Skip to comments.Constitutional crisis looming over Obama's birth location
Posted on 11/14/2008 7:05:09 PM PST by solfour
The California secretary of state should refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until President-elect Barack Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office, alleges a California court petition filed on behalf of former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others.
The legal action today is just the latest is a series of challenges, some of which have gone as high as the U.S. Supreme Court, over the issue of Obama's status as a "natural-born citizen," a requirement set by the U.S. Constitution.
WND senior reporter Jerome Corsi even traveled to Kenya and Hawaii prior to the election to investigate issues surrounding Obama's birth. But his research and discoveries only raised more questions.
The biggest question is why Obama, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists, simply hasn't ordered it made available to settle the rumors.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
I think he already resigned.
but I say, go for it!
Start the new chant: “Elected but not Selected!!!!”
Obama is a fraud. We need to order psychiatric testing for the 52% of Americans who voted for this flim flam artist. What were they thinking???
Are you thinking of Arlan Spector with his silly “NOT PROVEN”?
Yup. Some drastic changes are going to have to be made in this regard, even at the state and local levels. Our state, TN, just had a revolutionary election. With an incoming GOP legislative majority for the first time since 1869, we’ll now be able to oust Democrat hacks occupying the statewide jobs, take control of every county election commission, change the election of judges, etc. As long as the Democrats controlled the legislature, their key source of power, and gerrymandered for years to prevent a GOP takeover (despite the fact the state has voted majority/plurality for Republican legislative candidates for 14 years), they controlled the state regardless of the party affiliation of the Governor. The Democrats (and their media propaganda arm) are now panic-stricken that we’re going to be getting rid of their hacks from top to bottom and begging US not to act in a partisan manner. 140 years, since Ulysses Grant’s election, they’ve kept their jackboot on our throats. It’s payback time.
I don’t see how the Right would be discredited. The Right is simply asking for proof to satisfy Constitutional requirements. If there is proof, then Obama looks a bit irresponsible, IMHO.
Congratulations! We may have to come over and take some notes!
That description of what would happen is incorrect.
Along with all the other stuff (do I need to enumerate here and now as it was nearly what this board was about for 8 years?) that Bill did it was a chance to get him out.
No BJ’s are not unconstitutional but PERJURY before congress is. Bill and his family did plenty of that before and during the hearing.
If they really wanted to they could have gotten him, but they did not want to upset the scratch your back network.
He has until Dec. 1st to respond to the suit. Nothing there that says he has to produce the birth certificate then.
Obama has to respond to the Petition for Writ of Certiorari by 1201/2008.
Presumably, he will ask SCOTUS to deny the petition, based on lack of standing - that is what he did in Circuit Court and Court of Appeals.
Then, Berg gets to respond to Obama’s response.
If SCOTUS denies Cert, then it is over. But, Obama would have to get ready for round 2 (Donofrio) and round 3 (Keyes). With 14 more in the pipeline ...
If SCOTUS grants Cert to Berg (or anyone in any subsequent case), then they can do one of two things:
1. They can remand back to the lower court for resolution. In which case, it would wind its way back to SCOTUS, since a decision (either way) would certainly be appealed all the way back to them.
2. They can assert original jurisdiction, bypassing the lower courts - since the case is coming back to them anyway. Also, the case is of national urgency.
Anyway, once the case is back at SCOTUS, the case would be argued and, presumably SCOTUS would order production of ALL related evidence (like BC, etc.).
The evidence would LIKELY undergo forensic analysis, results would be presented, legal precedence would be researched, chambers discusiion would likely occur, and a decision would be rendered.
If for Berg (or any other litigant, if Berg had already been denied) - Obama would be out.
If for Obama - Berg’s (or any other litigant’s) case is over. Then, presumably, ALL pending cases in ALL courts would be dismissed, including Donofrio and Keyes. Obama’s citizenship would have been established.
I was thinking today that people haven't been so disillusioned in government since Nixon.
Not one January 22 they can't. Then it does become an impeachment hearing. Now are you telling me that after bHo is sworn in they will do anything? Really?
It will be an MSM led destruction crew on the Republicans, and (like during Clinton's time in office) the public will not push for anything. 3/4s or more who don't want to be bothered "with all that political stuff".
I doubt even if the court takes this up they will not finish until well into the following summer or next year. The electoral votes will not matter at that time.
one should be “on”
Elections have been fraudulently run for centuries here to elect Democrats. Burr was one of the first in NYC to use ineligible voters to sway elections and his organization, Tammaney Hall dominated NY politics for the next century reaching unbelievable heights of corruption.
