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Gun owners fret Obama White House - Voting bloc has 'deep-seated' concerns
The Washington Times ^ | October 30, 2008 | Jennifer Harper

Posted on 10/30/2008 4:21:32 PM PDT by neverdem

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama speaks at a rally in Lancaster, Pa., on Sept. 4. He strongly denied that he had any intention of taking away anyone's shotguns, rifles or handguns. (Associated Press)

The nation's gun owners have the presidential election in their sights.

Some are up at arms about the prospect of future gun legislation should Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama win the White House. Others are beefing up their personal arsenals, skittish that firearms could become scarce or too expensive in the near future.

"If the economy is down, and gun sales are up, it shows you just how deep-seated the concern is out there about the situation," said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association.

"Most gun owners at least until recently have been misled by Senator Obama. Though he claims to be an advocate for the Second Amendment, his voting record in the Illinois Senate says otherwise. He voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens," Mr. Pearson continued.

"His campaign has done a good job burying his take on firearms," he added.

Hal Goldstein, owner of the Armory gun shop in Annapolis, said, "People should be scared."

"Sales are definitely up," he said. "I've got people with Obama stickers on their cars coming in to buy. We're looking at possible a super- Democratic majority [in Congress], and a president who's going to do what's best for the collective. I don't want to sound paranoid, but the prices could go way out of sight."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; antichrist; banglist; democrats; electionpresident; elections; gunvote; nobama; nobama08; obama; resistance; shallnotbeinfringed; violence
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1 posted on 10/30/2008 4:21:32 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

2 posted on 10/30/2008 4:29:32 PM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of .HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: neverdem

The Messiah and his Marxist allies will do whatever is required in order to silence dissent and enforce compliance to their collectivist vision of utopia. The First and Second Amendments are barriers to their hegemony and will soon be eliminated by a Democrat super-majority and a leftist-packed Supreme Court.


3 posted on 10/30/2008 4:29:41 PM PDT by 230FMJ (...from my cold, dead, fingers.)
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To: neverdem

His voting record speaks for itself. Voting for life, guns, Constitution and No Hussein dude.


4 posted on 10/30/2008 4:32:17 PM PDT by mcshot (Bitterly Loving God, Family, and Guns more then ever. The Constitution Dammit.)
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To: doug from upland

FOX just did a report that said there was no difference between Obama and McCain on gun rights. Unbelievable!


5 posted on 10/30/2008 4:34:32 PM PDT by Ikemeister
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To: neverdem

Its not just The Øne, but The Øne in conjunction with majorities led by pelousi and reed (sic), and in a year or two, a left supreme court.


6 posted on 10/30/2008 4:36:12 PM PDT by C210N (The television has mounted the most serious assault on Republicanism since Das Kapital.)
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To: Ikemeister

Fox got their feelie-weelies hurt when he said he’d be up by more if it weren’t for them.


7 posted on 10/30/2008 4:37:00 PM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: neverdem

Anyone who thinks a Democrat sweep won’t end with major gun control laws needs to pull their head out of their...

These would likely be the union guys who think 0bama and the Democrats will increase their paycheck and security. In the short run this will be true — in the long run, as history shows, the same paycheck will be targeted by the same Democrats.

It’s the middle class who suffer under socialism. Rich people will buy, or think, their way out of it like they always have. Unless it ends up like in Russia where they simply walked rich people from the homes into the street and shot them in their heads — no more rich people to hate. The effect was no more food to eat either.

The working man has to choose between freedom and “free” stuff. A union paycheck should never trump a man’s freedom.


8 posted on 10/30/2008 4:37:46 PM PDT by Boucheau (No nation is history has survived a tax burden that reaches a third of its national income. --Reagan)
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To: neverdem

Simple. Do not give em your guns. Just whats in em.


9 posted on 10/30/2008 4:38:06 PM PDT by screaminsunshine
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To: neverdem
If people are nervous, they need to remember the Supreme Court decision this summer, which says the government cannot confiscate or ban guns," he said.

I may have been born at night but not last night.

The govt. doesn't have to ban any firearms, all they have to do is tax them and the ammunition beyond the means of any average citizen's ability to purchase them............

That being said, a super majority, a stacked Supreme Court and the Constitution is up for radical change........good bye 2nd Amendment.

10 posted on 10/30/2008 4:40:07 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Spreading manure around helps growth. Spreading wealth around creates manure)
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To: neverdem

Today’s lesson comes from The Book of Invesco,

The Sermon on the Mile High Mount...

ahem...

