Skip to comments.Court to decide if illegal immigrants' use of Social Security numbers is ID theft
Posted on 10/20/2008 12:15:43 PM PDT by engrpat
WASHINGTON The Supreme Court agreed Monday to decide whether people picked up on immigration violations also can face charges of identity theft if they use Social Security and other identification numbers that belong to others.
Federal appeals courts have split over whether the defendant must know that the phony ID numbers belong to a real person and the court said it will resolve the question.
Federal prosecutors have increasingly been bringing the more serious identity theft charges against undocumented immigrants, including many who were arrested in raids on meatpacking plants.
Defense lawyers have argued that their clients should not be charged with stealing someone elses identity because the immigrants only were seeking documentation that would allow them to work. They didnt know if the numbers were fictitious or belonged to someone else, their lawyers say.
The Bush administration, however, has said that it doesnt matter under federal law.
The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, based in St. Louis, agreed with the administration and upheld the conviction of Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa.
Flores-Figueroa, a Mexican national, worked at a steel plant in East Moline, Ill., since 2000. Originally, he worked there under an assumed name, and false Social Security and alien registration numbers. In 2006, he told his employer he wanted to be known by his real name and submitted new identification documents.
This time, though, the Social Security number belonged to someone else, and his green card number was that of yet another person. Suspicious, the employer contacted immigration authorities, who arrested Flores-Figueroa. The five-count indictment against him included two counts of aggravated identity theft.
Federal appeals courts based in Atlanta and Richmond also have ruled in the governments favor in similar cases, while the appeals court in Washington, D.C., has sided with defendants.
The case, which will be argued next year, is Flores-Figueroa v. U.S., 08-108.
There is a classic example of the reason why "LAWYERS" and "LIARS" sound so remarkably similar. Illegal aliens and their lawyers knew damned well the numbers didn't belong to THEM. That means they were STOLEN.
I completely agree. It’s just that with the whole logic thing being up side down these days, well, I was just wondering...
So if the Supreme Court rules that he cannot be charged with ID theft, what is to stop the rest of us from just making up any old SS number we want and using it? Or several? If caught, we just say we didn’t know it belonged to someone else. No problema. That this might be a recipe for chaos that undermines the entire Social Security system shouldn’t worry anyone. No sir-ee.
These days, we’re all left wondering. You take care.
I agree, what else could it be? And, more to the point, could I, as an American citizen get away with using one of the Judges’ SS #?
I was thinking that the judges may be more appropriate.
That would certainly seem to be a good question for the proponent of the claim it WAS identity theft. I’m not sure if the court would take a dim view of that argument, but it really brings the point home doesn’t it.
Isn’t this already settled law? This is a no-brainer, but then there are even more no-brainers on the Supreme Court.
Our Justice System faded from view many years ago. Now we have a Legal System. It’s purpose is to fulfill the needs of business and control the people. Guilt or innocence isn’t a subject that actually is of concern to the judges. That’s handled on TV by the womens evening shows.
Yeah. I’m sure the courts can convolute the law to make some judgment that seems to make some sort of sense.
I agree. Let’s hope they don’t. And let’s hope that hope isn’t dashed as definitively as the hope concerning Colin Powell’s endorsement was.
They're spinning so fast, they could probably be a source of power generation.
Using a fake Email address is not quite the same as using someones SS number, you can't charge items and open credit card accounts with a fake email address. One has to wonder though if you are filling out a form on the internet why a person would use a fake email, why not just ignore the form. The whole idea of filling out forms on the internet is usually to register for a site or request information. Kind of hard to get that info if you used a fake email.
No sweat; their drivers lic. with hazmat endorsement and free college tuition is in the mail. P-ss on the victim.
On the bright side Lazamataz is back. Should make thing interesting!
That’s right! Very interesting...
This should be a no-brainer; and if they apply the law the same as they would to a citizen it is a no-brainer.
If documents they use are ficticious then charge them with using false documents. If the documents they use belong to someone else- including a deceased person or a child it should be identity theft, forgery, and using false documents.
If I buy credit cards with someone’s name on them, I will be charged with identity theft and a host of other things if I use them or attempt to use them. Do you really think I could skate just by claiming I didn’t know those credit cards, or checks or whatever belonged to actual people- I thought they were just made up??
Give me a break- any and all of our laws need to be applied to illegals just as they are to citizens. Including no driver’s license, no insurance, DWI, and false documents or identity theft.
This type of thing totally ticks me off- illegals are usually given a pass on most of our laws. That needs to end.
TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 25, § 495 Contracts, deeds, and powers of attorney
“Whoever falsely makes, alters, forges, or counterfeits any deed, power of attorney, order, certificate, receipt, contract, or other writing, for the purpose of obtaining or receiving, or of enabling any other person, either directly or indirectly, to obtain or receive from the United States or any officers or agents thereof, any sum of money; or
Whoever utters or publishes as true any such false, forged, altered, or counterfeited writing, with intent to defraud the United States, knowing the same to be false, altered, forged, or counterfeited; or
Whoever transmits to, or presents at any office or officer of the United States, any such writing in support of, or in relation to, any account or claim, with intent to defraud the United States, knowing the same to be false, altered, forged, or counterfeited
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.”
TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 43, § 911 Citizen of the United States
“Whoever falsely and willfully represents himself to be a citizen of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”