Some states early on even allowed illegal aliens to vote. Gangs roamed the streets beating opponents daring to vote the wrong way. There was no secret ballot. Our history is not what many think.
See the movie “Gangs of New York” for a great example of how it was done circa 1860. Your “Hill Billy party” was created through the NY-Virginia alliance formed by Jefferson and Burr prior to 1800 and has always dominated the big cities throughout the nation.
The party has always been associated with corruption and class warfare even producing a Civil War rather than abide by the Constitution.
Right it was stupifyingly stupid of the Senate to try such a stunt.
Who’s to say the will of the people wouldn’t have been different if they knew Obama wasn’t a natural born citizen?
Some people think we discredit ourselves when we don’t lick the Overlord’s boots fast enough. Some apparently are willing to accept any enormity. It gets easier to understand how Hitler was able to murder millions when attitudes like this surface.
“Not a peep out of MSM”
Nor Fox or any other radio or TV networks
And since they didn’t, that argument can’t be made...that he was chosen anyway....correct?
Stupefying stupid senatorial saps.
Obviously I was speaking of before a new president is sworn in not impeaching one since Cheney will not be President of the Senate on January 22. And I was speaking of what is called for under the Constitution a document not meant for gutless cowards and immoral crooks.
But even the Treason media will not be able to ignore this much longer even if to ridicule it. Nor can they pin it on Republicans since they have not been carrying the ball here.
Well, congratulate us in January. Knowing the Democrat Speaker as I do, who has been in office since 1974 and Speaker nearly 2 decades, he isn’t going to gracefully stand aside and he may try to pick off some RINOs (despite claims we have all the members supporting the GOP candidate). RINOs being the most treacherous breed (essentially, I consider them to be Democrat agents), they may try to keep the Dem minority in power.
We won a majority in the Senate 4 years ago, but the Dems retained control because 2 “R’s” voted for the Democrat Senate Speaker (for reasons a bit complicated to go into at this time). The Speaker, also holding office as Lieutenant Governor (the only such setup in any legislative body in the country), had held the office since 1971 (the longest serving legislative leader of any state in U.S. history) and decided to turn Dem partisan after playing fair with us for years, and in his mid 80s, he was clearly feeble and incompetent, and was “presiding” at a time numerous members of the Senate were being indicted and sent to prison.
In any event, it took a Democrat member of that body, sick of seeing such gross incompetence (the party even refused to replace the 86-year old in a party caucus and renominated him again for an unprecedented 19th term as Speaker - which pushed the Senator over the edge), to finally break the logjam and elect a Republican as Speaker (although we had a one-seat majority, one single RINO was going to vote for the Dem, but when she rendered his vote moot, he irritatingly cast it for the Republican, and then switched to a “Jim Jeffords” Independent — and we voted him out on Tuesday, so no backstabbers will be in the Senate in January).
The Democrats were so outraged at that lady Senator, that when she won a narrow renomination this year, the state party stripped her of the nomination (claiming “Republicans voted for her !”) and replaced her with the loser. She tried to run a write-in candidacy, but it’s very hard to do. The GOP leadership may install her in the seat in January anyway since she was duly renominated and there was no opposition on the ballot in November. That’s the kind of bold leadership we need to see by our people. What we’re scared to do, the Democrats don’t hesistate for a moment.
I think you're wrong because in light of the information not being released, it makes Obama look like he's actively hiding information. I don't think that if Republicans are wrong that they will lose all power to level criticism. His apparent secrecy could be criticized.
Yes. Sadly, there are many blacks that think Alan Keyes and men like him are “sellouts”.
I agree 100%.
That’s amazing that he was able to get his name on the ballot. If he’s inelligible, then his name has no business being on the ballot.
“a friend of mine says that if Obamas mother is a US citizen it doesnt matter where he was born...is this true?”
Thats not exactly true - that is just what the Immigration and Naturalization ACT (INA), as amended, currently states.
I do not know if the current statute has ever been tested at SCOTUS.
The Nationality Act of 1940, amended 1952, was law at the time of Obama’s birth - and cases like Obama’s circumstances were tested at SCOTUS.
At the time of his birth, the law required the U.S. citizen (Obama’s mother) to have resided in the United States for ten (10) years prior to his birth - which she did. However, five (5) of those years had to be after the age of fourteen (14) - which she DID NOT.
