Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

MIT scientists baffled by global warming theory, contradicts scientific data
TGDaily ^ | Thursday, October 30, 2008 09:55 | By Rick C. Hodgin

Posted on 10/31/2008 3:37:15 AM PDT by xcamel

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-125 last
To: cogitator

That’s a great point. Thanks.

I appreciate the link too.


101 posted on 10/31/2008 12:58:12 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Our nation is uncomfortably close to having B.O. We need to use a Republican roll on by 11/04.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: xcamel
Same bunch who refused out of hand to admit that the vast majority of north polar ice melt has been being caused by a substantial increase in polar undersea volcanic activity

What's up with volcanoes under Arctic sea ice?

Excellent follow-up information will be found in reply 16.

102 posted on 10/31/2008 12:59:17 PM PDT by cogitator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: cogitator

Oh, and sorry, you don’t get to use “definitive source” and “just the messenger” is the same thought bubble.

You are the one who linked to a discovery networks site that is making “global warming” a business model.

No soup for you.


103 posted on 10/31/2008 1:01:51 PM PDT by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: cogitator

“Peter A. Stott is a climate scientist and Manager of Understanding and Attributing Climate Change at the UK Met Office Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Exeter, U.K.[1]

He was a lead author of the IPCC WG I report, chapter 9, for the AR4 released in 2007.”

The whole mess stinks to me - between those who have committed themselves to their hand and have gone “all-in” and those waiting for the next flop, the size of the winning pot is the most important thing.


104 posted on 10/31/2008 1:04:26 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Miltie
Trying to mix science and Global Warming is like trying to mix science and Scientology. All of them have a glancing encounter with “science”, but in name only.

I agree. It is how I see the TOE as well. That is, there is some real science there, but it is a tiny center to a mouth sized jawbreaker of "religios ferver". And just as hard to break through

105 posted on 10/31/2008 1:09:48 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: cogitator

Haven’t found the paper or the abstract.

How do they do this usingfive data points?


106 posted on 10/31/2008 1:13:13 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer

FWIW - they’re all the same people, and their progeny, that were so badly humiliated during and after the last great “coming ice age” panic.

They never go away, they just waste everyones time (and boatloads of money) coming up with the “next great panic”


107 posted on 10/31/2008 1:15:30 PM PDT by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

I don’t see the term “definitive source” in post 96. Sorry, I guess I should have linked to the article in the Khaleej Times so as not to raise your hackles.


108 posted on 10/31/2008 1:50:31 PM PDT by cogitator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
From Prof. Gillett's Web site (amazing what the right keywords can do in Google, I used - Stott Gillett Antarctica and "Nature Geoscience"):

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~nathan/pdf/ngeo338.pdf

Have fun: gotta go trick-or-treating. I'm going dressed as a CO2 molecule and I'm going to hit a lot of the houses of liberals I know: that should scare them!

109 posted on 10/31/2008 1:57:54 PM PDT by cogitator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: 75thOVI; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BBell; BenLurkin; ...
Thanks xcamel.
 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·
 

110 posted on 10/31/2008 3:15:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

