"I pick and choose".
Nice cross.
Posted on 11/20/2008 5:21:26 AM PST by jmaroneps37
America’s Catholic Bishops are making their voices heard on abortion. Seeing 52% of Catholics vote for Barack Obama, has shocked them into action.
They are taking their fight directly to Catholic politicians who support and promote the destruction of innocent babies. The Bishops are starting at the top and sparing no one. They have publicly vowed to confront President elect Obama and his putatively Roman Catholic Vice President elect Joseph Biden on the issue of abortion. They are also warning all Catholics that supporting abortion is a sin.
This is a new and encouraging development. In the past, the bishops only talked a good game about abortion, now they’re backing up their words with meaningful actions. Close to sixty Catholic Bishops intend to withhold Holy Communion from Catholic politicians in their diocese who support and promote abortion. Some have extended this policy to individual Catholics as well.
This is a serious challenge to Catholic politicians. Many will be forced to answer the question of what religion they practice: Catholicism or Democratism.
This campaign’s lack of media references to Biden being a Catholic might be an indication it’s getting the message: Abortion supporting Catholic Democrats will no longer get a pass from their Church on their positions.
Those calling themselves adherent Catholics will be tested as well.
Unless the Democrats start running Catholics who defend life, eventually the Bishops will start instructing Catholics not to support them at the risk of committing a mortal sin.
The Bishops are also talking about closing Catholic hospitals rather than knuckle under to Blue State demands to do abortions or lose funding.
Standing on principles has worked for the Church in the past. It will work again. Big changes are coming to the American Catholic Church.
Welcome to the fight Catholic Bishops; we need you.
(Excerpt) Read more at :www.collinsreport.net ...
With 60% of Catholics voting for baby-killing Democrats, the bishops have failed at their job of teaching Christian values to their members. The politicians they are belatedly complaining about wouldn’t be in office if Catholic voters didn’t put them there.
There will be NO split in the Church. There will be those who ARE Catholic and those who chose NOT to be. Maybe those who do not follow what the Church teaches will finally get out...(and we can can only pray for them).
Non-apostate Catholics and Episcopals must split from their apostates ASAP.
BUMP
Is church discipline gone?
Really more of a schism as there is denial out there that the bishops even have the "right" to teach what is true Catholic dogma. I hate to say it, but it's already happened. Many people are just ignoring the shepards when they hear something they don't want to hear.
Hard to imagine the past behavior of some priests, along with the apparent lack of screening and forceful removal of those who were degenerate, had nothing to do with this current situation.
Due to the unthinking acceptance of religious relativism, discipline is no longer exercised in parts of the Church. This IS changing and GOOD, sound teaching and discipline, as well as encouragement on the path to holiness is returning in many other parts of the Church. I pray daily for the administration of our diocese (as do many others) that those who are not anointed and appointed by God will be removed and those who ARE anointed and appointed by HIM will replace them.
Those who vote for politicians who support abortion are not true Catholics.
I agree with you, but it’s incumbent upon Catholics to stand up for what’s right - not what’s easiest or most popular. As a Catholic, I hope our bishops will educate their parishioners of why abortion is wrong, along with any enforcement measures they deem necessary.
Most abortion rights supporters are informed only to the extent that they think abortion is nothing more than a matter of “choice”. Society has done a good job in shaping that misconception. The case for abortion is fundamental weak, and is easily defeatible with basic logic. It’s just a matter of getting that information out to the Church and the public, in general. That will be the easy part.
The harder part will be their acceptance of it and allowing themselves to change their hearts. I’ve had many discussions with abortion advocates, and all of them usually don’t end well - not because they turn into shouting matches but because they don’t have any answers for the questions I ask them. They get frustrated and therefore angry, but seldom does it actually cause them to reconsider their position. Alarmingly, they often switch the subject to other social issues, of which they think the Democratic agenda adds up to a greater good for all. Like I said, the pro-abortion position is difficult one to defend.
I hope this article is true. I realize we’ll lose some people who want their abortions and Catholic Eucharist too, but I think this is a necessary step for the good of the church.
Gee, if they had done this before the election think it might have had an effect on the outcome?? Just wondering...
“Is church discipline gone?”
Where is Tomas de Torquemada (could be the ‘torque’ in ‘garrote’, maybe) when you need him?
As the title says, they are Democrats.
This situation could lead to a split of the Roman Catholic Church in America.
Been there, done that. It is called Protestantism, much of which is moral jello.
"I pick and choose".
Nice cross.
I'm not Catholic, but it seems that history may be repeating itself (you know, Henry VIII and the Church of England). The Catholic Church will survive getting rid of its dead weight.
As a matter of fact I was in Scotland last year on my honeymoon and attended church in Glasgow. Attendance is way down and young people were nowhere in sight. In our tour of the countryside, a lot of former churches have been converted into other uses....one was a souvenir shop, etc.
There is a church called the “American Catholic Church”. My understanding is it it very similar to the “Roman Catholic Church” with one exception being they allow their priests to marry.
What difference does it make on what they say when almost all of the staff at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) are flaming liberals, one of whom, the Director of the Campaign for Human Development, gave millions to ACORN to help them get out the vote for pro-abortion Democrats.
