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The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have
Business Week ^ | September 4, 2008 | David Kiley

Posted on 11/09/2008 7:02:49 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

If ever there was a car made for the times, this would seem to be it: a sporty subcompact that seats five, offers a navigation system, and gets a whopping 65 miles to the gallon. Oh yes, and the car is made by Ford Motor (F), known widely for lumbering gas hogs.

Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic goes on sale in November. But here's the catch: Despite the car's potential to transform Ford's image and help it compete with Toyota Motor (TM) and Honda Motor (HMC) in its home market, the company will sell the little fuel sipper only in Europe. "We know it's an awesome vehicle," says Ford America President Mark Fields. "But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.

Automakers such as Volkswagen (VLKAY) and Mercedes-Benz (DAI) have predicted for years that a technology called "clean diesel" would overcome many Americans' antipathy to a fuel still often thought of as the smelly stuff that powers tractor trailers. Diesel vehicles now hitting the market with pollution-fighting technology are as clean or cleaner than gasoline and at least 30% more fuel-efficient.

Yet while half of all cars sold in Europe last year ran on diesel, the U.S. market remains relatively unfriendly to the fuel. Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline. Add to this the success of the Toyota Prius, and you can see why only 3% of cars in the U.S. use diesel. "Americans see hybrids as the darling," says Global Insight auto analyst Philip Gott, "and diesel as old-tech."

(Excerpt) Read more at businessweek.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: automakers; automobiles; diesel; economy; energy; environment; ford; fordmotor; globalwarming; oil
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Can't or won't? My 1984 Mercedes 300D turbo that cost me $100 runs just fine four years later. It'll probably make it to a million miles (I only have 140K on it).
1 posted on 11/09/2008 7:02:49 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Can’t. That engine doesn’t meet US emissions standards.


2 posted on 11/09/2008 7:04:08 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

$100.. wow, I would love a classic Merc Diesel from the 80s..


3 posted on 11/09/2008 7:04:25 PM PST by mnehring
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To: Spktyr

How are the japanese and Germans doing it? Read the whole article.


4 posted on 11/09/2008 7:04:52 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The US taxes diesel at a higher rate in order to keep people from shifting over from gasoline as a pollution-fighting measure. It costs less per gallon to produce diesel, and diesels get better milage. It is only our benighted tax policies that keep the US consumer from benefiting from this simple math.


5 posted on 11/09/2008 7:06:04 PM PST by gridlock (Don't blame me... I voted for Palin!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Nobody is saying that diesel engines won’t meet the standard, just the specific engine in that Ford.


6 posted on 11/09/2008 7:06:58 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: mnehrling

Many of them have survived in Houston and Dallas. I had an 85 300D Turbo for a while.


7 posted on 11/09/2008 7:08:01 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

The engine meets emission standards, the diesel we sell in the USA doesn’t meet the cars requirements.

The Ford fiesta is for sale in Canada as well.


8 posted on 11/09/2008 7:09:22 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Locate a spare transmission for it and get it rebuilt ahead of time. The 300D Turbo trans likes to go out around 150-200K.


9 posted on 11/09/2008 7:09:25 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

the problem is not Ford but the govt and the unions.


10 posted on 11/09/2008 7:10:18 PM PST by ari-freedom (So this is how Liberty dies... with thunderous applause)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Incorrect, we sell the ultra-low sulfur diesel that the Fiesta needs. The Fiesta diesel in Canada doesn’t use the same engine as the 65mpg Euro version.


11 posted on 11/09/2008 7:10:29 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: gridlock
The US taxes diesel at a higher rate in order to keep people from shifting over from gasoline as a pollution-fighting measure. It costs less per gallon to produce diesel, and diesels get better milage. It is only our benighted tax policies that keep the US consumer from benefiting from this simple math.

It is also the oil companies, they know we can grow Bio-diesel and it would drive down the price of fuel. So they support the cash cow of ethanol. The politicians really don't give a damn about the voters, it is all about who gives them the checks and the hoes.

