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To: MeanGreen2008
and start looking to include those who do not hold the same religious views. .. or for that matter, no religious views at all.

I don’t need to be a southern Baptist to believe in limited government. I don’t need a bible to tell me abortion is wrong.

Who gets to define what is good, moral, charitable, evil, etc.? You? Me? MTV? A Saddam? A Stalin?

To ancient Aztecs - cutting out the still beating heart of a human sacrifices (including children) was the highest order of good.

To a large percent of Muslims - killing, raping and enslaving infidels is the highest order of good in Islam.

To Hindus - Attacking, ignoring, prejudicing against and letting die for people in lower order castes is perfectly alright.

To certain Pacific Tribes - eating your enemy was the highest form of good.

And I could go on for pages...

The actions you mentioned are good works from a Christian viewpoint:

Matthew 22:37-40 -- Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." And Jesus also said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." (Luke 6:31; Luke 10:27 (affirming of Moses) and Matthew 7:12)

But by no means has this "philosophy" been accepted the world over as "good or moral." Not by a long shot.

What makes murder inherently wrong (to Christians) is not that it feels wrong, but that a transcendent Creator to whom we are answerable commands: "Thou shalt not murder." What makes kindness to others inherently right (to Christians) is not that human reason says so, but that God does: "Love thy neighbor as thyself; I am the Lord."

What is "good or evil" without God? Without any footing for moral actions - anything can be rationalized as good or evil. You can just make it up as you go along. Good actions can be whatever society thinks it is with the popular culture at the time. If that be in Nazi Germany or Pol Pot's Cambodia or North Korea - that means doing "good" is slaughtering millions of people and sending millions more into misery. But, by their own human standards at the time in history, they were all doing good.

You and I grew up and live in a country founded in Judeo-Christian values, so it may seem obvious to you what is "good." But that is due to the Judeo-Christian influences on you (even if you don't believe in God or have never been in a Church). To others without that kind of influence, doing "good" can be radically different.

46 posted on 11/18/2008 8:20:24 PM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: 2banana
Well, you've just proven that citing religion as proof that such-and-such is right or wrong is useless -- the first religion you cited says that human sacrifice is right, the next one says that tyrannical conquest is right, the one after that says that allowing people to starve in the street is right, and so on.

Clearly, one must ultimately depend on an standard of right and wrong that is not dependent on a specific religion.

93 posted on 11/19/2008 6:20:07 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent design is to evolutionary biology what socialism is to free-market economics.)
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To: 2banana
To a large percent of Muslims - killing, raping and enslaving infidels is the highest order of good in Islam.

Wrong.

116 posted on 11/20/2008 2:56:45 PM PST by MeanGreen2008
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