ya think?
Posted on 11/09/2008 12:58:49 PM PST by 4buttons
RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.
Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly.
The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.
(Excerpt) Read more at carolinajournal.com ...
This is surprising to whom?
No surprise to me. They’ve already gutted my IRA, and the irony is that they wouldn’t ever allow me to add to or withdraw anything from it. Because it was inherited. So whatever the death tax didn’t get six years ago, has now been stolen. It’s hard to not feel that we are in a hopeless situation.
Vultures.
This would be an issue the GOP can win on in 2010 and 2012....Dems stealing our private retirement accounts.
Unfortunately...we will have liberal and moderate GOPs who will side w the Dems on this.
For all of us -- how (besides the death tax) did they do it?
This will shore up social security for a few years, until that money gets spent too.
It smells of the Cloward-Piven strategy.
ya think?
Not if you take the hit and cash out. Put it under your pillow or go to Vegas.
I saw where they are trying to say this is an urban legend because people were panic stricken.
"Confiscation" is also known as theft. Why isn't it a shock that the democrats want to steal our retirement funds?!
A measly 3% return will continue to keep people ENSLAVED to the government. You will ALWAYS do better with private investment. It has it's ups and downs. The Demoncrats will capitalize on the DOWN side to GET YOUR MONEY.
401K’s are tax benefit. Stroke of the pen can change them. Just because some broker/investment firm invests the money does not change the fact that it is a tax benefit.
Folks, if you love your children and grand-children, read political philosphy and US history from approximately 1500 to 1800; also, read Locke, Thoreau, Hobbs, Roiusseau, The Federalist Papers. If we do not know history and appreciate what was spent in the creation of this country, we either will lose it or spend our blood to save it for the generations to come.
Yea - Take it while you still can, before they grab it for themselves. No surprise, they want your money for their programs. It's disgusting.
If and when all this starts to happen, can anyone blame us for seriously looking into leaving? I certainly do not want everything I’ve saved going to support a**holes who have sat on their a**es for the past 25 years.
Do any of these politicians understand that some people actually live responsibly and are tired of paying for parasites? Or that to take my savings that I sacrificed for is theft and will be seen, by me at least, as theives stealing my property.
This is why there is a second amendment.
If you do a search, you will find that Democrats in Congress have made their desires public. This comes on the heels of the President of Argentina (Argentina - our new role model!) decreeing the confiscation of Argentine workers retirement accounts to pay for her Socialist follies.
Great (Socialist) minds think alike.
PS. It is no coincidence that the Dems want to take our retirement accounts, now that many peoples’ account values are probably at the lowest level. What a bargain for the Social Security (Ponzi) Scheme.
They just forgot to mention one tiny little detail of their scam they hope won’t be made too big a deal about.
Now if you retire at 67 with a nice balance in your account then die young in an accident or natural causes your heirs will then inherit the balance of what you invested and saved of your hard work. You know, your wages and earnings that haven’t been redistributed yet by the Big Jackass.
This plan once you and your spouse die the balance will become property of the USG, no more inheritance for your kids. There will also be no more buying large once-in-a-lifetime things like a trip around the world or that vintage sports car you have always wanted. It will be doled out to you like a child’s allowance.
Exactly. Use Fannie & Freddie to wipe out the financial markets. Steal and destroy all wealth. Help your billionairew and hedge fund allies short stocks into the dirt. Chris Cox at the SEC should have reinstituted the uptick rule on shorting and banned naked shorting.
The big crash in October was Cloward-Piven to beat McCain.
This is exactly what the leftists in Argentina are doing. The securities and insurance industry and Americans need to fight this like wild animals.
They7 got it by skimming a huge chunk off the top of the IRA when my Mom passed. Can’t have an inherited IRA worth more than $100K apparently. Can’t explain it more clearly......it’s like trying to read Greek.
And apparently I’m not allowed to let it exceed the $100K, have to keep withdrawing. BUT, if I try to USE some of the principle, then I get hit by big income tax.
Sorry I can’t explain it clearer than that. I’m a financial ninny.
You mean - stealing it. What's the point of putting it away if you aren't going to get it back? Screw you, Ms. Ghiliarducci! Screw you and your kind!
I have been wondering that for myself, whether to take the hit now with the penalties and taxes, or wait for it to go up some (like back to the August levels) and then get out. Out of curiosity, what are others of you thinking about doing?
The 401k’s have been too successful. They have to stop them. People might not depend on the Government social security check any more.
When I quit to take care of my parents, I took my retirement and 401k and invested it in a rollover IRA. It guarantees that I can get income for life based on a 6% return after 10 years.
Meantime I can chose from the investment accounts, and if I manage to get better than 6% I can use which ever is higher.
I was doing better before the market freefall.
At 6%, this is still better than my return on Social Security. STUUUUUUUUUUUUpid DemocRATS.
and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.