12 posted on 11/09/2008 7:11:05 PM PST by org.whodat ( "the Whipped Dog Party" , what was formally the republicans.)
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To: steelyourfaith; xcamel; Tolerance Sucks Rocks

GW ping.


13 posted on 11/09/2008 7:13:46 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Don't blame me, I voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin. Well, for Sarah Palin, anyway.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When I worked for Chrysler, we were testing diesel engines in just about every vehicle in the Chrysler lineup. They performed great, and are a lot cleaner with the new emissions systems. Too bad the EPA wouldn’t allow them to be sold in the U.S. The engineers I spoke with said that the EPA policy against diesel passenger vehicles is the only reason why they’re not sold here.


14 posted on 11/09/2008 7:14:36 PM PST by factoryrat (Better living through superior firepower)
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To: Spktyr

Obama can fix this with an executive order.


15 posted on 11/09/2008 7:16:27 PM PST by Shanty Shaker
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To: Spktyr
"Incorrect, we sell the ultra-low sulfur diesel that the Fiesta needs. The Fiesta diesel in Canada doesn’t use the same engine as the 65mpg Euro version.'

So what 65 mpg diesel engine does the Canadian version use then? (And the VW's and other Europeon diesel models) I really don't know what the problem with having these new super efficient low emission diesels in the USA. They more than surpass our toughest emission laws. I think it's just a phobia of diesels being the stinky, noisy, smoke belching engines of yester-year preventing them from being sold here.

16 posted on 11/09/2008 7:16:49 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

Actually, they don’t all surpass them. See the lack of diesels we had in 2007.

Euro pollution standards for cars is actually a lot looser than those of the US.


17 posted on 11/09/2008 7:18:33 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Canada’s emissions standards are also looser than the US’s. Heck, they allowed Russian-made Lada Nivas there.


18 posted on 11/09/2008 7:19:38 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Nice. Are many of these still around?


19 posted on 11/09/2008 7:19:44 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: gridlock

Really? I didn’t know that but it does make perfect sense. I always wondered why diesel was so expensive because, as you said, it costs much less to produce. I’ll bet most people in this country don’t realize they are paying the government a bit for every can of beans and roll of toilet paper they buy that is delivered by a truck, which all of it is.


20 posted on 11/09/2008 7:21:40 PM PST by pepperdog (The world has gone crazy.)
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To: Spktyr

My mechanic is a Hispanic gentleman in Dallas who is a former Mercedes Master Mechanic. Somehow, he is able to source parts for me way under what a dealership charges and his labor costs are dimes on the dollar. I buy minor parts at O’Reilly, believe it or not.


21 posted on 11/09/2008 7:22:04 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s another case of the crazies screwing things up in the name of the environment—when, in fact, it wastes more fossil fuels and in the end produces more pollution.

I had a diesel Rabbit back when they sold them here. Great car, even back then before the technology in Europe really improved diesel engines.

Obama will predictably make things worse. It’s part of the Democrat game plan, and most Republicans are too fearful to fight it.


22 posted on 11/09/2008 7:22:39 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: org.whodat
"It is also the oil companies, they know we can grow Bio-diesel and it would drive down the price of fuel."

But the oil companies own most all of the commercial bio diesel plants here.

And yes, you can make your own bio diesl, but you have to be very careful making it. Even though these engines can burn it without modification, it has to be made to the right grade standards, or else you WILL destroy the fuel injector, which are extremely expensive on these new diesel engines.

That's why an old VW diesel rabbit engine is so popular, they were much more forgiving with badly made home made diesel.

23 posted on 11/09/2008 7:23:29 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What a coincidence, I’m also in Dallas.

There are mail order parts houses one can get parts cheaper at, plus WorldPac Foreign Car Parts has their distribution warehouse in Farmers Branch.


