'2,000-year-old Jesus box' may not be a fake, as Jerusalem forgery trial nears collapses

Daily Mail ^ | 30 Oct 2008 | Daily Mail

[A.A. Cunningham]

There’s no Biblical proof that the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Joseph had a conjugal relationship.

[Varda]

“That’s stretching things”
Perhaps but as you point out the ossuarys ID relatives
therefore they don’t have things like sect identification (Nazarene) on them them.

I don’t find it hard to believe a man who witnessed this would call himself “Brother of Jesus”.

“stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.” Matthew 49

[Varda]

should be>

“That’s stretching things”
Perhaps but as you point out the ossuarys ID relatives therefore they don’t have things like sect identification (Nazarene) on them.

I don’t find it hard to believe a man who witnessed this would call himself “Brother of Jesus”.

“And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.” Matthew 49

[Buggman]

Jacob (James) understood Jewish rhetoric and hyperbole better than most who read the Scriptures today. Anyway, where are all of the other ossuaries claiming to be the “brothers” of Yeshua?

[Hegewisch Dupa]

I’ve just scoured my bible, and can find no proof that Joseph wiped after doing his business. Guess we can’t assume anything

[rface]

This takes nothing away from the FACT that Jesus Christ is real.

but it adds a little to the Controversy that Jesus had a Brother named James.

[Varda]

When did the practice of identifying the deceased as Christian begin? At some early point it became standard practice. This ossuary might be an early example of an unusual practice for the time. Jewish ossuary burial was a short lived phenomenon. There really aren’t that many of them.

[Lazamataz]

I wonder what BC and AD means.

Bill Clinton.

Arthur (Conan) Doyle.

[Buggman]

Again, you’re really stretching to avoid the obvious.

[Dustbunny]

You could hardly expect a fair trial in Israel as to whether the box inscription is real or not. They would have to acknowledge that Jesus was real, something no Jew is about to do unless they are Christian Jews.

[Varda]

Don’t think so. Someone who can call himself a “brother of Jesus” at this point in history would be one of two sets; group 1-biologically affiliated or group 2- theologically affiliated. Group 1 has a small set size. Group 2 has a much larger set size. Then you have the small number of extant ossuaries. I think it’s more probable that the group with more members would be more likely to have a surviving ossuary than the group with fewer members.

BTW even if this is a bio-brother/cousin that says nothing about Mary. This ossuary can’t answer that question.

[Just mythoughts]

Trust me, it’s based on a lie and will NOT prove to be genuine. This takes nothing away from the FACT that Jesus Christ is real.

Based upon what evidence can you call out to trust you? There is a box, a literal object, what is your evidence it is not what it appears to be?

[Just mythoughts]

.....The Bible has always said that Yeshua (Jesus) had brothers: Ya'akov, Yhudah, Shim'on, etc. If this ossuary is real, then its only confirming what the Scriptures have told us for 2000 years in that regard.......

Totally agree this is what the Bible says... now in whose vested interest is it then this object be proved a fake?

[Buggman]

That goes back to my question from earlier: Where are the other ossuaries with the title, “brother of Yeshua” written on them? You’re making a claim that this was a common practice in the 1st-2nd Century Church. Prove it.

[Varda]

A common 1st century practice doesn't necessarily leave a large number of artifacts.

[Buggman]

Mostly secularists. Religious Jews that I know, especially in Israel, have no problem acknowledging that Yeshua was a famous rabbi in His time--in fact, there's actually a movement among Orthodox scholars to "recapture" Yeshua as one of their own--they just don't believe He was the Messiah or the Incarnation of Deity. So the idea that Jacob might have his relationship to Yeshua noted on his ossuary doesn't bother them.

Catholics tend to accept the find, but to try to explain away the inscription, as we've seen here.

Secularists, both Jew and Gentile, who have accepted the "Christ-myth" baloney are the ones the most threatened by this find.

Shalom.

[Buggman]

So you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim then?

[Varda]

Actually it’s you making a claim that there should be other ossuaries with the same inscription. The fact that a thousand or so ossuaries have survived this long is great but it in no way tells us how many there were to start.

I’m saying that there are various ways this can be interpreted but any interpretation has to be based on the culture and theology of the time (hopefully that will be hashed out in the universities). Plain sense readings of ancient scripts from extinct cultures is only one approach to interpretation. From my POV not a very good one.

[Just mythoughts]

Mostly secularists. Religious Jews that I know, especially in Israel, have no problem acknowledging that Yeshua was a famous rabbi in His time--in fact, there's actually a movement among Orthodox scholars to "recapture" Yeshua as one of their own--they just don't believe He was the Messiah or the Incarnation of Deity. So the idea that Jacob might have his relationship to Yeshua noted on his ossuary doesn't bother them. Catholics tend to accept the find, but to try to explain away the inscription, as we've seen here. Secularists, both Jew and Gentile, who have accepted the "Christ-myth" baloney are the ones the most threatened by this find. Shalom.

You maybe correct regarding who feels most threatened. Original language of Scripture says what it says and ultimately we all will be judged individually upon what we individually believe, and there is no Scripture that says any one of us will get to blame anyone but ourselves for what we believe. Now I am aware that God did say he blinded some in this flesh age, for their own protection. Paul did say the preacher/priest class would be first in line for their works.

[Buggman]

No, I'm making the claim that, if genuine, the inscription on the ossuary means what it says: It contains the bones of Ya'akov ben Yoseph--Jacob (James) the son of Joseph--who was the brother of Yeshua. The simplest meaning is that just as this Jacob was the blood relative of Joseph, he was also the blood relative of Yeshua.

You're the one who, in order to preserve a much later tradition that is already disproven by the Biblical text, is trying to twist "brother" into "disciple."

The person with the plain-text interpretation is not the one who has to disprove anything. It is up to you, with your somewhat more esoteric interpretation of the inscription, to prove that this is a plausible and probable interpretation by providing other like inscriptions.

If you can't, admit it. If the find proves genuine and you still find it necessary for your faith to preserve an eternally-virgin Mary for the sake of your tradition, you can always appeal to the Eastern Orthodox tradition that Jacob, Jude, etc. were Joseph's children by a previous marriage.

Shalom.