Posted on 10/23/2008 4:31:28 PM PDT by LibWhacker
http://reason.com/blog/show/129620.html
Interesting idea - I would check all kinds of stuff.
The man is sick.
I got bit by a ST. Bernard when I was a kid - scared the heck out of me, but I didn’t shoot it.
The dog doesn't seem to be running at the car to me. If anything it looks like the dog might go wide around the car and past the guy. I can't quite tell if the dog turned in toward him as it approached the front of the car or not, but it doesn't look like it was going to turn away just out of reach like dogs often do when running at someone.
Instead of spending time pulling his gun, he could have made it back to open the car door.
He backs up in a controlled fashion. He probably could have made it if he rushed back, however rushing away from an aggressive dog is usually not the best idea and they are probably trained not to do so.
It all happens in a matter of seconds, so using hindsight to say what he possibly could have done in the time available to him really isn't reasonable.
He wasn't aggressive. He backed towards his car door in a controlled manner, but he didn't get there before the dog got to him.
The dog likely wanted to knock him over to lick his face.
Quite possibly, though you can usually tell the difference between a dog that wants to run of and like you while jumping on you excitedly and one attacking. We can't however tell from what we can see in the video. The officer might very well have been able to tell, but if he isn't a pet person, he might not have noticed the difference.
I had neighbors with a large black lab that was actually a danger to old people or young children because of how excitedly he would jump up on people and attempt to lick them to death. A really, really friendly dog, and was a nice dog once he got a little older and calmed down some.
Whenever I approach an unfamiliar rural homestead and get out of the car, I first get the dog situation straightened out.
Yea, I delivered pizzas for a few years in a somewhat rural area. You could usually tell the houses where the dog might be a problem before getting out of the car. Of course the people who had dogs that were a problem would always say "he won't hurt you".
If I couldn't get the people to come get their dog under control I'd just give the dog a little time to calm down, get out of the car and stand by it for a short time to let the dog get used to the fact that I was there, and then slowly head to the door. It could be a real pain when I was running behind on deliveries and there were a number of people to whom we quit delivering to because they wouldn't put their dogs inside even though they acted very aggressively.
In this case, it doesn't really look like he had the opportunity to let the dog calm down. He was walking casually towards the house. You can see him pause when he sees the dog coming, and start backing up. He stays in close to the car, which limits the how the dog can come in at him, which encourages the dog to turn away at the front of the car. However, the dog doesn't appear to have turned away.
Maybe it was just overly friendly. That would explain why it kept running strait at him. Nervously aggressive dogs tend to run at people but turn away or stop when they get close if the person doesn't turn away. This dog didn't appear to turn or stop.
I guess that leave really friendly, or really aggressive, and I can't tell the difference from the video.
Craven, low life sacks of ****
Come into my home or onto my property and cause harm, tin badge or no and I will do everything necessary to eliminate the threat you pose.
That cheap piece of tin isn’t going to do you a damned bit of good when you’re in the wrong and I’m in the right and I know I’m in the right.
Usually the nervous, aggressive dogs will stop or turn a short distance away, but farther away than this dog was when shot.
The dog was either really friendly and wanted to jump up on him and lick him, or really aggressive and wanted to bite him.
I can't tell from the video. The officer probably should have been able to tell the difference unless he's really, really not a pet person. I had a neighbor with a big chocolate lab that would run up and nearly knock me off my feet out of over excited friendliness. He would do the same to complete strangers, and I do remember seeing people turning and running for their cars when he came running. He was a bit intimidating even though I knew he was friendly. I can see how he could scare a stranger to death, and he wouldn't turn away or stop short. You just had to realize that his tail was wagging and his teeth weren't bared at you as he charged.
Of course that same neighbor's previous dogs had to be put down. One bit a neighbor kid that was riding by on a three wheeler, and the kid, and the other actually bit the owner's son. Those were a couple of mean Doberman Pincers. The friendly lab was a huge improvement even if he did get muddy paw prints on me a lot.
Feel free to walk me though what happens as you see it. It’s possible that you might interpret things differently, and an explanation of your interpretation might change my mind.
That's definitely possible.
You can't really tell from the video.
The dog doesn't seem to turn or slow. Most somewhat aggressive dogs will turn or stop a short distance away and bark.
This dog doesn't appear to slow or turn away. He might have been about to turn away right about when he was shot, but he was already really close at that point.