39”Therefore do not be like them. For The Obamessiah knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 40In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Player, Barack the Messiah,
Washington be thy game.
Thy welfare come,
Grabbeth all thy guns
So we will think that we’re all in heaven.
Taxeth away our daily bread,
And giveth to those identity groups who trespass against work.
Make us not a prosperous nation,
For all wealth is evil,
And thine is the shakedown with all power and fury.
Obamunist forever. Amen.

41”Enter by the narrow gate of Obamunism; for wide is the gate and broad is the way of Capitalism that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 42Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to Obamunism, and there are few who find it. 43For if you take from each according to his ability, The Obamessiah shall give to each according to his needs.

Here endeth the lesson...

http://thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=2269


11 posted on 10/30/2008 4:43:06 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts.....)
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To: Ikemeister

FOX has been very disappointing lately.


12 posted on 10/30/2008 4:49:08 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Obama is not qualified for the FBI, but he is qualified for the Presidency????)
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To: Hot Tabasco

And criminals only need to sell more drugs or break into one more home to get money to buy more ammo.

All of the laws punish law abiding citizens. Every one of them.


13 posted on 10/30/2008 4:50:42 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Obama is not qualified for the FBI, but he is qualified for the Presidency????)
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To: screaminsunshine

Bullseye.

If the Obamabots or any of his punk capos every show up at my door to confiscate my guns because they passed a law and made a criminal of me they’re going to find out what real gun control is.


14 posted on 10/30/2008 4:51:54 PM PDT by navyguy (The National Reset Button is pushed with the trigger finger.)
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To: Ikemeister

FOX News lied through its teeth. Not one mention of their voting records. Plus that phony baloney “Constitutional Law Professor. He just kept repeating “0bama says he supports gun rights.” Nice of the Big Zero to say that in spite of his heavy-handed anti-gun voting record. Nothing fair and balanced in that report.


15 posted on 10/30/2008 4:56:19 PM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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To: navyguy

Thats what they did in Austrailia. I was in barbados last year. They have a gun club where you can keep your gun. Citizens can’t have guns....I got robbed at gunpoint. Coming soon to your town. Hey the people are going socialist. What can ya do? They can vote. Out of our pocket in to theirs. I do not think there are enough capitalists left to win elections.


16 posted on 10/30/2008 5:03:51 PM PDT by screaminsunshine
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To: neverdem

We’re about to be attacked by a liberal brigade of 10,000 college professors, bed-wetting college students and cocaine-addled hip-hop rappers swinging their purses to take our guns away.

OH, NO!!!

We’re doomed....


17 posted on 10/30/2008 5:09:54 PM PDT by sergeantdave (We are entering the Age of the Idiot)
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To: screaminsunshine

I love Australia... great place. ut I’ll never live there for that very reason.

And if people here want Socialism thats fine. They can drive to Canada and stay there.


18 posted on 10/30/2008 5:10:39 PM PDT by navyguy (The National Reset Button is pushed with the trigger finger.)
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To: doug from upland

I just bought a new AR-15 just in case Obama wins and they try to take our guns. It will be safely stored (not in my house).


19 posted on 10/30/2008 5:10:43 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon (Stop the Marxists from getting control of the government !!!!)
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To: navyguy

We better shut off all the exits and southbound lanes of the interstate and FREE GAS.


20 posted on 10/30/2008 5:14:59 PM PDT by screaminsunshine
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To: neverdem

I think if they push that agenda far enough they will get a civil war...and then we can sort this thing out once and for all.


21 posted on 10/30/2008 5:16:10 PM PDT by culpeper ( Stop Obama bin Biden)
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To: neverdem

Buy early and buy often! Every competent American who cares about the Second Amendment should have at least one semi auto rifle. Just my opinion of course.


22 posted on 10/30/2008 5:17:06 PM PDT by kamikaze2000
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To: Red in Blue PA

>All of the laws punish law abiding citizens. Every one of them.

Isn’t it disgusting?


23 posted on 10/30/2008 5:17:06 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: kamikaze2000

>Buy early and buy often! Every competent American who cares about the Second Amendment should have at least one semi auto rifle. Just my opinion of course.

I’d like to have a mk19.... of course, what guy WOULDN’T want a full-auto grenade launcher? (It is a HEAVY bugger though.)


24 posted on 10/30/2008 5:21:13 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Years ago, I was actually for many of those laws.....finally I wised up!


25 posted on 10/30/2008 5:47:18 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Obama is not qualified for the FBI, but he is qualified for the Presidency????)
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To: neverdem; ColdSteelTalon

Is there any way of finding out what happened to the link below? It was titled “The Art of the Cache”. I had it bookmarked and now it says “no such file”....???

Really great reading on how to stash firearms and ammo that I think people will need to know.

www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a9f53301414.htm


26 posted on 10/30/2008 6:05:57 PM PDT by panaxanax (Writing in John Bolton/Sarah Palin in 2008!)
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To: ColdSteelTalon

Well done! Now buy ammo before the price skyrockets.


27 posted on 10/30/2008 7:08:04 PM PDT by navyguy (The National Reset Button is pushed with the trigger finger.)
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To: panaxanax; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; ...
Is there any way of finding out what happened to the link below? It was titled “The Art of the Cache”. I had it bookmarked and now it says “no such file”....???

Good question. I remember reading it. Sometimes I use an external search engine to find articles here. Sometimes, it works. Your question will get a lot of eyeballs.

Where the candidates stand: Gun control Gannett News Service

Dave Kopel: Gunning for Victory - Second Amendment voter guide.

Democrats Should Fear the 'Brady Effect'

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

28 posted on 10/30/2008 7:15:20 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem

The Art of the Cache

Standby. i can get it.


29 posted on 10/30/2008 7:23:21 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: neverdem

Links on my home page may be helpful.


30 posted on 10/30/2008 7:36:42 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Jet Jaguar; Jim Robinson; Travis McGee; Squantos; neverdem

Wow, it’s been scrubbed.

If I could stay up a few more hours, I could probably dig it up.

But it is no longer at the way back machine or google.

Perhaps someone archived it.


31 posted on 10/30/2008 7:36:42 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: navyguy

Oh I already have lots of that. :)


32 posted on 10/30/2008 8:24:24 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon (Stop the Marxists from getting control of the government !!!!)
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To: Jet Jaguar

I peeked around quick search .....found some oldies but goodie reads on such. I have that art of cache SOMEWHERE in my pile of data .......just will take me a while to locate !

Mel Tappan read link below.....

http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/Tappan%20on%20Survival.pdf


33 posted on 10/30/2008 8:40:27 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Jet Jaguar

http://sparc.areyouprepared.org/archive/Kits,%20Caches%20&%20Bags/cache15.zip

try this.. albeit not a title that was asked for it’s Ok.....


34 posted on 10/30/2008 8:57:38 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: neverdem

btrl


35 posted on 10/30/2008 9:10:03 PM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


36 posted on 10/30/2008 10:18:21 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: panaxanax; Coleus
It's there pan. Some old threads are tough to pull up. I hit the F5 key about 10 times and it finally came up. A Charter Freeper taught me this trick. Not a jammed round but a jammed thread. I saved it just in case, we all should.

(+) THE ART OF THE CACHE (+)
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a9f53301414.htm

37 posted on 10/30/2008 10:18:23 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: Squantos; Jet Jaguar
TC 31-29/A
38 posted on 10/30/2008 10:21:05 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: panaxanax; neverdem

Ping.


39 posted on 10/30/2008 10:26:17 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

That’ll do it !

thanks !........;o)


40 posted on 10/30/2008 10:27:04 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Jet Jaguar; Jim Robinson; Travis McGee; Squantos; neverdem; navyguy; Lexinom
See my 37 its still there, under camo, so to speak.
41 posted on 10/30/2008 10:32:58 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: DuncanWaring

Thank you Duncan. I’ll save this thread.


42 posted on 10/30/2008 10:37:55 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: cpforlife.org

I couldn’t get it to open trying F5 or control F5. Thanks anyway.


43 posted on 10/30/2008 10:40:20 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem; All

(+) THE ART OF THE CACHE (+)

Miscellaneous Miscellaneous Keywords: CACHE
Source: www.sit-rep.com
Published: March 1, 2001 Author: Travis McGee
Posted on 03/02/2001 00:00:48 PST by Travis McGee

The Art of the Cache
Sad to say, the march of anti-constitutional laws continues to quicken the pace. Today tens of thousands of law abiding citizens face becoming “armchair felons” because they are not gullible enough to comply with mandatory registration and licensing of long owned firearms. Collectors have been raided on bogus pretexts, then arrested for “paper violations”, and had their assets seized. It’s a shame, but in many jurisdictions your AR-15 or SKS is an “outlaw rifle”, and you are at risk every day that you keep it in your house. It is doubly a shame because these are exactly the types of arms the founding fathers were speaking of when they wrote the 2nd Amendment...
So if you will not register or turn in your weapons, and are reluctant to keep some of them in your house, what is to be done with them, to preserve them for use at some future date? Many folks just say “bury them” but this is simplistic and may be self defeating, for a buried gun may be rusted, forgotten, or paved over in time. The “art of the cache” is then the subject of this lesson.

