Posted on 11/14/2008 10:44:12 AM PST by shortstop
You may have heard about Argentina's plan to nationalize private retirement accounts. Some Democrats on Capitol Hill are inspired, and with their big election victory they may get the chance to test Peronist ideas in America.
Meet Congressmen George Miller and Jim McDermott, who are eager to change the way Americans save for their golden years. They'll also be powerbrokers in the next Congress. Mr. Miller, who came in with the Class of 1974 from California, chairs the House Education and Labor Committee. Mr. McDermott, who has represented Seattle the past two decades, runs a House Ways and Means subcommittee on income security and family support.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Targeting is such an apropos word..................
When this swindle picks up steam a 2000 DJIA will be considered high.
Yeah, because they LOVED the idea of voluntary privatization of Social Security.
” test Peronist ideas in America”
With Michelle as our very own Evita.
I think these are Marxist ideas.
Once, there was a time where 401Ks did not exist and we survived, and when they exist no more, we will survive then also. Same goes for social security.
How can the government confiscate my money like that? If they want to elimanate them and tax the amount as income that is one thing, but to outright sieze it? I guess I do not understand this whole proposal.
The proposal amounts to a 5% personal income tax increase. They want another 5% of your paycheck, on top of the social security taxes. They promise to invest it for we, the sheeplings.
This is disturbing. The intent is to take us to socialism, bit by bit by bit.
“I think these are Marxist ideas.”
Peron was actually a Fascist. Different kind of evil.
When this nation is completely tanked, then we can flush the political class down the toilet and start over again!
Once all your needs are met by the Fed Govt, why would private property be necessary?
They'll blame it on Bush.
I understand.
The ultimate strawman fallacy, "we will survive".
Unbelievable.
“The intent is to take us to socialism, bit by bit by bit.”
The Democrats methodology of turning the US into a socialist, third world nation, via “incremental change” (aka bit by bit by bit) has been in effect for decades. Now that the Rats smell victory, the increments (or the bits) seem to be getting larger.
“How can the government confiscate my money like that?... I guess I do not understand this whole proposal.”
I would suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and probably Mein Kampf as well. At least read the Cliff’s Notes versions. It’s all spelled out in there.
—bflr—
How? Why, with the stroke of a pen.
FDR did as much in 1933 with gold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
You’re pretty flip about my life’s savings there, fella.
Fascist, Marxist, Democrat...
You say toh-may-toh, I say toh-mah-toh...
Either way, we’re all going to be broke soon enough.
One thing I WILL say. Unlike those lyin’ Republicans, the Democrats will keep their word to the American people: Things are definitely gonna CHANGE, ‘cause HOPE is all we’ll have with which to feed our families.
RE: “I think these are Marxist ideas.”
*************
I agree — and I’m shipping this WSJ article via e-mail to everyone I know who has any interest in the topic at all. A couple of them are naysayers (”Nah, this won’t happen”)
No? Sheeple need to stop thinking things are going to be just dandy and start paying close attention to Washington. Things aren’t bad enough already?
Conservatives have proven with emperical evidence The New Deal and The Great Society failures, too, but you don't see those programs and policies on the chopping block.
http://www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204.html
That is Theresa G's position paper on replacing 401k plans with the "Guaranteed Retirement Plan".
HEY DC HOW ABOUT THIS::
LEAVE US ALONE!!!!!!
geesh
“Once, there was a time where 401Ks did not exist and we survived, and when they exist no more, we will survive then also. Same goes for social security”
Huh? Did you forget your /sarc tag?
And here we go. Who wants to take a bet on how soon this socialized retirement program will be bankrupt because their is more outflow than inflow, and the amount of money retirees get each month won’t cover their health and living expenses?
Plus they’re going to set a fixed rate of return on that investment at around 5%?
Plus we know that the government will increasingly tax the monthly payments just as it continues to do with SS.
Possibly, but then this is not the 1850s or the 1950s and that situation will never exist again. Unless you are independently wealthy you can count on working until you drop dead taking home very little of your income due to taxes.
I called the offices of my senators and congresswoman to communicate my strong objection to this unconscionable idea. Disturbingly, none of them had a clue about it. I encouraged the staffers to become informed, if only for the sakes of their own personal retirement funds. I don’t feel like I’m represented in Washington, but I can make noise and pass along these kinds of articles to friends and family.
Good, we’ll just ask them to take your shit first.
For those of us who are retired and living off income from our 401k’s, this would spell personal financial disaster.
Many recent retirees had their entire retirement fund rolled into a 401k/ira rollover account and are doing just fine with no govt assistance.
There are a lot of cry babies out there..most of them with very small 401s that are upset at the loses, but some of us, who manage our accounts have not sustained the loses.
Cash was looking very good all year this year.
So you have no problem with government confiscation of people's life savings? Or am I reading your comment wrong?
I perfer the old fashioned word - "stealing". They're stealing the money from 401K's.
I mentioned closing my 401K 6 months ago, but the account said I would lose half of it. Losing half looks like a pretty good option now.
You want to know how this is pure theft and not a vested retirement plan? Their plan makes no mention of being able to draw on your vested funds for emergencies, college tuition...etc.
Is that you Obama? or Rahm? Or, George Miller?
Juan Barack Huessain Obama-Peron?
Something that I’ve wondered since I heard about this is just what is going to happen to the economy if they were to try it.
Since the vast majority of 401K plans invest in stock market mutual funds, one of 2 things would need to happen for the government to steal, I mean confiscate our 401Ks. Either the government just takes the funds and keeps the shares, or they sell off the funds.
If the government just takes the shares we own in the funds, they will take control of those funds. That means that the government would become an investor in mutual funds or in stocks (much like what they’ve done with the banks). Not a really good idea.
The second option is for the government to sell off the shares, and take the money. But in order to sell a share of stock, there has to be a person willing to buy it. More importantly, if there’s a WHOLE LOT of shares to sell, all at once, you wind up seeing the prices of those shares drop like a stone. Basically, the government would “crash,” if not completely destroy the economy.
Mark
Before one steals, one must target...............
Amnesty for illegals will be the final nail!
FROM THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO:
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
LOL, so you're into theft by the government?
Met 'em.
Forget 'em.
Well, before 401K plans existed, people didn't have their retirement funds invested in them. These booger-eating-morons are talking about CONFISCATING private funds, removing your control from those funds, and "investing" them in government "accounts," but put limits on just how you can get to them, and what happens to the funds that you saved after you die.
Big Difference!
Mark
Looks like the Dem party platform to me. You don’t suppose they copied it from Karl do you? No, they wouldn’t have done that. Copying is cheating and Democrats don’t ... hey, wait!
Of course I know this is stealing and they have no intention of letting you have any access to the money again. It's a scam to take the money and redistribute it. Where do you think they're gonna get the money for the extra $5 trillion they've committed to in this bailout - it certainly isn't from that 5% that the Asshole-in-Chief talks about.
401k’s get their name from the tax code...where they are given a tax break....it will be removed. Then, you may opt for the 5% plan...or do it yourself, but with no tax breaks.
You may also opt to “roll” yourr exisiting 401k fund into the “fixed” fund provided by the government.
Nobody will force you to give up the money you already have saved.
And...after saying all of the above....this sucks.
Four years ago, the RATS demonized President Bush for the idea of Individual Retirement Accounts. The uproar killed any hope of saving Social Security.
Today, not only have the RATS stolen the idea of Individual Retirement Accounts, but they go one better - stealing people’s money.
Chirp, chirp, chirp.
Once the government has our money, they’ll raid it to buy votes and by the time we retire, it’ll be gone like Social Security.
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