determiner of potential greatness in a leader. Lincoln instinctively understood this.
I guess that’s where the problem with different religions and beliefs messes things up. Since God has foreknowledge of someone, then He must know what and how and why they will believe...yet He still creates them, knowing the confusion that will ensue.
“yet He still creates them, knowing the confusion that will ensue.”
I believe this is the main reason God has graciously condescended to reveal himself to us in his Word, the Bible, and in his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. He knows that not all will accept his free offer of forgiveness and everlasting life, but he has shown us our duty. The choice is ours.
But those that God creates, knowing they will not be Christians, what about them?
“But those that God creates, knowing they will not be Christians, what about them?”
What they will or won’t be is their free choice. God’s perfect foreknowledge includes knowledge of all of the choices everyone will make. It’s one’s own responsibility.
So, since God’s foreknowledge includes knowledge of their choices, and He knows prior to creating them that they will not choose Christianity, does that mean that God knowingly creates people that will not gain entrance to heaven?
“. . . does that mean that God knowingly creates people that will not gain entrance to heaven?”
I believe that God creates everyone with the freedom to choose to have faith in him. Whether they will or not is their own choice. With regard to the details of that faith, he holds everyone responsible for acting according to the light they have. I have found the writings of John Wesley very helpful, by the way. Here’s a link with some very good resources: http://wesley.nnu.edu/john_wesley/sermons/topic.htm
Do you agree that God knows what faith each of us will choose prior to our creation?
All I know is that MY god has a plan, has planned every step of this election. I may not know what the plan of god may be, but I know that my god is infallable, HE has chosen this path for us to follow. The god that is MY god is pleased.
Be praised.
Even during battle or times of stress, God is great.
Other than believing that there is God, not a mine or yours, I agree.
Did you join, just to say that?
My apologies, did I say something wrong?
Nope just curious. It’s just that It was the only comment you’ve made since you joined the other day.
Sarah Palin didnt make that Quote, Abe Linoln said that first.
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