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To: 2banana

As an agnostic, I have to agree with the writer.

Republicans needs to stop being the party of the conservative religious right, and start looking to include those who do not hold the same religious views. .. or for that matter, no religious views at all.

I don’t need to be a southern Baptist to believe in limited government. I don’t need a bible to tell me abortion is wrong. I don’t need Sunday school to know that a strong military is what we need to fight Islamic fascism. And I don’t need prayer groups to see that socialism is state sponsored slavery.


40 posted on 11/18/2008 8:10:01 PM PST by MeanGreen2008
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To: MeanGreen2008
Republicans needs to stop being the party of the conservative religious right, ******************************

MG2008, you are what you are- I'm not asking. But, please, respectfully, explain to me what the GOP did this year that evinces it is the party of "the conservative religious right"?

I have a strong faith, but if the GOP was trying to appeal to me on that basis this year, I missed it. Honestly, please explain how that manifested itself. Thanks

45 posted on 11/18/2008 8:19:03 PM PST by Wegotsarah.com (WE WIN- WE HAVE SARAH, AND THEY DON'T!)
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To: MeanGreen2008
and start looking to include those who do not hold the same religious views. .. or for that matter, no religious views at all.

I don’t need to be a southern Baptist to believe in limited government. I don’t need a bible to tell me abortion is wrong.

Who gets to define what is good, moral, charitable, evil, etc.? You? Me? MTV? A Saddam? A Stalin?

To ancient Aztecs - cutting out the still beating heart of a human sacrifices (including children) was the highest order of good.

To a large percent of Muslims - killing, raping and enslaving infidels is the highest order of good in Islam.

To Hindus - Attacking, ignoring, prejudicing against and letting die for people in lower order castes is perfectly alright.

To certain Pacific Tribes - eating your enemy was the highest form of good.

And I could go on for pages...

The actions you mentioned are good works from a Christian viewpoint:

Matthew 22:37-40 -- Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." And Jesus also said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." (Luke 6:31; Luke 10:27 (affirming of Moses) and Matthew 7:12)

But by no means has this "philosophy" been accepted the world over as "good or moral." Not by a long shot.

What makes murder inherently wrong (to Christians) is not that it feels wrong, but that a transcendent Creator to whom we are answerable commands: "Thou shalt not murder." What makes kindness to others inherently right (to Christians) is not that human reason says so, but that God does: "Love thy neighbor as thyself; I am the Lord."

What is "good or evil" without God? Without any footing for moral actions - anything can be rationalized as good or evil. You can just make it up as you go along. Good actions can be whatever society thinks it is with the popular culture at the time. If that be in Nazi Germany or Pol Pot's Cambodia or North Korea - that means doing "good" is slaughtering millions of people and sending millions more into misery. But, by their own human standards at the time in history, they were all doing good.

You and I grew up and live in a country founded in Judeo-Christian values, so it may seem obvious to you what is "good." But that is due to the Judeo-Christian influences on you (even if you don't believe in God or have never been in a Church). To others without that kind of influence, doing "good" can be radically different.

46 posted on 11/18/2008 8:20:24 PM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: MeanGreen2008

It would be hoped that more people would see those things; it’s sad that it can’t be so.


47 posted on 11/18/2008 8:23:05 PM PST by eclecticEel (men who believe deeply in something, even wrong, usually triumph over men who believe in nothing)
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To: MeanGreen2008
I don’t need to be a southern Baptist to believe in limited government. I don’t need a bible to tell me abortion is wrong. I don’t need Sunday school to know that a strong military is what we need to fight Islamic fascism. And I don’t need prayer groups to see that socialism is state sponsored slavery.

Well said.

49 posted on 11/18/2008 8:23:56 PM PST by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: MeanGreen2008

Excellent post. You have it exactly right.


55 posted on 11/18/2008 8:49:17 PM PST by lieutenant columbo
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To: MeanGreen2008
I don’t need to be a southern Baptist to believe in limited government. I don’t need a bible to tell me abortion is wrong. I don’t need Sunday school to know that a strong military is what we need to fight Islamic fascism. And I don’t need prayer groups to see that socialism is state sponsored slavery.

Fine. So how does the presence of overtly religious folks in the GOP harm you?

Not cool enough?

73 posted on 11/18/2008 9:31:17 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: MeanGreen2008
Republicans needs to stop being the party of the conservative religious right, and start looking to include those who do not hold the same religious views. .. or for that matter, no religious views at all.

Can you name one part of a McCain stump speech (or a Bush speech, for that matter) that told atheists and, say, Buddhists they aren't welcome in the GOP?

I don’t need to be a southern Baptist to believe in limited government.

Then why do you hear "only Southern Baptists welcome" when the GOP talks about limited government?

I don’t need a bible to tell me abortion is wrong.

Then why do you hear "thus saith the Lord, so screw off, agnostics" when the GOP stands by an abortion plank that does not mention the Bible or even God?

I don’t need Sunday school to know that a strong military is what we need to fight Islamic fascism.

So why do you hear a Sunday school lesson when the GOP talks about a strong military?

And I don’t need prayer groups to see that socialism is state sponsored slavery.

So why do you see the party that stands for all those concepts as a religious party? When did we ever say you weren't welcome? And why would giving the finger to the evangelicals (as Parker proposes) be any wiser than giving the finger to non-Christians?

Seems to me you're projecting.

79 posted on 11/18/2008 10:17:44 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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