Obama’s mother was eighteen (18) when she gave birth. If she gave birth in Kenya - Obama is NOT a natural born citizen, a citizen by birth, or a citizen at birth, according to the laws in effect at the time. But, he might automatically be a naturalized citizen at birth - even if he is, he is ineligible to be POTUS.
Now, comes the hard part ... The INA has been amended many times since then.
The amendments usually contained a clause that stated that they DID NOT retroactively apply to previous citizenship status.
Can you imagine if a naturalized citizen (by birth) in 1940 was suddenly a natural born citizen. His children (if naturalized) would be natural born, and their children too.
Any court cases that were decided on the basis of citizenship (deportations, etc.) would have to be reversed ... what a nightmare.
Anyway, that was the justification for non-retroactive application of the INA. It applied GOING FORWARD.
However, in recent years, revisions to the INA HAVE NOT included this non-retroactive clause.
Therefore, per the law on the books at THIS time, Obama might be able to claim natural born citizenship status - even if he was born on the moon.
The current law states:
“... (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years ...” (United States Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Sub-Chapter III, Part I, Section 1401, Paragraph g).
You can clearly see that the time requirements have changed from ten (10) years to five (5) years presence in the United States and from five (5) years to two (2) years after the age of fourteen (14).
Now, current law DOES have a non-retroactive clause, but it states:
“Nothing in this subchapter shall be applied in contravention of the provisions of any treaty or convention to which the United States is a party and which has been ratified by the Senate before December 25, 1952 ... United States Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Sub-Chapter III, Part III, Section 1489).
I assume that this means that it applies to ALL of Sub-Chapter III and NOT to just Part III. However, I am NOT sure. Also, I do NOT know what (if any) conventions and/or treaties were in effect before December 25,1952.
AND, like I said, I DO NOT know if the current law (with its changed requirements and NO non-retroactive citizenship clause) has EVER been tested by SCOTUS.
Quite a mouthful, I know ... and it is as clear as mud ...
April Lexington wrote “Wanna bet? I’ll bet you an Obama coin (in full color, yet) that he is disqualified or forced to resign.”
I’d love to take that bet, but my conscience prevents me from stealing.
As I said before, Obama is the POTUS. Am I happy? NO!!! Do we have to deal with it? YES!! How? We wait for him to violate his Oath of Office, and act accordingly.
All this as an intellectual exercise is absolutely fascinating. I am thrilled that so many scenarios were dreamed up so long ago and prepared for. I love the minds of all the constitutional scholars, professional and amateur, here on FR figuring it all out.
But bottom line, would someone actually dare to run for President while not being qualified? Wouldn’t he know he would be found out at some point, and create some kind of crisis for the country? I suppose sheer hubris could lead someone to believe he would not be caught, but it could be filed under the slogan “Put America Last,” because if Barack Obama did just that, he would cause such upset among everyone, especially all of the people who are so happy now that he’s won the election.
I am troubled that the man would not at this point just release his birth certificate to stop all this talk and these lawsuits. I still think he is probably natural born, but there must be something on that certificate that he would rather we not see.
“It just seems too coincidental that he chooses a running partner from CA with the most electorates, is AA, and then files at the last minute.......Someone knows something and they have gotten Keyes involved......Don’t think he would have joined in if there wasn’t something to it.”
Interesting questions.....I guess I wasn’t paying attention, didn’t know Keyes filed so late.
This just keeps getting better and better. Maybe my prayers will be answered.
“The slate of electors could vote for whomever they wish.
Absolutely false. They have to pick from the top 3 remaining.....and the implication is the top 3 who actually received Electoral votes, but only McCain (other than Obama) actually won ellectoral votes. Therefore: McCain, with Biden as VP, would be the only possible outcome.”
You are correct, IMHO, but by a slightly different method:
There are 538 + 538 = 1076 possible elctors for the DEMS and GOP.
Obama/Biden is ahead at this point something like 350-188. 350 Obama/Biden electors, 188 McCain/Palin electors.
If Obama is DQ’d by SCOTUS, then HIS 350 electors would be DQ’d and replaced with McCain’s 350 electors.
Those 350 electors, along with McCain’s 188 original electors would presumably vote 538-0 for McCain.
Now, Biden IS qualified and (presumably) would make the case to SCOTUS that his election was valid. If so, the 350 original Obama/Biden electors would be able to vote for him and the vote for VP would be 350-188 for Biden.