It’s not Global Warming,
it’s Ocean Warming

Ocean Floor Geysers Warming The Seas
(And we wonder why the oceans are warming)
22 Sep 08 - “It’s like finding Old Faithful in Illinois. When we went out to
try to get a feel for how much heat was coming from the ocean floor and
how much sea water might be moving through it, we found that there was
much more heat than we expected at the outcrops.”
See Ocean Floor Geysers Warming The Seas
.
.
World’s deepest chain of undersea volcanoes to be explored
1 Sep 08 — Scientists at the National Oceanography Centre are set to
explore the world’s deepest undersea volcanoes five kilometers beneath
the Caribbean.
See Deepest chain of undersea volcanoes to be explored
.
.
‘Black smokers’ found in Arctic Ocean
4 Aug 08 - Jets of searingly hot water spewing up from the sea floor
have been discovered in a far-northern zone of the Arctic Ocean,
Swiss-based scientists announced Monday.
See ‘Black smokers’ found in Arctic Ocean.
.
.
Boiling Hot Water Found in Frigid Arctic Sea
24 Jul 08 – “Many miles inside the Arctic Circle, scientists have found
vents of scalding liquid rising out of the seafloor at temperatures that are
more than twice the boiling point of water.
See Boiling Hot Water Found in Frigid Arctic Sea
.
.
Undersea volcanic activity blamed for mass extinction 93 million years ago
16 Jul 08 - Researchers from the University of Alberta, Canada, find evidence of
underwater volcanism in rocks dating to a mass extinction 93 million years ago.
See Undersea volcanic activity blamed for mass extinction
.
.
Huge Underwater Volcanoes in the Arctic Ocean,
but scientists see no significant connection to melting ice?
27 Jun 08 – The eruptions discharge large amounts of carbon dioxide,
helium, trace metals and heat into the water over long distances, but
scientists see no significant connection to melting ice.
See No significant connection to melting ice
.
.
Giant Undersea Volcano Found Off Iceland
(And we wonder why the oceans are warming)
22 Apr 08 - It’s an active volcano that rises about 3,300 feet (1,000 meters)
above the surrounding sections, coming within 1,300 feet (400 meters) of the surface.
See Giant Undersea Volcano Found Off Iceland
.
.
Hawaiian volcano pumping more lava than usual into the ocean
5 Jul 08 - The Hawaiian Volcano Observatory said Saturday that
Hawaii’s Kilauea volcano is pumping more lava than usual into the ocean.
See Hawaiian volcano pumping more lava than usual into the ocean
.
.
Magma May Be Melting Greenland Ice
18 Dec 07 - I added another article to this posting
13 Dec 07 - Scientists have found at least one natural-magma hotspot under
the Greenland Ice Sheet where heat from Earth’s insides could seep through,
See Magma May Be Melting Greenland Ice
.
.
Arctic seabed afire with lava-spewing volcanoes
25 Jun 08 - Red-hot magma has been rising from deep inside the earth
and blown the tops off dozens of submarine volcanoes, four kilometers
below the ice. And we wonder what is melting the ice.
See Arctic seabed afire with lava-spewing volcanoes
.

http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm


111 posted on 10/31/2008 4:13:23 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

ScienceDaily (Jan. 22, 2008) — The first evidence of a volcanic eruption from beneath Antarctica’s most rapidly changing ice sheet has been reported. The volcano on the West Antarctic Ice Sheet erupted 2000 years ago (325BC) and remains active...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080120160720.htm


112 posted on 10/31/2008 4:36:28 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: cogitator
[Parts of the observed and simulated trend patterns are associated with an upward trend in the Southern Annular Mode (SAM) index, which has probably been forced by a combination of greenhouse gas increases and stratospheric ozone depletion. The pattern of temperature trends associated with the trend in the SAM consists of warming of the Antarctic Peninsula and cooling elsewhere1, but the effect on the observed trends seems weaker here than in previous studies, partly because we are considering annual mean changes rather than just summer and autumn, and partly because there was a maximum in the SAM in the early 1960s, making the SAM trend over the period considered here smaller than that over the 1969–2000 period21. After the SAM-congruent component of the observed temperature trends has been removed, residual trends show warming everywhere except for at the South Pole, making them more similar to simulated residual trends than the corresponding raw trends. The CMIP3 models simulate a SAM-congruent temperature trend pattern that is weaker than that observed, owing to a smaller mean SAM trend in the models (0:05 hPa yr􀀀1) than that observed (0:06 hPa yr􀀀1) and a weaker temperature response to the SAM: the r.m.s. amplitude of the mean simulated temperature regression on the SAM is 79% of that observed. To objectively test for the presence of an anthropogenic or natural response in observations of polar temperature, we use a detection and attribution analysis to compare simulated and observed changes. Such methods, first developed to detect anthropogenic influence on global temperature, have more recently been used to detect anthropogenic influence on temperature on continental scales.] Looks like to me that they began by throwing out all the data that wouldn't fit their model. And none of it would work if the ozone influence data weren't cranked in to supplement the data.
113 posted on 10/31/2008 4:39:02 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
One excerpt I found curious:

[Parts of the observed and simulated trend patterns are associated with an upward trend in the Southern Annular Mode (SAM) index, which has probably been forced by a combination of greenhouse gas increases and stratospheric ozone depletion.

