If they did that they'd end up with Daewoo K2. About 95% of the lower receiver group is interchangeable with the M-16/AR-15 and uses a AK-47 style gas system and an FN-FAL style folding buttstock. In all, a very reliable and robust weapon.
Posted on 11/15/2008 8:29:49 AM PST by re_tail20
As the Army scales back on its M4 carbine buys, the service’s top official said Thursday it’s time to look for the next carbine soldiers will carry into battle.
Secretary of the Army Pete Geren’s comments set the tone for the small arms industry day that drew 19 companies from across the country to Washington, D.C., with the hope of replacing the service’s M4 carbine.
“Today is an important step in an effort to ensure that our soldiers always have the best,” Geren said. “Not just the best today, but the best tomorrow.”
The Army-sponsored event is the result of a “request for information” the service put out in August to assess what the U.S. small arms industry is capable of producing.
The Army purchased of the remaining balance of 473,000 M4s Wednesday, which will be delivered over the next two years, Geren said.
“That completes the Army acquisition objective for the M4,” Geren said, adding that the service would continue to buy the M4 in reduced quantities to maintain adequate replacements as needed.
The M4 is the Army’s primary individual weapon. For more than a year, it has been the subject of increased scrutiny by lawmakers on Capitol Hill concerned about whether soldiers have the best available weapon.
Geren said the goal of the event is to help the Army determine what is “achievable in terms of carbine technology.”
This is the first step toward a carbine competition the Army intends to open next year after Colt Defense LLC, the company that makes the M4, turns over the weapon’s technical data rights in June 2009. When that happens, the Army will have the opportunity to improve the M4 or buy a new carbine.
Geren has directed the Army to update its requirement for a carbine to reflect the current and future needs of soldiers.
The new requirement is scheduled to be completed by the end of the calendar year and approved by next summer, said Col. Doug Tamilio, Program Executive Office Soldier’s project manager for Soldier Weapons.
Provided that the new carbine requirement is approved and funding is available, the Army will issue a formal request for proposal for a new carbine to gun makers late next year, Tamilio said.
go back to the m-14
reconfigure the M4 to fire a 6.5mm grendal.
That's probably what will happen. We'll either get a new platform (more costly) or a modified M4 with a new caliber.
I say they need to look at the new 7.62 x 28 WSSSM (Win Super Super Short Mag) /s
>>go back to the m-14
I’m for the original - M1 Garand. That puppy would fire in all kinds of weather, take more abuse than a rented mule and was, according to General Patton, the best rifle ever made.
Some of my fellow Marines told me about smearing axle grease on the M1 to keep it firing in the Frozen Chosin.
They should just change the gas system. Replace the gas tube with a gas piston. That will keep it a lot cleaner and more reliable.
And while you're replacing M4 Uppers, replace the direct gas impingment system with a gas piston system ala HK416 and others.
The M14 is not practical for today's mounted urban environment, which is why the M4 has displaced the M16. Can you imagine egressing an MRAP with a 46.5 inch long M14?
The M14 is appropriate for Designated Marksman and SOCOM use as mission dictates, but not as a universal infantry weapon.
Looks like a small chance it might actually finally happen
I think that if the M-4 and the M-16 had undergone proper trials that they both would have been weeded out.
It’s their operating system. Propellant gas not only builds up in the receiver, making it more likely to jam, but gradually wears away the existent parts in the receiver. Heckler and Koch confirmed this in their own trials on the M4 when coming up with their HK 416, and this is something neither the Army’s Ordnance Corp did in the 1960’s or PEO Soldier has done
The operating system for every main assault rifle should be based around a gas piston. If you want to have rifles with direct impingement systems as well, they should be relegated to supporting roles.
I think 7.62mm is overkill in close quarters combat situation.
I COULDN’T AGREE MORE!!!
I see no problem with that.
Have you ever toted an M-14 for any distance/length of time?
I have extensive experience with the 14, onboard ships and boats. I think it is a very good rifle, but I would hate to have to carry that beast in the boonies. In addition to that, as a gunsmith/armorer the M16/4 platform is much easier to service in the field and at the repair level.
Of course I always know what he means, in this case that it must be manually recycled for each shot. Still someone should correct his misinformation before it gets on the show.
Also he comments about how lucky we were to select the M14 over the FAL. Sure, that is opinion but I think any really knowledgeable shooter would argue that the FAL was every bit the equal, and IMO better than the M14.
I don’t want to kill someone due to friendly fire.