Therfore, in an unusual twist, a total of 888 electoral voters would have voted.
538 McCain/Palin electors and 350 Obama/Biden electors (voting only in the kewpie prize category - that is, VP).
I am trying to see a downside to this scenario.
Although it would be a lot of fun for us to get to directly and decisively deal with the trash in the streets, the resulting heavy handed domestic police and military response against all citizens (including law abiding legal gun owning ones) would probably be a downside...
Kevin James on 870AM mentioned all the lawsuits this evening. He’s on from 9:00 PM to 11:00 PM M-F and they have online streaming.
I missed most of the show tonight but I did hear him take a call on the subject with one minute remaining. He let the caller speak about it for 30 sec, then he spent the last 30 sec on it.
He’s an ex Federal prosecutor and I think he’s interested.
SCOTUS has power to order FED Marshalls and FBI?
Wouldnt that have to come from the Executive Branch - Bush?
Not exactly sure - but someone’s gotta do it ... but I don’t want a minimum wage for-hire security firm to do it!
You are very bright.
Which David? and where would one contribute to this noble, the MOST noble patriotic cause?
“... am troubled that the man would not at this point just release his birth certificate to stop all this talk and these lawsuits. I still think he is probably natural born, but there must be something on that certificate that he would rather we not see.”
Well, either he is - or he isn’t eligible.
I would not have put so much time and research into this unless there was a basis for reasonable suspicion about his eligibility.
If he is found legit - good for him, he is our POTUS. If not - he has got to go.
As for his hubris - tough sh*t! No one forced him to run. You give up the luxury of privacy on your BC - even IF there is something embarassing on it.
If you wanna run with the BIG dawgs - you gotta learn to piss in the TALL grass ...
BTW: George Noury just mentioned the controversy on Coast To Coast AM - said he is monitoring, but not gonna cover it unless SCOTUS grants Cert. If they do, he’s gonna be on it like white on rice ...
It's the O-team's move.
Oaths of office are meaningless and empty when nobody even cares what the answer to this issue is, but rather it's viewed as a silly and obtuse waste of time.
Come to think of it, more and more Americans view the Constitution the same way: an obtuse waste of time.
I am glad you and others HAVE researched this. It is INSANE that any person running for the office of POTUS would not be thoroughly vetted as being qualified under the Constitution.
And Obama could have at any time released his BC, but chose not to, which certainly raises suspicion. Why not?
It could be something stupid, like his race listed as “white” (who knows what he looked like at 2 days old or if anyone saw his father in that hospital), or his father as “unknown.” But neither of those is terribly embarrassing, and could have been explained by an eloquent campaigner like Obama.
Or it could be something thoroughly embarrassing, and showing Obama to be duplicitous at the very least, like listing another man as the father. This would be something he would try to avoid us knowing.
The only other reason that I can think of is that indeed somehow the certificate is not legitimate or he was not born in the USA. I still find that hard to believe. Why would a teenaged pregnant girl leave the country to give birth?
It's their rheumy-eyed, uncomprehending, bovine stares that really get to me, though. If they happen to be chewing food at the moment they look over, the effect is total. "Sheeple" just might be too much of an insult, though.
Insulting to actual sheep, I mean.
But remember any riots that would take place would be quickly supressed.
But remember we have police swat teams and the ng to supress any trouble.
Well how about riots and protests if the Supremes don’t rule on the matter....it is possible to make it happen the other way too!
Yes, I believe Alan Keyes has slave blood running in his veins. Barack Hussein O., however has not one single drop of slave blood. He is 50% white (which he totally divorces himself from) 43.25% African (Kenyan) ARAB, and a paltry 6.75% African (Kenyan) black. To make matters worse, his Kenyan ancestors were SLAVE TRADERS, for crying out loud!
Advertising Weekly just chose his campaign as the most effective ad campaign of the year (or forever!). Americans are used to buying things on the basis of hype, and hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal donations can buy you a lot of hype.
Calero is a resident alien who was once deported after being caught selling drugs. He’s only here because he’s married to a citizen but has been denied citizenship.
When he’s not running for president, he’s out front at every big immigration raid screaming about illegal aliens rights being violated.
The fact that Calero can get his name on the ballot as a presidential candidate should be enough to make people wonder if there isn’t something about Obama that may not be on the up and up. Personally I prefer that we not have to take the democrats word for it.
Cat, perhaps you intended that response for nufsed?
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