Skip to comments.Some Dallas-Fort Worth Catholics irked by bishops' letter on abortion
Posted on 10/13/2008 3:18:26 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Some North Texas Catholics are upset with a letter written and distributed by their local bishops, saying it amounts to an endorsement of GOP presidential candidate Sen. John McCain.
The letter by Bishop Kevin Farrell of the Diocese of Dallas and Bishop Kevin Vann of the Diocese of Fort Worth says in part: To vote for a candidate who supports the intrinsic evil of abortion or `abortion rights when there is morally acceptable alternative would be to cooperate in the evil and, therefore, morally impermissible.
Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic Party presidential candidate, supports abortion rights. Sen. McCain favors overturning Roe vs. Wade, the U.S. Supreme Court decision that protects the right to an abortion.
The bishops letter was distributed or read at parishes across the Diocese of Dallas this weekend. The Fort Worth diocese is distributing the letter through its newspaper, which is being mailed to all registered Catholic families in the diocese.
Nicole LeBlanc said several people walked out of Dallas' Holy Trinity Catholic Church during the 11 a.m. Sunday Mass, when the letter was read at the time usually reserved for a homily.
Ms. LeBlanc, an Obama supporter, said she, too, was upset.
As a Catholic, were taught about being independent moral agents with free will, she said. That letter from the bishops is basically telling us that if we vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights, we are basically immoral and our souls are imperiled.
Ms. LeBlanc also said she felt the letter has gone too far towards bringing political endorsements in the church, which is obviously not legal.
Ms. LeBlanc said a protest of the letter is likely to occur outside the pastoral center of the Dallas Diocese this Wednesday afternoon.
(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...
She can always join the Episcopalians.
Ms. LeBlanc, that teaching ends on the subject of murder. It’s ok to walk out of the Catholic Church when they tell you that abortion (i.e. murder) is intrinsically wrong. Just remember, it’s not ok to walk back in.
Yes we have free will but it is the Bishop’s job to guide us not to sin.
This idiot woman need a new church.
Bishops inform the flock about the stance of the church on life and the followers get mad - why? How quaint.
Ah.... the unquantifiable “some”. I have that right up there next to “sources close to” on my (lack of) credibility meter. By the way, isn’t it s stretch to characterize someone as Catholic, a belief based system, who doesn’t believe the governing principles?
Ahhhh, yeah. Pretty well sums it up
Three cheers for the Bishops with the spine. They know that if they don’t warn these lost souls, they will themselves be damned.
“As a Catholic, were taught about being independent moral agents with free will, she said. That letter from the bishops is basically telling us that if we vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights, we are basically immoral and our souls are imperiled.”
Duh... Wonder what part of killing babies she doesn’t understand?
It’s not a social club. If you don’t like being a disciple, you can leave.
The Catholic Church is a Monarchy not a democracy and she can take it up with the King, Christ.
Uh, Ms. LeBlanc, you’re not a Catholic!
Yes, independent moral agents with free will, so you should possess the common sense that goes along with it. Know when sin is sin. Being an agent of free will is not a license to go out and kill unborn babies! If you disagree with the letter, chances are you aren't in truth, a practicing Christian, not to mention Catholic.
That’s a low blow. We have way too many loony toon liberals already.
Yes dear, it goes like this. There are two men running to be POTUS. One likes the idea of killing babies upto and even after birth. The other one does not.
In saying that Cathoics cannot vote for the former and be Catholics, the Bishops are saying you shouldn't vote for Obama. Feel free however to not vote for McCain or to find a different God that likes child sacrifice.
Yeah, the “Episcopalian Chess Club” - they can’t tell a bishop from a queen.
View this and it along- it is a very powerful short message
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We realize the interest in our site is due in large part to the upcoming election. The power of our short 3:30 minute film has reached every state and many countries. Tens of thousands of viewers are watching the film in states where the Catholic vote will be decisive.
Evangelicals, Baptists, and Mormons and others have been spreading the word standing proud with Catholics this election.”
You don’t get it both ways. Abortion or pro life. You can’t be partially against abortion, any more than a woman could be partially pregnant.
Some things are absolutely true whether we want them to be or not.
The thought of a little aborted fetus being ground up, as in The Netherlands, or smashed, as in Spain, shouldn’t just irk us. We should be aghast.
Or, the idea of a tiny, new born, aborted baby that actually lives, being left all alone, uncovered, to die on some table or pile of clothes in a closet, should make people who are involved in it go stark raving mad.
I saw a video of the man who invented partial birth abortions talking about it to a big group of people. They applauded him. I cannot imagine having that blood on my hands. You might as well hack off the baby’s head, a la islam.
Free will to decide between doing right or wrong, not the free will to define right and wrong. What an idiot!
That letter from the bishops is basically telling us that if we vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights, we are basically immoral and our souls are imperiled.
Yes dear. Killing babies is bad for the soul.
