Posted on 11/23/2008 10:31:07 PM PST by rabscuttle385
RIO DE JANEIRO, Nov. 20 -- Argentina's Senate on Thursday night gave final approval to the government's plan to nationalize the private pension system in an attempt to protect retirement investments from the international financial crisis.
The proposal by President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner last month to nationalize about $25 billion in private pension funds provoked an outburst of criticism that the government was seizing retirement savings for cash to shore up its finances. But after 12 hours of deliberation Thursday, Fernández de Kirchner's plan was approved 46 to 18 by senators who argued that the private pension system never served the country well.
Argentina's private pension funds were created in 1994 by then-President Carlos Menem to give people the choice to opt out of the struggling public pension system.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Paulson can’t be far behind.
“The proposed expropriation would eliminate individual savings, and convert them into a pay-as-you-go system
I promise the day they pull this crap in the US is the last day I show up for work.
Obama is learning from THEM!!
Really?!? Why, all this time, us silly old free thinkers always thought the purpose of a private pension fund was to serve the pensioners! Once again have we been shown the error of our ways!
In passing, you folks out there realize, don't you, that if Obama is permitted to get far enough along the "Road To Serfdom" with his program, this is what he'll do to us? And they'll use the same kind of rationale - to "protect the people from the current economic upheaval" - which these selfsame bastards engineered in the first place. Orwellian speech patterns are pretty sophisticated (at least to the public-schooled portion of the population, which is at least 80%) these days, and they have people whose job it is to do nothing else but to perfect this kind of thing.
But I digress....
If you out there remember nothing else of what I post, I beseech you, remember this:
We have long since moved past the labels of things like "Democrats" and "Republicans", or "Conservative" or "Liberal", or even "Cavaliers" and "Roundheads"!
No, today the line that differentiates us is...."US" vs "THEM", and with the events of each succeeding day I become more and more convinced this is true.
Consider what you will of the content, but remember the message, that in the days ahead you might profit by it.
CA....
I wouldn’t want that to happen here, but it makes sense in a small economy such as Argentina, where they are subject to the turbulent ups and downs of America, Europe and Japan, and can not simply legislate away the problem, since they do not have direct oversight of the major financial markets. One problem is if the government raids the pension funds to pay debts.
I do wonder how much $$$ the Kirchners are going to get out of this deal though. The husband has been known for taking his “share” of government funds.
It says the private scheme has only been around since 1995, hardly enough time to prove its viability one way or the other.
Still, gov’t grabs it all, helps them in the short term of course, they can then dole out a little later.
Congress held hearings suggesting similar right before the election altho’ to be fair the committee chairman showed little enthusiasm for it.
“... plan to nationalize the private pension system in an attempt to protect retirement investments from the international financial crisis.”
Ya right... It is all about getting their sticky fingers on the money.
"Ignorance is bliss" - Cypher
I understand your thoughts, though I would just quietly form my own “pension fund” in the form of a bank account, and possibly stocks, commodoties, mutual funds bought individually-certainly wouldn’t contribute 1c to any “offical pension fund”-other than SS which gov makes me!
Though if you have been saving your whole life-THAT IS THEFT and I understand your position!!
My question - how do you convice these people. Or is it just wasting time. He also believes that a US Nationalized Health care plan will not be the same as Europes or Canadas, that we will still keep the health care we have now. I try to tell him that that is not the plan. The plan is to take over all health care and that businesses will go along with it because they will not have to pay into health care. He doesn't believe it.
What can you do? This is a college educated lib who just refuses to believe what will happen.
My question - how do you convice these people. Or is it just wasting time. He also believes that a US Nationalized Health care plan will not be the same as Europes or Canadas, that we will still keep the health care we have now. I try to tell him that that is not the plan. The plan is to take over all health care and that businesses will go along with it because they will not have to pay into health care. He doesn't believe it.
What can you do? This is a college educated lib who just refuses to believe what will happen.
