When good men did nothing [Kristallnacht 70th Anniversary]

Jerusalem Post ^ | 11-9-08 | MITCHELL BARD

[PhilDragoo]

[Shooter 2.5]

I don't ask God for anything.

We have to work harder for the Republican Party because it's going to be a rough four years.

There is a small glimmer of hope, though. It's in the form of a nutcase aptly named Phil Berg. On December 1, obama has to surrender his birth certificate to the Supreme Court. It might get interesting.

[SJackson]

One scholar pointed out that after Kristallnacht the situation for the Jews became less dangerous on the surface but the conditions for the Jews became more menacing.

I don't know, but I'd question that assertion. If I'm not mistaken the infamous badges were instituted immediately after Kristallnacht, worn under penalty of death. Enforcement of restrictions on things like employment were tigntened. I can't imagine things "on the street" got better for Jews, now immediately identifiable.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Ironically, it was Hitler’s loathsome civilian national security corps, the SA, or brownshirts, who provided the “boots on the ground” to make the Kristallnacht happen. Without them, the German public probably wouldn’t have committed such an act on such a grand scale.

But Hitler loved corps. Along with the SA, and the Stormtroopers, he had the Labor Service Corps, Hitler Youth Corps, German Veterans Corps, Hitler Leadership Corps, Speakers Corps, Women’s Corps, German Student’s Corps, Teacher’s Corps, Labor Corps, and Lawyer’s Corps.

Obama plans to expand AmeriCorps, USA Freedom Corps, VISTA, YouthBuild Program, and the Senior Corps. And form new Classroom Corps, Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, Veterans Corps, Homeland Security Corps, Global Energy Corps, and a Green Jobs Corps.

[SJackson]

That’s true, just as they assured his election in 1933.

[SJackson]

Though quite dissimilar, there is an underlying connection between armed militia outside te Reichstag for the vote and open balloting for union ratification. Intimidation.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Hitler was never elected. He was appointed Chancellor.

[quadrant]

If I'm not mistaken (and I freely admit that I may be) I believe the scholar meant that outright and visible persecution - that is, persecution that could be seen by the world press - was less after Kristallnacht, but that persecution that could not be seen became more severe.
Again, I'm not an expert and the issue has perplexed me.

[quadrant]

I have no hesitation about asking God for the things that are needed, especially for the care of this country, its people, and its system of government.

[SJackson]

Again, I’d go back to the badges. Ones Jewishness on clear display, under penalty of death, it doesn’t get much more visible than that. I’d be curious what he meant myself. He’s correct persecution in general continued to ramp up, but I can’t see how everyday, public life could have been easier.

[SJackson]

I wasn’t clear, I was referring to the Enabling Act which essentially cemented his power. The vote taken with the SA providing “security”, and mobs of supporters surrounding the temporary Reichstag building.

[quadrant]

Perhaps I'm mistaken and I may be. But if one knows that one is required to wear a badge on penalty of death, the idea is demeaning and insulting, but at least the rule is clear. Wear it or....
The question is, “Were Jews who were wearing the badge subjected to the routine humiliations that were common before Kristallnacht?”

[Brad’s Gramma]

BTTT

[KAUAIBOUND]

Actually, the SA was effectively ended by Hitler in 1934 with the purge of its leaders:

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/roehm-bio.htm

But Hitler had other paramilitary groups as you state.

[SJackson]

I don't know, though I've never that case made before.

At that point they'd been stripped of citizenship, government and many forms of private empolyment, the right to transfer and in many cases own property. Most were attempting to flee the country. It's possible there was a short term decline in public humiliations, many Christians were outraged by Kristallnacht, many participated. IMO common sense suggests that probaly wasn't the case. It would be interesting to know just what evidence the professor bases that opinion on. Point 5 of Heydrich's order

5. As soon as the course of events during the night permits the release of the officials required, as many Jews in all districts – especially the rich – as can be accommodated in existing prisons are to be arrested. For the time being only healthy male Jews, who are not too old, are to be detained. After the detentions have been carried out the appropriate concentration camps are to be contacted immediately for the prompt accommodation of the Jews in the camps. Special care is to be taken that the Jews arrested in accordance with these instructions are not ill-treated....

suggests that if things did imporve, the improvement was accidental

[quadrant]

If improvement did occur, it was probably incidental to the increasingly perilous state of German Jewry. Perhaps one might liken it to being in the eye of a hurricane; that is, a place of temporary and relative calm before the torrent reappears.

[BroJoeK]

"The question is, “Were Jews who were wearing the badge subjected to the routine humiliations that were common before Kristallnacht?” "

Don't know the answer, or even if your assumption is true.
But it's worth remembering that by this time, nearly every Jew who could leave Germany had left, or was desperately trying to.

Those who remained were mostly too old, too poor, or possibly believed they were somehow protected from the worst. For sure, they would try to remain inconspicuous.

Which means that from the perspective of public humiliations, there may well indeed have been fewer after Kristallnact.

Because there were fewer Jews to humiliate!

[Ciexyz]

Let us never forget.

[quadrant]

It is a deep shame that this country was unwilling to give these people refuge.

[gogogodzilla]

Why is it always the Jews?

Considering their population size, you ascribe them far more voting power than they really have.