The pattern of temperature trends associated with the trend in the SAM consists of warming of the Antarctic Peninsula and cooling elsewhere, but the effect on the observed trends seems weaker here than in previous studies, partly because we are considering annual mean changes rather than just summer and autumn, and partly because there was a maximum in the SAM in the early 1960s, making the SAM trend over the period considered here smaller than that over the 1969–2000 period.

After the SAM-congruent component of the observed temperature trends has been removed, residual trends show warming everywhere except for at the South Pole, making them more similar to simulated residual trends than the corresponding raw trends. The CMIP3 models simulate a SAM-congruent temperature trend pattern that is weaker than that observed, owing to a smaller mean SAM trend in the models (0:05 hPa yr􀀀1) than that observed (0:06 hPa yr􀀀1) and a weaker temperature response to the SAM: the r.m.s. amplitude of the mean simulated temperature regression on the SAM is 79% of that observed. To objectively test for the presence of an anthropogenic or natural response in observations of polar temperature, we use a detection and attribution analysis to compare simulated and observed changes.

Such methods, first developed to detect anthropogenic influence on global temperature, have more recently been used to detect anthropogenic influence on temperature on continental scales.]

Looks like to me that they began by throwing out all the data that wouldn't fit their model.

And none of it would work if the ozone influence data weren't cranked in to supplement the data.

114 posted on 10/31/2008 4:45:05 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: cogitator; Old Professer; DoughtyOne
riddle me this guys...

how do scientists estimate the temps from 200, 300, 500, 800 or 2000 yrs ago and determine any signifigant pattern in a planet that they claim is billions of yrs old ???

thats the part that always smacked me as obvious...

115 posted on 10/31/2008 4:55:13 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 ("JesusChrist 08"...Trust in the Lord......=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Gilbo_3

It’s a little like statistics. You can find statistics to prove just about anything you want to. And someone who disagrees with you, can also find statistics to prove you are wrong.

It’s in the reading of the tea leaves. Sometimes they get lucky and sometimes they are later found to be complete fools.


116 posted on 10/31/2008 5:05:50 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Our nation is uncomfortably close to having B.O. We need to use a Republican roll on by 11/04.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: Fred Nerks

Thanks!


117 posted on 10/31/2008 5:18:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: cogitator
I'm going dressed as a CO2 molecule and I'm going to hit a lot of the houses of liberals I know: that should scare them!
Depends on where you're wearing the two carbon atoms...
118 posted on 10/31/2008 5:24:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

Methane levels rose surprising in 2007.

From 0.000001775 parts of the atmosphere in 2006,

To 0.000001785 parts of the atmosphere in 2007.

This does, however, translate into an increase of global warming of 0.002 W/m2 or approximately 0.0015 degrees C increase in temps.

Enough to change absolutely nothing.


119 posted on 10/31/2008 5:49:29 PM PDT by JustDoItAlways
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gilbo_3

Sorry, but that part is proprietary.


120 posted on 10/31/2008 6:05:32 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
CO2!!!


121 posted on 10/31/2008 9:26:20 PM PDT by cogitator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; America_Right; ...
DOOMAGE!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

EU facing revolt over climate change target enforcement

Greenpeace Resurrects JFK for Global Warming Ad Campaign

CO2 Science, Vol. 11, No. 44

Global Warming on Free Republic

Latest from Global Warming News Site

Latest from Greenie Watch

Latest from Junk Science

Latest from Terra Daily

122 posted on 11/01/2008 12:36:47 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Scarcity is underrated. Obamao for President!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

Thanks for the ping!


123 posted on 11/01/2008 4:43:14 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (Make sure to VOTE for McCain-Palin!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

Sunspots burn off methane and there’s been no sunspots? Not to worry - liberals could be freezing to death and they’d still believe in global warming...


124 posted on 11/01/2008 7:22:20 AM PDT by GOPJ (The troll "spot" is often Reply #2 or #3. Trolls deflate & cast doubt on good threads. Watch for it,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: George Smiley

“I heard that earthworm farts were much more concentrated than cow farts.”

You have great hearing.


125 posted on 11/01/2008 4:54:17 PM PDT by repubpub
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-125 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson