Catholic Church Warns Obama of War between administration and Church

Catholic News ^ | 11/19/08 | By John-Henry Westen

[mgist]

Wednesday November 19, 2008

 

 

By John-Henry Westen
 
WASHINGTON, November 19, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The possible signing of the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) by President-Elect Barack Obama would be "the equivalent of a war" an unnamed senior Vatican official recently told TIME magazine. 

The startling comments make the second time this week that a Vatican official has forthrightly and in the strongest language condemned Obama's extreme policies on abortion.   Speaking at the Catholic University of America a few days ago, Vatican Cardinal James Stafford labeled Obama's anti-life policies as "aggressive, disruptive, and apocalyptic," also noting that, "On November 4, 2008, America suffered a cultural earthquake" (see coverage: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111703.html ).
 
With Catholic, but outspokenly pro-abortion individuals occupying two prominent positions (Joseph Biden as vice president and Tom Daschle as Health and Human Services Secretary) the specter of public excommunication or denial of communion for prominent members of the Obama Administration has arisen. 
 
The focus of the Vatican’s concern, FOCA, is a bill that would do away with state laws on abortion, including laws mandating parental involvement, or banning partial birth abortion. FOCA would also compel taxpayer funding of abortions, and, of greatest concern to Bishops, would force faith-based hospitals and healthcare facilities to perform abortions.

Obama has in the past said that he would make signing FOCA one of the highest priorities of his presidency.
 
Last week at the meeting of US Bishops in Baltimore, Cybercast News Service asked Chicago Cardinal Francis George, the current president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, if voting for FOCA would bring a penalty of automatic excommunication for Catholic politicians. The Cardinal did not rule it out.
 
"The excommunication is automatic if that act is in fact formal cooperation, and that is precisely what would have to be discussed once you would see the terms of the act itself," responded Cardinal George. When asked for more, he added: "The categories in moral theology about cooperating in evil, which make you complicit in the evil even though you don't do it yourself, are material cooperation, which is usually remote and therefore doesn't involve you in the moral action except in a very auxiliary and minor way, and formal cooperation, which would involve you even though you are not doing it, in the way that makes you culpable.

"So we would have to take a look at each case, and at each law, to determine whether or not the cooperation is material or formal. We've never done that."
 
Cardinal George has, however, personally analyzed FOCA and expressed his grave concerns about the legislation.  In a message to the Obama Administration at the end of the USCCB meeting George wrote on FOCA, saying it would, "outlaw any ‘interference’ in providing abortion at will. It would deprive the American people in all fifty states of the freedom they now have to enact modest restraints and regulations on the abortion industry. FOCA would coerce all Americans into subsidizing and promoting abortion with their tax dollars. It would counteract any and all sincere efforts by government and others of good will to reduce the number of abortions in our country."
 
The Cardinal added: "FOCA would have an equally destructive effect on the freedom of conscience of doctors, nurses and health care workers whose personal convictions do not permit them to cooperate in the private killing of unborn children. It would threaten Catholic health care institutions and Catholic Charities." (see coverage: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111209.html )
 
In light of this possible attempt to revoke conscience rights under the Obama administration, Catholic League president Bill Donohue has urged President Bush to enact regulations, already in draft for months, which would protect the rights of doctors, nurses and health workers from being discriminated against if they refuse to perform or assist in abortions, as well as other morally contentious procedures. "At stake are the religious rights of these professionals," said Donohue.
 
"To put it differently, were FOCA to become law (it needs to be reintroduced in the House), the culture war that the Vatican official was referring to would come to a boiling point," he warned.  "In practical terms, this would mean the closure of every Catholic hospital in the nation: No bishop is going to stand by and allow the federal government to dictate what medical procedures must be performed in Catholic hospitals. Make no mistake about it, the bishops would shut down Catholic hospitals before acquiescing in the intentional killing of an innocent child. Were this to happen, it would not only cripple the poor, it would cripple the Obama administration."
 