24 posted on 11/09/2008 7:23:34 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

With the new California carbon dioxide standards you can forget about having a diesel. California is aiming to ban the internal combustion engine and Obama has promised to remove the blockades President Bush put in place to stop them.


25 posted on 11/09/2008 7:24:24 PM PST by Shanty Shaker
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To: randomhero97

Quite a few, it would seem: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?num_records=25&search_lang=en&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&search_type=used&distance=0&address=76132&marketZipError=false&style_flag=1&make=MB&model=300_CLASS_E_CLASSCLASS_SERIES&make2=&start_year=1981&end_year=1985&min_price=&max_price=&seller_type=b&transmission=&engine=&drive=&doors=&fuel=&max_mileage=&color=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywords_display=&sort_type=priceDESC&body_code=0&certified=&advanced=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&showZipError=n&default_sort=priceDESC&awsp=false&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&systime=


26 posted on 11/09/2008 7:27:22 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: Spktyr

All the 2008 2009 new tech diesel made in Europe surpass California emission standards.

These new diesel engines are like nothing you ever heard. they are very quiet, yet very powerful. You can’t tell they are diesels just by listening to them. I’ve seen quite a few of them in Canada already.

You are correct about Canada’s emission standard though, although they aren’t far off. They just don’t keep up with California’s ever changing EPA standards, always a few years behind.


27 posted on 11/09/2008 7:29:05 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

Not all of them meet the standards, which is why we don’t have a diesel Liberty (though we may soon) any more, and why

The Mercedes BlueTecs do, as do the latest TDIs from VW - but the Peugeots that Ford uses *don’t* yet and neither does anything from VM Motori.


28 posted on 11/09/2008 7:31:28 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Nathan Zachary

To make diesel out of rapeseed, all you need to do is squeeze it. Anyone can build a plant to do so.http://www.cogeneration.net/rapeseed_biodiesel.htm


29 posted on 11/09/2008 7:32:38 PM PST by org.whodat ( "the Whipped Dog Party" , what was formally the republicans.)
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To: Shanty Shaker

Those new diesels have lower carbon specs than gasoline engines.

What makes nme scratch my head however, is why Ford USA, GM doesn’t make an ethanol burning diesel instead. They are even more efficient than those Ero diesels. And extemely powerfull @28:1 compression ratios.


30 posted on 11/09/2008 7:33:11 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Spktyr

I read an article about this last week. That article included several other fuel efficient cars made by US Auto Companies.

The price tag was the stated reason. These cars cost about $24,000 base price, and are not believed to be competetive against entry level vehicles costing at least 40% less.

But in Obamanation surely we can all just receive a $12,000 or more tax credit so everyone can have an O-car. It could even have that round symbol thingy on it.(sarc)


31 posted on 11/09/2008 7:33:15 PM PST by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: mnehrling
"$100.. wow, I would love a classic Merc Diesel from the 80s."

You can say that again.

32 posted on 11/09/2008 7:33:45 PM PST by Mikey (Freedom isn't free, but slavery is.)
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To: Shanty Shaker
Obama can fix this with an executive order.

And Oprah could give them out to her viewing audience!

33 posted on 11/09/2008 7:33:53 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

makes me want to given a 25B bailout...how bout you??


34 posted on 11/09/2008 7:37:32 PM PST by garykfd (American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God!)
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To: org.whodat
You have to do a lot more than squeeze the oil out of canola, my friend. You have to remove the glycerin from the veggie oil by preforming a process called 'esterfication'. Burning straight veggie oil will coke up and wreck one of those diesels faster than you can say,

"Man, did I ever do a stupid thing putting this crap in my gas tank and driving around all day. Now after it sat all night and cooled off, it seems to be siezed..."

35 posted on 11/09/2008 7:41:10 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Shanty Shaker
Obama can fix this with an executive order.

Bush could have fixed this years ago the same way.

36 posted on 11/09/2008 7:42:40 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Old news and previously posted. Nothing to see here, move on.