Don’t hold your breath until you see any the Cardinals or Bishops confront any ot the Catholic Politicians Head On.
The retired Archbishop Donohue of Atlanta was the only Bishop that attacked a Catholic Politician, Congressman John Lewis head on.
Several years ago at the annual Martin Luther King Mass, Upon learning about Congressman John Lewis’s Pro abortion voting record, Archbishop Donohue refused to let Congressman Lewis speak at the Mass despite pressure from the Community. This is what I call Bishops’ with conviction.
Well said. Those who refuse to submit to the Godly authority of the Catholic Church can certainly find many (not all) Protestant churches who won't even mention the Democrats' satanic ritual of abortion. The United Methodists come to mind.
Not a peep out of our priests here in the boonies of PA. They let you know they’re anti-war, but they don’t want to bring up abortion. Might hurt attendance, I guess.
You are either a Catholic and follow the rules of the Church or you are not a Catholic.
“Bout time the “Bishops” got some courage.
These “Faux” bishops are not Shepards of Christ’s Church and haven’t been so for many decades.
They are much more interested in their own station and in the excesses of the world.
Too many bishops and "Catholic" education leaders worship Karl Marx and practice the religion of Liberation Theology and Social Justice.
So?....Is it any wonder that 45% of Mass attending Catholics were confused and voted for Obama? If a candidate comes along whose campaign rhetoric preaches Marxist Social Justice why shouldn't they think he is god on earth?
The Catholic Church has been pushing the Democrat line for Years and years.
“It’s not hard to envision a whole new “American Catholic Church” that would allow all the things Abortion/gay marriage supporting Democrats to fool themselves into thinking they are moral beings.”
I can think of certain places where this has already happened. They just haven’t made it official yet.
Maybe in a few years certain churches will have to change their front door signs to “American Catholic Church”
Problems don't get solved by ignoring reality. The Bishops did come out in very strong language and told their parishioners that voting for a pro abortion candidate would be morally grave. 52% of those in their church didn't care what they said.
***Alarmingly, they often switch the subject to other social issues, of which they think the Democratic agenda adds up to a greater good for all.****
Typical leftist way of avoiding the main point of a discussion. The only way to keep it from happening, is to say you’ll be glad to discuss the NEW point, but let’s settle the FIRST point first.
A priest at one of our local Catholic churchs wrote in his blog that if any of his parishioners voted for Obama they should do penitence prior to receiving communion due to Obama’s stand on abortion. The state bishop (no district bishop here right now) did not stand behind him!! This is why the church is so ignored. They have no back bone and due to their own internal issues, they are afraid to call anyone out!
Of course, other churches are no better...so many are more worried about what goes in the collection plate and not offending anyone they have lost souls!
..........supporting abortion is sin. (I quote).
True, the Bible says:
“A high look, and a proud heart is sin, and the plowing of the wicked is sin. (Proverbs 21:4)
“The thought of foolishness is sin......”(Proverbs 24:9)
“.......for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Romans 14:23)
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not , to him it is sin.” (James 4:17)
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the trangression of the law.” (1 John 3:4)
All unrighteousness is sin.......” (1 John 5:17)
“For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
“Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” (James 1:15)(the Bible LSD = Lust Sin & Death)
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
OUR ONLY HOPE AS SINNERS:
“But God commended His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
“For He (God) hath made Him (Jesus) to be sin for us,who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.”(2 Corinthians 5:21)
“Let everything that hath breath the LORD! Praise ye the LORD!” (Psalm 150:6)
The problem doesn't lie with this current crop of Bishops. It's a problem of poor catechetics over the last 40 years. Starting with CCD when I was in high school, teaching of the Faith has been watered down over the years, as feminists and liberals got hold of the staffs of companies that create the materials. In the 80's, the 'Seamless Garment' idea was pushed by those same folks, so too many Catholics have no firm idea of what it means to be a Catholic.
Unfortunately, too many Catholics heard the Bishops, but ignored them, because they believed that the economic downturn was caused by the Republicans, since Bush is President. They wanted 'change', thinking that Obama was going to 'turn things around'. Yeah, well, they're gonna get change, but I don't think they're going to like it too much.
All that being said, I'm glad these new Bishops are taking the Faith seriously, and are not as wedded to the Democrat party as their predecessors were.
Old news. In case you haven't been paying attention, the vast majority of the abuse took place over 20 years ago, and those priests HAVE been dealt with, either by the legal authorities, or in cases where the Statute of Limitations ran out, by the Church itself. This new group of Bishops has no tolerance for the pervs, and have been working to change Seminaries, wresting them from the liberals who had been running them for years.
There might have been some backlash for that situation in this election, but I don't think it was that much. I believe it was 'genetic Democrats', who hadn't had someone in the past few elections who excited them enough to bring them back to the Party, and Obama was that person. As I mentioned in a previous post, some Catholics I've talked to who voted for Obama did so because of the economy. I'm not even sure they knew what his stance on abortion actually was. All they saw was 'change', and they believed the Republicans caused the economic crisis, not the Democrats.