First we must define a few terms, for there are several classes of caches. A fighting cache or ready cache is one where a rifle or other weapon is kept, sighted in and with the correct ammunition and cleaning gear, available on short notice. A long term cache should be able to lay undetected for years if need be. An Escape and Evasion cache will contain a complete getaway kit in addition to a firearm, against the day that the owner finds himself pursued by enemies.

An E&E cache will contain the items listed in Squantos’ E&E kits, as well as hair dye, “instant tan” lotion, scissors, a razor, a nylon windbreaker and a hat for a quick appearance change. Cash, gold, a space blanket, a poncho for shelter and a pistol would also be included. All of these items can be kept in a .50 caliber metal ammo box available at any army surplus store.

What arms to cache? If you are considering caching any weapons, it makes sense to cache both your black “outlaw” firearms and your cheap surplus military rifles, the Enfields and SKS’s and so on. The former may land you in legal trouble, the latter are inexpensive and may best prove their worth by waiting hidden and silent for the moment of need. Pistols also should be considered, particularly inexpensive surplus police revolvers. There is no other type of firearm which may be handed to a complete novice with confidence that the new shooter will be able to use it effectively on the first try, and you may someday be in the position of arming a complete novice. Millions of non-shooters may become ardent RKBA advocates in the years to come and you should consider arms for them as well as for yourself.

Where should you locate your cache?I will consider three broad areas: rural caches, urban caches, and underwater caches.

The Rural Cache: In the countryside, cache options abound far beyond the cliched hole in the ground, although that option is not to be left out! In the boonies, look for old private junkyards, every big farm has at least one on the back 40! Rusty forgotten tractors, cars, refrigerators and farm equipment are made to order, full of hidden nooks and crannies where a rifle or three may be inserted, yet remain readily available. Of course, hiding firearms in and around old iron negates the chance of technical detection. Abandoned farmhouses, barns, ruins, and foundations provide countless hiding places, as do small caves, worked out mines, and graveyards. And of course you can just bury your package, preferably near or around some clutter of old scrap metal to provide magnetic camouflage.

The Urban Cache: In cities and towns you must be a bit more creative to find a good cache location which will remain undisturbed for years. Abandoned factories and warehouses, forgotten steam tunnels, scrap yards and neglected corners of basements and attics of some buildings may be used. You need to find a quiet dark out of the way corner were you can remove some tile or blocks or panels to create a mini vault, then hide by replacing the cover. Old large diameter pipes or pump casings may be used as is. Sometimes it is possible to create a cache by adding a bogus utility box or fake run of pipe which has no other purpose than to look old and nasty, and hide a gun or two.

The Underwater Cache: Arms may be sealed into a PVC pipe, then sunk for a great cache. Ammo packed inside around the arms will provide enough weight to sink the tube. Tie a strong nylon or monofilament line around the middle of the pipe, and lower the cache under an old rotten abandoned dock or wharf. So much junk accumulates under old docks that one more slime and barnacle encrusted pipe section will attract no attention at all. Tie the top end of the line to a piling down under the waterline, the entire line will soon be so nasty that no one will ever touch it, except you!

Packaging the Cache: No matter where your cache will be located, you should go to great pains to make sure that it remains sealed and moisture proof. As mentioned, large diameter PVC pipe fits the bill perfectly. If you want access without cutting open the pipe, you can buy an end cap with a threaded center. For really long term storage, release the springs from your magazines and operating rods where possible. A chunk of dry ice dropped into a watertight package and allowed to “steam off” before sealing will purge out the rust producing oxygen. Store bought silica desiccant bags may also be used. Wherever ammo is stored, beware of using penetrating oils, as in time they may deaden the primers.

Plastic five gallon buckets with sealed lids may also be used, as well as heavy duty “white water rafting” bags, marine “flare kit” boxes and containers, surplus military ammo and ordnance boxes and many other types of containers. Where possible, for long term storage seal the lids with a bead of silicone glue.