37 posted on 11/09/2008 7:43:01 PM PST by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: org.whodat
If you want to learn how to make GOOD bio diesel that will run in anything, go here-

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

38 posted on 11/09/2008 7:44:05 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion; calcowgirl; Horusra; CygnusXI; Entrepreneur; Defendingliberty; WL-law; ...
Thanx !

 




Beam me to Planet Gore !

39 posted on 11/09/2008 7:44:43 PM PST by steelyourfaith
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To: greeneyes

They’d have to ship the cars over rather than make them here, too - imagine what the UAW would do to those cars instead of making them properly!


40 posted on 11/09/2008 7:46:06 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Nathan Zachary
LOL, I did say you should burn it straight, but there are several places on the Internet that will give you a step by step , in your garage method for, treatment doing it. Last I heard Eastman was building two plants.
41 posted on 11/09/2008 7:46:18 PM PST by org.whodat ( "the Whipped Dog Party" , what was formally the republicans.)
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To: Spktyr

Can’t imagine it-too scary LOL.


42 posted on 11/09/2008 7:49:13 PM PST by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

I hope you recognize my sarcasm. Obama is pledging to make this worse. California is at war with Bush over this already.


43 posted on 11/09/2008 7:54:10 PM PST by Shanty Shaker
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To: gridlock
Gasoline is taxed federally at 18.4 cents per gallon, diesel is taxed at 24.4 cents per gallon. That is not exactly a big pollution fighting difference.

There is no tax on red-dyed diesel (meant for off-road/farm use only).

44 posted on 11/09/2008 7:58:04 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Ever notice that Obama supporters chant "O-Bahm-AH" while McCain/Palin supporters chant "U-S-A".)
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To: org.whodat
Buy an old diesel, and convert it to ethanol. Currently ethanol is about $1.68 a gallon. You just have to buy it in bulk quantities.

You can modify a gas engine too if you like to take advantage of alcohols better qualities. Alcohol isn't so good in low compression engines though.

Properly built, an alcohol engine gets better mileage and has tons more HP than any production gas engine.

There is absolutely no reason we can have high powered cars like the 60's/70's except running alcohol now that alcohol is much more readily available.

A diesel/ alcohol engine is freakin' awsome. Runs at 28:1 compression and produces gobs of power from a tiny little 4 cyl. Unfortunately NASA only makes them in conjunction with another company from Brazil for use in diesel electric buses they are building and using on an experimental development stage. Not available to us dumb Americans.

Nothing stopping Gm from making them though, except they'd be TOO efficient

45 posted on 11/09/2008 7:59:13 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: org.whodat

PS. They are claiming 100 mpg service miles on these alcohol powered diesel/electric buses.


46 posted on 11/09/2008 8:07:26 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

Flash point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point


47 posted on 11/09/2008 8:12:09 PM PST by org.whodat ( "the Whipped Dog Party" , what was formally the republicans.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If Ford goes bankrupt or begs for a Federal bailout, while withholding their world cars which could turn their story around, I will cry no tears. Ford has marketed energy-efficient cars for years in Europe while building giant SUVs here. Love them or hate them, small cars are the future. Ford has them all designed and produced. How about the Ka and SportKa? Not for America. New Fiesta? Nope.

Hey Ford, I'm not bailing you out of stupidity. Stupidity. Hello?

48 posted on 11/09/2008 8:13:04 PM PST by Sender (Never lose your ignorance; you can never regain it!)
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To: Nathan Zachary

It would require that you step down the compression ratio as stated, but would probably work well. The new ultra low sulfur diesels run very hot, as probably would the ethanol. The reason I prefer the oil is that you can produce it cheaper than ethanol.


49 posted on 11/09/2008 8:17:34 PM PST by org.whodat ( "the Whipped Dog Party" , what was formally the republicans.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

50 posted on 11/09/2008 8:29:26 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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