It seems to me the dog was either really, really friendly or really, really aggressive.
I can't tell one way or the other from the video.
Why do you think it was really friendly rather than really aggressive?
The shooter was either a coward or sadistic.
The sad trend in law enforcement has been seeing many officers responding with lethal force to a perceived threat as opposed to an actual violent event in progress (ie shooting people for reaching into their jackets)
imo
I own a red-haired Golden - colour my perception, I guess.
She would run up to a stranger like that, and -*ahem*- service them.
On the other hand, my Akita (sadly deceased), would have NEVER run up to someone like that. He would have posted, hackles raised, and sounded a warning.
Now, many years ago, I owned a blue-eyed Alaskan - she would not have offered any warning at all. If she decided something needed to die, it did.
But she also never charged anything in the driveway.
My point is, a charging dog inten on mayhem is not competent to the job - most charging dogs are intent on a but-sniffing lick-fest.
I work as a mail carrier for USPS, and I never leave my vehicle without my pepper spray at the ready. Sometimes I have literally two seconds to fend off an attack from a vicious dog. These attacks happens frequently, sometimes daily. The only defense I have is to get my mail bag between me and the dog and grab my spray.
The owners think its a big joke! I am the most understanding person in the world when it comes to people’s pets. But what i can’t stand is an owner’s stupidity in defending their pet, when the attack caused great stress and endangerment to me. It’s not funny, its against the law, and if the animal bites, its a huge fine, removal of the animal for rabies testing and eventually put out of its misery.
So, there is always two sides to the story.
I can’t and never will see the point from a JBT perspective. Of course I wonder if I could see the point of the sniper that killed Randy Weaver’s Wife whilst holding her baby. She could have been a threat!!!
Absolutely not. It isn’t tough, it’s poor training and poor decision making on the part of the cop. I consider it reckless discharge of a weapon. I also personally would consider it illegal intent to commit harm to my family...
Mike
No, I can’t. Screw that.
Enjoy your chains.
That dog did not display an aggressive posture. That pathetic excuse for a cop was way out of line. He’s lucky the home owner didn’t shoot him.
Mike
Most definitely. Dogs that would just charge and attack someone are rare, especially when that person doesn't turn and run, which is why the guy slowly backing up makes sense.
Of course in that normal situation where the dog is being really friendly most all people, including most all police officers will recognize that fact.
So this is either the really, really rare dog that attacks, or the really, really rare police officer that shoots the dog that is just being friendly. The consequences of having to deal with the dog owner and fill out lots of paperwork for discharging his weapon is enough to discourage even the bad cops that are indifferent to killing someone's pet.
Without better video or knowing more about the character of the officer, I don't see how there's enough information to really tell one way or the other.
What makes you say that? How can you tell he's not being aggressive from that choppy video? I'm honestly wondering what you are seeing in that video that I'm not.
It could be that it's just a really friendly dog that's gonna jump up on him and lick him because you can't really tell if he's really friendly or really aggressive.
The officer reacts to him as if the dog is being aggressive.
The dog doesn't appear to be stopping or turning when it gets close, which could mean either really friendly, or really aggressive.
It definitely wasn't a shy dog that runs up and then barks from a short distance off.
I would also say that there are far, far more overly friendly dogs than dogs that will charge and actually attack someone. Especially someone that doesn't turn and run. Of course people don't usually react as this officer did with really friendly dogs, and it's likely as a police officer he's dealt with a lot of really friendly dogs running up to him, and pretty doubtful that he's made a habit of just shooting friendly dogs running up to him.
Forgetting for a moment whether the dog was being aggressive or friendly - (and I would say from ten reruns of the video, plus many years of canine experience, that I would come down on the side of friendly) - But forgetting that for just a moment.......
Hasn’t anyone in Oklahoma ever heard of Mace or Pepperspray?
Works just fine for Mrs. shibumi, who’s been a USPS Letter Carrier for over 20 years.
Simple... the gait of the dog. The run is a playful bouncy run, not an aggressive approach. If that dog was being aggressive, it would have lowered it’s profile and set for a lunge... it didn’t, not even close. That dog was coming over to say hi and died for it for no reason.
Mike
The gait was also what I based my conclusion on.
That, and the fact that a REALLY aggressive dog would not have given the officer that much reaction time. (My little GSD can reach any point in the yard in under 2 seconds.)
What would a mailman have done? The cop can cross that career potential off his list.
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