Donohue concluded: "It is for reasons like these that the Catholic League urges President Bush to move with dispatch in instituting rules protecting the religious rights of all health care workers. If Obama wants to undo them, it will set up a confrontation he will surely regret."
 
See the TIME article:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1859856,00.htm...
 
See the Cybercast News article:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14369

[mgist]

It doesn't cease to amaze me that over 1,800 black babies are tortured, maimed, and killed, a day, and the media is silent.

The Democrats golden goose, Planned Parenthood, was founded by real racists trying to create “cleaner race”. 48,000,000 killed souls since Roe v. Wade and the media says nothing.

http://www.blackgenocide.org

[massgopguy]

I have a bad feeling about this adminstration’s DOJ in regards to the Knights of Columbus. I see the term “Hate Group” showing up on Lefty Blogs.

[teletech]

I applaude the Catholic Church for speaking out on abortion and Obama. I would hope all Protestant Churches start doing the same.

[SevenofNine]

OH Monk and wagglebee check this outtttt

[Frantzie]

50+% of Catholics voted for O and the Church has financially supported ACORN. Note I am not bashing the Church but I am enraged that parishoners money went to ACORN & marxism. Obama will go after the Knights of Columbus as a hate group.

[icwhatudo]

7 million for ACORN? Maybe the church should have stopped trying to get Obama elected....

[MrB]

I’m glad that the RCC sees FoCA for the intrinsic evil that it is.

It’s not about “guaranteeing rights” - it’s about killing as many babies as possible. There is no other reason to defund crisis pregnancy (abortion alternative) centers.

[LearsFool]

"The excommunication is automatic if that act is in fact formal cooperation, and that is precisely what would have to be discussed once you would see the terms of the act itself," responded Cardinal George. When asked for more, he added: "The categories in moral theology about cooperating in evil, which make you complicit in the evil even though you don't do it yourself, are material cooperation, which is usually remote and therefore doesn't involve you in the moral action except in a very auxiliary and minor way, and formal cooperation, which would involve you even though you are not doing it, in the way that makes you culpable."

Huh?

Neither the Bible nor Natural Law are that complicated - and I'm glad! For obfuscation, these folks are as bad as lawyers.

[MeanWestTexan]

Call the Knights Templars as back up.

Chicken-eating protestants, but still bear swords.

;-)

[kjo]

In the not too distant future it won’t just be the Knights of Columbus...look at what the homosexuals are doing in California and Michigan. They are confronting Christians not only on the streets but in at least one case, in their own church.

Near Lansing last Sunday, homosexuals invaded a church service to throw leafletts around and chant various obscene words. Not that the mainstream media has noticed.

Guess such church invasions are not newsworthy.

I hate the mainstream media.

[MrB]

Rush tried to tell a Catholic that called that most of the Catholics that voted for 0bama probably had no idea was his position on abortion/infanticide was.

I don’t give them that charity - if they were ignorant, they were wilfully ignorant.

[IbJensen]

I knew it! I knew it!

A war between Christianity and the new communist administration.

Wait. I think I see Generalisimo Franco moving North up I-95 towards the enemy city-state of Washington, D. C.

Or is it the forces of Augusto Pinochet?

At any rate, culture-warriors it looks like a full-blown revolution.

And Obomba hasn't even been sworn in yet.

[The Great RJ]

Any “Catholic” member of Congress who votes for the Freedom of Choice Act should face immediate and very public excommunication starting with Pelosi and Biden.

[teletech]

It’s not about “guaranteeing rights” - it’s about killing as many babies as possible. There is no other reason to defund crisis pregnancy (abortion alternative) centers.

ABORTION=MURDER! PERIOD!

[Frantzie]

There was a story posted here yesterday written by a police detective in LA who is Moromon (LDS). The story also had pictures. He said the gays almost stormed the huge LDS church in LA and probably would have burned it down. Some cops he overheard said things like “it would serve the Mormons right.” Really pathetic and frightening.

[chris_bdba]

IMHO the Vatican probably views Obama in bibical terms, his views are very much aligned with what the bible says about the anti-Christ.