You're picking your priorities with your own free will, Mizz LeBlank
What these Liberals are really saying is:
“Don’t tell me how to be a Christian, I can decide all that stuff for myself. I don’t need the Word of God to tell me what to do. Abortion is just a relative thingy, after all”.
Note to wanna be Catholics: Please see Psalm 139. That is of course, if they even read the Bible.
They are dancing on the trapdoor of hell.
LOL!!! Good one.
DUH, Nicole....you have free will to do anything but it’s the Church’s job to tell you what’s right and what’s wrong.....if you so choose to do wrong after you know, well.....
It all comes down to this: Choose Life.
Who was the very first person on earth to acknowledge Jesus Christ for who He is? The unborn baby (John) still in his mother’s womb.
My thoughts exactly! Ms. LeBlanc - Go find a Unitarian church - it would be more to your liking.
The most honest approach would be, "my imaginary friends", but that would get too close to the actual truth.
“Yeah, the Episcopalian Chess Club - they cant tell a bishop from a queen.”
Oh, that’s gonna leave a mark.
Our pastor here in Vermont, which is certainly not a conservative state, said much the same last week. And a visiting priest who took his place today while he was on vacation also gave us this message.
He said, Don’t worry, I’m not going to tell you who to vote for. But, he said, as Catholics we must vote in support of the right to life from conception to natural death.
I’m especially glad to hear this being said in November, because in recent decades the bishops have tended to avoid this issue around election time for fear of sounding political or losing a tax exemption—until now.
This lady is upset about more than just abortion. Read the whole letter that the Bishops sent. (It’s very long but worth the read.) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2104144/posts
I think she listened as long as she could stand there and have her feet held to the fire. When the heat got too hot for her liking, she bailed.
That’s one of the hard parts of being a Christian, you don’t get to protest the truths with which you don’t agree! Take all of God’s word as true or none of it. In that respect, you absolutely do have free will.
The Florida bishops (with two exceptions, Wenski and Dewane) have been cowering on this and one of them (my bishop) sent out a letter this weekend which he claimed came from the NCCB and the Florida bishops’ council telling people that they could not distribute certain material around the church, etc. The things he mentioned were the Priests for Life issues guide and a number of other orthodox things, none of which endorsed a party or a politician. My bishop used to be pro-life, but now he’s a “seamless garment” type, and he obviously is going to vote for Obama. The problem is that he wants to make sure the laity doesn’t hear any inconvenient facts, and he is using this approach - “the IRS is going to shut us down if you hand out the Priests for Life brochure anywhere near the church” - to scare people into silence.
I wish I had a good bishop like Farrell or Vann. I was truly appalled to see a bishop (or maybe an entire state council of them) using the IRS to terrorize his own people.
If the shoe fits.
Why did he change?
Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard; and who can hear it?
But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you that believe not.
For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that did not believe and who he was that would betray him.
And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.
After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. And we have believed and have known that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
www.catholicplanet.com Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life):
"I would like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly."
"If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. You will come to understand that nothing is definitely lost and you will also be able to ask forgiveness from your child, who is now living in the Lord."
"With the friendly and expert help and advice of other people, and as a result of your own painful experience, you can be among the most eloquent defenders of everyone's right to life. Through your commitment to life, whether by accepting the birth of other children or by welcoming and caring for those most in need of someone to be close to them, you will become promoters of a new way of looking at human life."
-- Pope John Paul II
The above is an excerpt from the Encyclical letter of Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life) 1995, #99
Time to issue the nuns some new rulers Fur Shur.
Or, are we looking at CINOs and not real Catholics at all?
Frankly, I don't believe you can legitimately call yourself a Christian and support abortion
“several people walked out of Dallas’ Holy Trinity Catholic Church”
Hope the door didn’t hit them in the ......
“That letter from the bishops is basically telling us that if we vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights, we are basically immoral and our souls are imperiled.
I think she gets it! Eureka
PAPA BENEDICT XVI: "We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke"
Actually if the Bishops were more more successful in preaching their abortion concerns directly to women, there would be no need to convince politicians to pass laws. Heard anything about shack-jobs lately or the pill?
In a perfect world, the bishops would tell the priests to read a letter which said that voting for Obama was a mortal sin and not to receive communion if they do it. Yes, the IRS would come down on them but BRING IT ON!
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry and fed thee: thirsty and gave thee drink? Or when did we see thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked and covered thee? Or when did we see thee sick or in prison and came to thee? And the king answering shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me. Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee? Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
“Ms. LeBlanc also said she felt the letter has gone too far towards bringing political endorsements in the church, which is obviously not legal.”
I don’t know the woman, but my instinct says that if the letter from the Bishop talked about some “social justice” matter, she would have thought the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching was more inline with Obama than McCain - and she would not have felt an ounce of protest over it either.
So, does she really believe the Bishop “has gone too far towards bringing political endorsements in the church, which is obviously not legal”, or is she lying in that that principle - “political endorsements in the church” - is NOT her problem, just the particular endorsement she felt the Bishop was making?
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1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
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2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
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2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
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gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
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