Skip to comments.Looking Beyond the M4 Carbine
Posted on 11/15/2008 8:29:49 AM PST by re_tail20
As the Army scales back on its M4 carbine buys, the services top official said Thursday its time to look for the next carbine soldiers will carry into battle.
Secretary of the Army Pete Gerens comments set the tone for the small arms industry day that drew 19 companies from across the country to Washington, D.C., with the hope of replacing the services M4 carbine.
Today is an important step in an effort to ensure that our soldiers always have the best, Geren said. Not just the best today, but the best tomorrow.
The Army-sponsored event is the result of a request for information the service put out in August to assess what the U.S. small arms industry is capable of producing.
The Army purchased of the remaining balance of 473,000 M4s Wednesday, which will be delivered over the next two years, Geren said.
That completes the Army acquisition objective for the M4, Geren said, adding that the service would continue to buy the M4 in reduced quantities to maintain adequate replacements as needed.
The M4 is the Armys primary individual weapon. For more than a year, it has been the subject of increased scrutiny by lawmakers on Capitol Hill concerned about whether soldiers have the best available weapon.
Geren said the goal of the event is to help the Army determine what is achievable in terms of carbine technology.
This is the first step toward a carbine competition the Army intends to open next year after Colt Defense LLC, the company that makes the M4, turns over the weapons technical data rights in June 2009. When that happens, the Army will have the opportunity to improve the M4 or buy a new carbine.
Geren has directed the Army to update its requirement for a carbine to reflect the current and future needs of soldiers.
The new requirement is scheduled to be completed by the end of the calendar year and approved by next summer, said Col. Doug Tamilio, Program Executive Office Soldiers project manager for Soldier Weapons.
Provided that the new carbine requirement is approved and funding is available, the Army will issue a formal request for proposal for a new carbine to gun makers late next year, Tamilio said.
I have had exactly the same experience. I have expended many many thousands of rounds of 5.56 into various targets and was never impressed by it. Wasn’t too impressed by the M16 at all even though I currently own an M4 that has never been fired.
I said this very thing on FR about four years ago and took a few flames for my troubles. My point was that some of the after action reports I’d seen indiacted the troops wanted a heavier round on hte order of 7.62. Low and behold, the Army started putting scoped M-14s in each squad in the hands of a ‘designated marksman’.
Only 1 BB at a time, so they’re not “assault weapons”.
Our main battle rifle should be chambered for the 7.62x51, with the 5.56x45 reserved for specialized applications (the reverse of today).
No, I think he chopped them up. Not very bright. The Army and Marines sure could use those old chopped up M-14s. The count was close to a million.
You forgot strap holders so you can drag the thaang! LOL
Yu can not buy and M-14 at the local armory. It is my understanding that the Marines are using them in Afganistan.
Something you guys aren't talking about.
The 5.56 will not reliably shoot through a block wall. A 7.62x39 and of course the 7.62x51 will. Most folks are behind cover during a fire fight of the military type vs TV.
Same goes for car windows, etc. (I am not saying the little slug won't shoot through windshield glass, just in which direction it will be going after it gets through is the question)
I would love the little AR15 w/gas piston and in 6.5mm. Just way to much money for me. I'll keep my AK's and bolt guns.
I stocked up on Wolf and surplus for both back 6 or 7 years ago;-)
Thats what I’ve been saying all along.
I see now that someone has come out with an ar variant that has a gas piston. (Can’t remember the model)
I’m still waiting for someone to come out with a conversion kit.
Of course, if I get into ar’s before someone makes a conversion kit, I just might...
The Magpul Masada now called the Bushmaster ACR is a great design along with the FN SCAR. 6.5mm cartridges have all the benefits of the 7.62 NATO plus have less recoil, use less powder and metal, and more can be carried. I like the specs of the 6.5X47 Lapua, it looks like it would more reliably feed at full auto than the Grendel.
Archy a while back posted an article on an experimental 6.25mm round the Brits looked at. The results were very interesting and that was before the modern powders we have now.
The HK 416 is just a repackaged Stoner AR-18 gas system with a ridiculous price tag, and slick marketing. HK thinks civilians suck and they hate them.
If there ever is a replacement for the M-16/M-4 I really hope the military adopts a new cartridge. The adoption of the 5.56 was a bad decision and should have been changed a long time ago.
I recall reading that under Clinton they chopped up a bunch of brand new, never issued Winchester Model 52 target rifles too. This was at Anniston, Alabama. Almost made me cry.
Can’t agree more. Good old short stroke gas system won’t gum up the works. Same ergonomics. I need one.
Caseless ammo was pretty much shelved a number of years ago; not because of any technical issue (they had actually worked the bugs out) but because of lack of interest from militaries after the end of the Cold War.
Except the muzzies don’t bother to treat and evac.
Better to just kill them so they don’t wind up in a US court.
Thanks - your observations mirror my own hunting experiences. Now since you’ve been there and done that, do you have any feelings about the efficacy of FMJ ammo in .45 and 9mm? I’ve got a lot of both, and a relatively small amount of (much more expensive) JHPs. Should I stock up on personal defense ammo and just expend the rest on targets and not plan on using them in case the SHTF? Thanks again.