[LottieDah]

One of my neighbors, a Knight of Columbus” pulled the lever for Obama and said that Obama’s stand on infanticide was “made up”.

[melsec]

“Any “Catholic” member of Congress who votes for the Freedom of Choice Act should face immediate and very public excommunication starting with Pelosi and Biden.”

Yes and we should all call out the Bishops on it to make sure it happens.

[polymuser]

That blacks voted overwhelmingly for a man that will put Planned Parenthood’s goals of black population reduction in overdrive is also mind-boggling. The Jewish vote was crazy, too. So much is crazy about the support for That One.

[Antoninus]

It is WAY long past time to let the excommunications fly. No politician who votes for FOCA should be permitted to pretend to be a Catholic.

[mgist]

You may be surprised to know that there are many spiritually enlightened priests. Some are simply “Not of this world” enlightened. The writings of Pope John Paul are amazing. We have also had numerous apparitions warning us about Communism. Look into FATIMA or Lourdes I’m not sure.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the church was warned. I know it may seem strange to some but, remember angels came and warned people in our biblical history.

[omega4412]

Obama will go after the Knights of Columbus as a hate group.

Hope so. That will be another piece of overreaching, and overreaching will doom Obamamania. Overreach 1, FoCA. Overreach 2, confiscation of IRAs and 401(k)s.

[mmichaels1970]

Bookmark. Last weekend a paper copy of the FOCA was floating around at a family party. My 90 yr old Grandmother was admonishing those who voted for O.

[MSSC6644]

My 90 yr old Grandmother was admonishing those who voted for O.

I love your grandmother. How blessed you are to have such strength and intelligence in your genes.

[mmichaels1970]

How blessed you are to have such strength and intelligence in your genes.

Thank you for what I consider to be among the highest of compliments.

[Don Corleone]

Obama will go after the Knights of Columbus as a hate group.

If he does the "Knights Templar" will resurrect and take his @ss to the wall.

[Night Hides Not]

Guess such church invasions are not newsworthy.

It would be quite newsworthy if such a situation occurred in my parish. To put it simply, there would be some serious Texas ass-whippin' taking place.

From what I've seen, they only go after little old ladies, and/or they outnumber the good guys by 15-1.

My sixth graders see me get into "Drill Sergeant" mode, but now I do it only for appearance sake. Anybody try and invade my church, they'll get the real thing.

[NHResident]

Those donations to ACORN are why I won’t contribute to the
‘Human Development’ collection on Sunday. Well, that and the fact that I am still waiting for our local pastor to give even as MUCH attention to abortion as he does to earth worship. Still hasn’t happened. ‘Earth stewardship’ gets time and multiple references in the homily, abortion gets a 1 sentence mumbled throw away comment at the end of a (very)few homilies.

Of course, our Bishop was a big pervert enabler, assigning predatory, child-molesting priests to parishes for Boston’s ex-Cardinal, now sunning himself in Rome.

[Frantzie]

Sad. It is like the devil is in the church with these people. Earth Stewardship?!? Tell him to stop the earth stewardship nonsense and talk about St. Francis of Assisi.

“He is known as the patron saint of animals, the environment and Italy, and it is customary for Catholic churches to hold ceremonies honouring animals around his feast day of 4 October.”

St. Francis was an “environmentalist” in 1200 AD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

Probably my favorite saint particularly for his love of animals especially birds.

[NoLibZone]

BS!

He will carry the Catholic vote again in 2012.

[Emmett McCarthy]

I can’t help bit note that these warnings are coming from the Vatican, i.e. Rome. Will the “American Catholics” heed that or will they continue in their own corruption of Church teachings? I say this as a practicing bonafide Catholic, but I see the possibility of schism coming down the road. I don’t like it, but it may have to happen.

[fightinJAG]

Give me a break. It was Catholics who majorly helped elect Obama.

The church needs to focus on that little fact first. Just MHO.

[ezcritter]

Let's see what obama does after he is sworn in and if the United States is still standing before talking about 2012.

With the clintons running obama we may have turned every over to China.