Where tight cache space is a consideration, you may have to merely wrap your weapons in plastic. In this case use the biggest thickest heavy duty lawn and garden bags you can find. After placing the arms inside, suck out all the air you can, twist the end, put a few strong wires ties around the neck, fold it over, and put more wire around it again. Then do this again inside another bag. Long rifles which will not fit in a bag will have to be wrapped in industrial plastic sheeting, taped up, and kept in a fairly dry location. This type of packaging may be considered where a weapon may be in a “fighting cache”, ready for use on short notice.

Locating Your Cache: Nothing is worse than stumbling around looking for a cache so well hidden that you cannot find it, so give a lot of thought to the landmarks you will locate it by, and write them down! Don’t put the entire location on one piece of paper (for security), just the final directions which will not make sense if the paper is compromised. Remember, your cache area may look very different in different seasons, so choose landmarks which will stand out in summer foliage or winter snow. It is a good idea to take compass bearings from several permanent landmarks, as well as pacing the distances where possible. Or you may locate the cache by aligning it with an old wall, or between distinctive boulders, just make sure the features are permanent: bushes and gullies may disappear. Be alert to construction around your cache, and if the survey stakes go up, move it out ASAP. You may use GPS coordinates, but consider that GPS may be degraded or turned off at any time, and mark your location the “old fashioned way” first.

Cache Security: When you look for a cache location, consider that you will need a “cover for action” to explain your presence in the area. If you jog cross country, go on hikes, bike or four wheel drive you have it made. The cache location must have terrain or vegetation cover to conceal your loading and unloading it: forget the “cover of darkness”, in this era of NVGs that is a thing of the past.

Before returning to a cache do some counter-surveillance: loop around the area looking for the “watchers” who may be staking it out, or a new “utility box” which may contain a remotely operated camera. When finally approaching the cache, don’t go directly to it, first “fish hook” your trail, double back and observe your own path in to check for followers. Finally, walk right past your cache and make a “false unload”. If you are taken down at this point, they may not find the true cache, and your “cover for action” (eg.: taking a leak on a routine hike) may pass muster. Only when you are truly sure of your safety should you go to the cache and unload it.

In addition, you should leave “tell-tales”, small innoucuous secret marks which will tell you if anyone has disturbed and replaced your cache. It is a favorite trick of security forces to put tracking devices into cached weapons in order to follow the guerrilla back to his base and catch the entire band. A tell-tale may be a bit of thread or a pebble etc. placed in such a way that if the cache is disturbed it will break or fall out without the security forces noticing it. In Summary: I hope this has been an informative and thought provoking article. Even if you do not think it is necessary to cache any weapons (or an E&E kit!) at this time, you will at least be able to take walks in the woods to scout out some likely sites for future use. Look for sites at various distances from your home from a short walk to a day’s drive: don’t keep all your eggs in one basket. It is a good idea to “load” a cache with some old tools just for practice. See if they rust, see if the local eleven year old boys find them, see if you can get in and out of the area without being seen. Practice makes perfect, so try some “dry runs” today so that you will be a seasoned pro if and when it becomes necessary to cache “the war iron” for real and for keeps. And don’t forget to BLOAT! Buy Lots Of Ammo Today!


44 posted on 10/30/2008 10:48:08 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: neverdem
I’ll save this thread.

You might want to save a local copy, in case of mysterious future "connectivity" problems.

45 posted on 10/30/2008 10:50:07 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: cpforlife.org

That was the trick. I only tried it 3 or 4 times the first time and thought she was gone for good. Seven hits got it. Thanks!


46 posted on 10/30/2008 11:17:24 PM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do.)
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To: cpforlife.org; panaxanax; DuncanWaring; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; ...

cpforlife.org, thanks for the ‘printing’ job.

panaxanax, see comment# 44.

Don’t miss DuncanWaring’s link in comment# 38 and advice in comment# 45.

Rarely, do I call again to the same thread. There’s a good reason when I do.


47 posted on 10/31/2008 12:54:41 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem

He needs to take away our guns so we can’t get in the way of his new Civilian National Security Force that is just a large, powerful and well funded as our military forces.


48 posted on 10/31/2008 1:39:58 AM PDT by Jeff Gordon ("An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last." Churchill)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
49 posted on 10/31/2008 5:51:20 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: neverdem; All

Thanks for the important ping. Great thread. BUMP for like-minded lurkers & independents.

Independence/freedom


50 posted on 10/31/2008 6:33:59 AM PDT by PGalt
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