By the time 0bama is through gutting the military they’ll probably be throwing rocks at the enemy.
In the upcoming Obama regime, the only equipment that the military will be need are many boxes of white flags.....
Neither do I, but if you think about it, it seems like a shabby reason to carry a light weapon into a CQB. Best just not to shoot the friendlies! After all, most people mistakenly shot by 5.56 are not doing too well either.
The new administration will probably replace these with BB guns.
I’ve heard people who’ve tried to stop bad guys with 5.56mm rounds at 25 meters have been known to change their minds about carrying the heavier weapons and mags.
Ever tote an M-1 around all day in 120 degree heat?
That is called a SAW.
Um...can I have one of the old M-4’s when they junk ‘em?
If they did that they'd end up with Daewoo K2. About 95% of the lower receiver group is interchangeable with the M-16/AR-15 and uses a AK-47 style gas system and an FN-FAL style folding buttstock. In all, a very reliable and robust weapon.
Many in the Army have tried to find a better rifle only to have the Army brass stomp on such efforts. Now we have this idiot come forward as though it is his big idea. He’s probably one of those that prevented such efforts.
“In the upcoming Obama regime, the only equipment that the military will be need are many boxes of white flags.....”
Not true! They’ll be conducting operations all over the U.S.
Something else no one ever wants to talk about is the 5.56 ammo itself. When Armalite (Gene Stoner) designed the system, the powder used was IMR type. The Army went to Ball powder AND THEN THE PROBLEMS STARTED. It’s my impression they are still using ball powder today.
I picked up a POF-USA 415 (gas piston system) a couple of years ago. I can be a bit more abusive to it than my Colt H-Bar. You really notice the difference when you pull the bolt to clean it. Since it’s not eating and s*itting in the same place, there is a whole lot less carbon and crap to get out.
Full auto, yes. Belt fed? No. The M1918 BAR is fed with a 20 round box magazine, and at one time had a 40 round box magazine.
The BAR has never been belt fed. I think you're confusing it with the Browning Model 1917 .30 cal machine gun, which was belt fed.
Something else no one ever wants to talk about is the 5.56 ammo itself. When Armalite (Gene Stoner) designed the system, the powder used was IMR type. The Army went to Ball powder AND THEN THE PROBLEMS STARTED. It’s my impression they are still using ball powder today.
I picked up a POF-USA 415 (gas piston system) a couple of years ago. I can be a bit more abusive to it than my Colt H-Bar. You really notice the difference when you pull the bolt to clean it. Since it’s not eating and s*itting in the same place, there is a whole lot less carbon and crap to get out.
Put .308 uppers on them and be done with it.
Saves money and addresses the need for more knockdown power.
In R. Lee Ermey’s special last night, he offered this defense for the 5.56 mm
When you shoot someone with a 7.62 mm, you kill him and just take one guy out.
When you shoot someone with a 5.56 mm, you wound him and take three guys out, the guy wounded, the medic treating him, and the guy who has to carry him off the battlefield
Sort of an academic exercise, and reminiscent of the horrible “body count” approach that was woefully used in Vietnam (thanks to McNamara and his Whiz Kids), but somewhat interesting
I think a mid size cartridge like the 6.5 or 6.8 would be good for the new carbine
Can't. The 7.62x51 cartridge is too long to fit through the M4 lower. The 6.5 Grendel (and other cartridges) can use the same size magazine as the 5.56, so the lower can be re-used.
I do believe, however, that the 7.62x39 can be used through the M4 lower, but I'm not positive.
LOL!
I have had exactly the same experience. I have expended many many thousands of rounds of 5.56 into various targets and was never impressed by it. Wasn’t too impressed by the M16 at all even though I currently own an M4 that has never been fired.
I said this very thing on FR about four years ago and took a few flames for my troubles. My point was that some of the after action reports I’d seen indiacted the troops wanted a heavier round on hte order of 7.62. Low and behold, the Army started putting scoped M-14s in each squad in the hands of a ‘designated marksman’.
Semper Fi,
Only 1 BB at a time, so they’re not “assault weapons”.
Our main battle rifle should be chambered for the 7.62x51, with the 5.56x45 reserved for specialized applications (the reverse of today).
No, I think he chopped them up. Not very bright. The Army and Marines sure could use those old chopped up M-14s. The count was close to a million.
You forgot strap holders so you can drag the thaang! LOL
Yu can not buy and M-14 at the local armory. It is my understanding that the Marines are using them in Afganistan.
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