_________________________
How can they do this legally? My husband understands how they can manipulate the tax code, but confiscating our retirement account sounds dubious to him as this would be illegal.
I actually thought this would be a good issue this year and didn't hear a peep about it.
uptick rule??? Do you think that would have eliminated the toxic paper that were created off the mortgage market. Toxic paper that is still falling all over the world is what is killing the financial industry. Their own damn greed. Freddie/Fannie pulled the trigger that set off the nuclear blast we are experiencing.
And will stifle personal production 100%.
“You will ALWAYS do better with private investment. Tell that to those who did just that and want to retire. Do you think they will live long enough to recoup their loses?”
I will take my chances thank you very much. I would rather lose money in the market, my destiny in my own hands, than have socialists steal it from me and take my property and give it to others.
I was told that you are required by law to take a certain percentage every year in an inherited IRA. I do not know why.
Related, from the past week’s WSJ:
Argentina-
“That revenues would, at some point, fail to meet the rising expenses of the welfare state was predictable. The only mystery was when the wall would be hit and how the further plunder to make up the difference would be carried out.
On Oct. 21, Mrs. Kirchner ended the suspense by announcing that the nation’s private pension system — with a stock of $30 billion and a flow of $5 billion annually — would become government property. To put that in words that Americans can more clearly comprehend, it would be as if the assets of all 401(k)s were suddenly swept out of owners’ accounts and into a single government account.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122567336191591913.html
Lauding GRAs as a way to effectively increase retirement savings, Ghilarducci wrote that savings incentives are unequal for rich and poor families because tax deferrals “provide a much larger ‘carrot’ to wealthy families than to middle-class families — and none whatsoever for families too poor to owe taxes.”
A good reason they get away with this gobbledegook is because of gutless "Republicans" sitting on their hands.
No, Thieves.
We can roll them into insurance contracts like annuities, universal index life (UIL) and other contracts that do the same thing as a 401K and IRA. UIL’s actually allow you to get the money out later tax free. By stealing your money - they will violate a contract between you and the insurance company. This would set another very bad legal precendent. Would it slow or stop them? Who knows.
Somehow I doubt they will screw with the insurance industry. They control most of the wealth in this country. They buy or may not buy govt bonds. Insurance companies have been around for 400 years ... pre-marxism. They employ a lot of people and will fight like wild dogs. Remember how docs and the medical industry fought back against Hillary care? Clinton/Dems lost Congress due to that and other things.
Make 8.29 tax free
No contribution limits
No age restrictions
No tax on growth
No tax on pay out
No stocks or mutual fund
Guaranteed 1% growth, no loss of principle
Tax free death benefit
Out ran S&P last 10 years and last 25 years
Tax-advantaged Indexed Universal Life Insurance.
Who you going to go to and get it enforced? IRS? DOJ? Appointed judges?
And that is what is so great about freedom. You are free to make choices.
I remember when the push was for everyone to get into CD’s. All my friends thought they were gonna be make a killing. They didn’t. IMO, guess why that program was pushed so hard? Whatever the news tells me to do—I do the opposite—they are not serving J6P.
S & L Scandal
I heard a congresscreature last week say, the proposal on the table is optional. Put your money with feds, get a small guarantee or don't put it there. They are taking the onus off the employers and giving it to the government.
Vultures.
It takes the mindset of a vulture to achieve the prominence to be able to actually show what a vulture is capable of doing.
EA, you are no vulture.
Locke, Hobbes, and the Federalist Papers are indeed worthwhile. Thoreau is for entertainment and Rousseau is the wellspring of many of today's utopian socialist follies. Better to read Burke, Mises, Hayek, Friedman, and de Tocqueville.
The government cannot confiscate anything of yours without due process. There are 93 million in IRAs, 401ks etc. That’s a lot of voters.
Miller’s biggest priority has been on legislation aimed at greater transparency in 401(k)s and other retirement plan administration, specifically regarding fees, Albright said, and he sent a link to a Fox News interview of Miller on Oct. 24, 2008, to show that the congressman had not made a decision.
After repeated questions asked by Neil Cavuto of Fox News, Miller said he would not be in favor of “killing the 401(k)” or of “killing the tax advantages for 401(k)s.”
What about the other members? Miller backed down in the face of public scrutiny. Kind of.
See my 37
So take a leave of abscence from your work and just ride on some of that principle.
Let me see. I believe AIG was the largest insurance company. IIRC I remember seeing an article at Bloomberg where insurance companies are now at the Fed window. I am sure you can find it but if not I will try to locate the article.
"Guaranteed" to be paid back in inflated dollars worth a mere fraction of what they were when they were earned by the sweat of your brow.
The government will not address IULs. No one looks at them like retirement programs. The companies cannot advertise them as such. That’s the beauty, buy a policy and use it for retirement and still retain the death benefit. Very few others know what they are.
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