Look how many college-educated conservatives right here on FR refused to believe that the economy was on the verge of melting down - that all such analysis came from "Bush haters" trying to "talk down the economy".
Most people simply won't process information they don't want to hear. The few who learn this ability are the ones we call "successful" and everybody envies them. ;)
To move past this, your friend must become open to the concept of "Accuracy In Thinking", which involves critical thought and logical analysis. Until that happens, you might as well be talking to the wall.
Denial, of course, has been a well exercised trademark of liberal mental legerdemain. Even in the face of overwhelming empirical evidence they will deny the obvious, or, if that becomes well nigh impossible, they'll blame it someone else, never their own.
This intractability makes intelligent conversation difficult, if not impossible. If, however, you are determined to plunge ahead, then that is what we'll do.
First off, the source(s) is NOT a blog. Maybe there's a lot of commentary going on there, but it's not the news story.
The news story has, in fact, been in the wind for quite some time (before the actual nationalization has taken effect, of course). But exactly what is it about Argentina that makes this story completely incomprehensible to your friend? That nation is a banana republic (well, the "republic" part really is just window dressing), and in that political climate, stuff like this is the norm. You mention that little fact to your friend.
Now, if his vision of a "US Nationalized Health care plan" does not follow the Euros or the Canadians, then just what will the template be? If under his vision "we still keep the health care we have now", what is the impetus to nationalize? If it's a new plan, it can't, by definition, be the old plan, because our fearless, feckless leaders have found the old plan wanting and unsatisfactory, necessitating installation of a "new" plan!
Has your friend ever entertained the idea that this whole charade is nothing more than a part and parcel of leviathan government's insatible desire for yet another power grab? Probably not, but you should mention it in passing.
Actually, all this is kind of moot. The government is busy committing hari kari, and they're intent on taking the rest of us with them. This "bailout" thing is growing like Topsy, it's getting out of control (really, out of the government's ability to "control"). Along with all the other unfunded liabilities we've saddled the nation and future generations with, we have these "taxpayer-funded bailouts", almost none of which will see repayment of any kind, being given to concerns that would be much better served, from the public weal point of view, by either declaring bankruptcy and then asking for federal assistance, or being allowed to expire altogether, allowing new and more vibrant economic entities to take their place in growing a new economy.
The bottom line? The government, in spite of (or perhaps because of) it's best intentions ("the road to hell is paved with good intentions"), is not going to make it. The really bad news is, neither will we.
It depends on how much you value the friendship of this guy - it's certainly not my place to determine those things for you - but if your friend is open to rational discourse, you might subtly mention that with most people of inquiring intellect their real education starts the moment they leave school. To give you a little insight on that, it wasn't until well after a year after I left high school that I became aware there actually was another point of view (that was the mid '60s).
I'm college educated, too, but my conversion to capitalism and conservatism occurred outside the classroom, and I have found myself none the poorer for having taken that approach.
Good luck with your friend.
CA....
Well, hell. I have a long term healthcare policy to kick in after the other policies reach their limits. But I’m thinking of dropping it, because I can no longer afford the payments. A lot of other people will do the same.
What corporation or individual would continue to pay for private health insurance if he could get it for free? The obvious answer is, only the very rich, who can afford private doctors even in a national healthcare situation. The very, very rich. Saudi Sheikhs and American billionaires.
Thanks for the advice. I try not to get drawn into these conversations. It leaves me frustrated and exasperated.
You haven’t been paying attention to what the enemy is saying. FIRST they appropriate all private 401k’s and IRA’s. THEN they require you to belong to a MANDATORY “pension plan” with MANDATED contributions based on income. In return they will generously donate $600 bucks a year. In addition unlike your 401k and IRA this make believe “pension” has only a tiny percentage that can be inherited by your heirs, the rest will go to the herd.
No thanks. I’ll hop in the wagon, and spend my time at the beach.
I’ll be there or in the cage with you Kozak.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.