[hocndoc]

The good news is that the Bishops formally removed their support for ACORN -

http://www.startribune.com/nation/34306754.html

http://lonestartimes.com/2008/11/17/catholic-church-cuts-off-acorn/

[STUDABAKER]

I FOR ONE DO HOPE THIS WILL HAPPEN. ABOUT A YEAR AGO I LEFT MY CHURCH FOR A TRADITIONAL PRE VATICAN 2 CHURCH. THESE PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IN SIN AND WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS ABORTION.

[STUDABAKER]

I FOR ONE DO HOPE THIS WILL HAPPEN. ABOUT A YEAR AGO I LEFT MY CHURCH FOR A TRADITIONAL PRE VATICAN 2 CHURCH. THESE PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IN SIN AND WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS ABORTION.

[Emmett McCarthy]

Yes, I’d rather see a smaller, but more faithful Church instead of various bishops hiding behind fear of losing their damned old “tax-exempt” status. They’re either spineless or duplicitious - hell, maybe both.

[Running On Empty]

Jag,

The Church spoke. I thank God for that.

It has been speaking out on moral issues since the beinning. We have encyclicicals (teaching letters) from Rome about family life, about communism, about proper social order, about the sacredness of life. In the more recent 50-60 years of more public appearances of our Popes, and more global communication, we have heard a great deal about these matters, especially from John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II and now Benedict XVI.

Those who “have ears to hear”, have listened and responded.

There are always going to be those who don’t “hear” or for whatever reason don’t respond with a good conscience.

There’s no need to blackball all Catholics. Nor do I believe that Catholics “majorly helped elect Obama.”

There are too many variables in this election scenario to blame the election of Obama on one factor, one sector or one cause.

I regret that any Catholic voted for Obama. But many who may be registered as “Catholic” may be Catholics in name only and do not represent the % of Catholics who are faithful, practicing Catholics.

I don’t like to see broad-brush statements like this, especially if they are based on questionable statistics.

[fightinJAG]

I apologize.

That said, it is true that Catholics, whether in name only or not, did majorly help Obama get elected. So did “evangelicals.”

For goodness sake, Joe Biden is “Catholic.”

My point is this: it becomes very difficult for the message of the church to have any chance of getting through when the alleged adherents are one of the pillars of the administration’s support.

[hocndoc]

I don’t know whether you saw this
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2135965/posts

[narses]

+

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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

[mgist]

For all of those who complain about Catholics voting for Obama:

You’re right, Catholics voted for Obama by 52%. Catholics vote will likely have a strong effect on all presidential otcomes.

The problem is that they didn’t/don’t know what Obama stands for. The media malpractice that ocurred in this election was unprecedentented.

Also, our church has been under attack for years. We are attacked by liberal philosophy for not “getting in line”, and we are attacked by those who consider themselves “Christian” for you name it. We are attacked by Jews because of historical disagreements. We have been attacked by the enemy from within, like every other human individual or group.

This election is a wake up call to all of us who serve a common purpose. We should unite, carry our crosses, and defend our real Leader, in this war against the most innocent and defenseless.

Please do your part whenever the opportunity present itself to tell the world who Planned Parenthood is. Tell them who Margaret Sanger is. Tell them what is happening in our once blessed country.

http://www.blackgenocide.org

http://www.eadshome.com/MargaretSanger.htm

[Salvation]

Pray for LIFE!

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[Salvation]

That would be great!

[no dems]

How can the Catholic Church go to war with Obama when most of it’s “soldiers” have surrendered already? The Catholic vote went to Obama; not McCain.

[Barnacle]

I applaude the Catholic Church for speaking out on abortion and Obama. I would hope all Protestant Churches start doing the same.

What you point out is one of the reasons I remain Catholic. Believe me, it entails a bit of will power at times. But, I guess the same can be said of anything one considers worthwhile.

Thanks for your encouragement.

[Barnacle]

7 million for ACORN? Maybe the church should have stopped trying to get Obama elected....

Please explain you post.

[topher]

YouTube video:

Getting Catholics aware of whats about to come... -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cwYKnVgITs

[SQUID]

Why warn?