That's precisely what pro-abortion 'Catholics' have done for years, and what Doug Kmiec did for Obama this year. Some Catholics want to vote for the Democrats because of 'social justice' issues, so they fool themselves into thinking that those issues outweigh abortion in the grand scheme of things. The NCCB's "Faithful Citizenship" letter only served to confuse the matter, because the pro-abortion Catholics jumped all over that to justify their position.
It's not hard to envision a whole new "American Catholic Church" that would allow all the things Abortion/gay marriage supporting Democrats to fool themselves into thinking they are moral beings.
With Maria Shriver proudly announcing she's a 'cafeteria' Catholic, as though that is somehow the 'intelligent' choice, a split might just be inevitable. Propping up other Catholics (seeming, to them) dissent, Cinos like Pelosi and Biden, as though it were a 'good' thing.
for later
I don't think they thought Obama would win. They hoped that they could remain silent or impartial AND that it would all turn out all right. It didn't, and now they panic. This is why I have no use for the Church as an institution. People look to their priests and bishops for guidance, and all they get is pious platitudes and ambiguous double speak worthy of a politician. My mother's priest held an all night vigil, but he offered no help in choosing the best candidate. He said nothing about Obama's outrageous votes on BAIPA or his extreme pro-abortion views. She voted for Obama.
Mine actually has a Corpus.
The Kennedys are an embarrassment.
In my parish, we had two sex offenders on either side of an alcoholic who was laicized because he wouldn't admit he had a problem. It was disgusting, yes, but there was no question of putting trust in men before the Faith. I eventually left that parish in search of true Catholic teaching. I found it and a spiritual home in a parish that thrives on tradition. It's there. You just have to look for it and not let men get in the way.
A friend and I were talking the other night and she was practically in tears of joy over her six year old learning to say the Rosary CORRECTLY (and doing it in the privacy of her room, too, without prompting) and being taken into Church and taught what everything is and what it's there for. My friend and I both suffered from being educated in the 70's and 80's and are both trying to catch up in knowledge. To know that proper Cathechesis is happening at least somewhere is comforting.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
More precisely: There will be those who ARE Catholic, and thereby choose to follow Christ, and those who choose NOT to be and reject Christ, as there has always been.
If you are Catholic, but don't subscribe to the rules that make you so, are you really? Haven't you already spun off?
One of my professors in college was a Catholic priest. He was likely my most interesting teacher. He taught thoelogy and philosophy. Great Caesar's Ghost!!! He and I had some fun discussions in the four classes he taught that I took.
He said it was indeed true that no one could "prove" when life began or when God "chose" to "call" it life. That is from the standpoint of "philosophy" and "politics." He said, since our robed killers didn't know when life began, why not err on the side of not taking a chance.
I don't see how anyone can argue in favor of abortion. I don't care when life begins. Late term abortions and partial birth abortions are premeditated murder.
Clowns like Biden, who claim to be Catholic, should be groin kicked into the middle of next week. Then they should be shunned.
Those who pick and choose have already split off from the faith. The Bishops need to make this visible.
I ended up taking the preparation for both First Penance and First Communion for our daughter into my own hands. I wanted her to receive First Penance BEFORE First Communion, in accordance with Church teaching, but the (now ex) nun in charge of the program wouldn't let 2nd graders in the First Penance program. I gathered several friends who wanted the same, we prepared a program, and I went to the Pastor and told him what we were going to do. He asked me if I had asked Sister Jane, and I told him "No, I'm TELLING you what we're going to do." He just laughed and said, OK. So, I made sure she and the other kids were prepared, but when it came time for First Communion, the nun wouldn't let her be in the First Communion group for the Parish. She ended up making the Sacrament, by herself, on Easter Sunday, which was wonderful.
When it came time for our youngest son to make his Sacraments, there was a larger group of us, and we forced the issue by having the father of one of our kids teach that group of 2nd graders. They were able to make their First Communion with the larger group, and they were very well prepared.
Fine. Let it split. We don’t need the CINOs. The pope has made it quite clear he envisions a smaller but more vibrant Church.
I don't know how anyone could justify not having Penance before First Communion. That just defies too many teachings to count.
There are a number of priests out there who do make accommodations when the "nuns" won't. One of my brothers went to a private Catholic school for 7th and 8th. Our parish didn't offer PSR, so as there were three kids my brother's age who were all in the same boat, the pastor (who is now an archbishop) prepared them for Confirmation himself and they were all confirmed at the Cathedral in the general Confirmation.
There's so many things wrong with the exclusions - and the priests who allow them to happen - it's not even funny. I hope that gets straightened out as the next generation of priests become pastors.
I truly think that the older priests, those in their mid 60’s to late 70’s were in the group that was mau-maued by the feminist nuns, and in order to not appear to ‘paternalistic’, or ‘patriarchal’, allowed themselve to be cowed by them. It’s a major reason, in my opinion, that the following generation of priests was educated improperly, because of the liberals and feminists who had worked themselves into positions of authority in the Seminaries, in order to have their own ideas be what those priests were sent out into the world to spread. We saw the fruit of that in the priests who molested children, and those who left the priesthood, because there were not, in fact, prepared for that life.
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