Skip to comments.Mormon aid to Prop. 8 investigated (Gestapo)
Posted on 11/24/2008 6:48:48 PM PST by Drango
California officials are planning to investigate whether the Mormon church gave an accurate accounting of its role in the campaign that succeeded in getting a same-sex marriage ban approved in the state.
The action by the California Fair Political Practices Commission came in response to a complaint filed two weeks ago by a gay rights activist. Fred Karger, founder of Californians Against Hate, accuses the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of failing to report the value of the work it did to support Proposition 8. Roman Porter, the agency's executive director, said Monday that the decision to open an investigation does not mean staff members have determined there was any wrongdoing, only that Karger's complaint merits further inquiry.
A representative from the Salt Lake City-based church could not be reached for comment.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
Im very proud of the Catholics and Mormons who stood tall supporting prop 8. Kinda wonder why the evangelical movement was relatively silent on the issue? Blessings to all churches that were shining their light in the darkness!
Oh for HEAVENS SAKE. Get over it. GAYS need to understand, the PEOPLE expressed their opinion. Suck up your gut, get some more petitions and try it again.
It figures. California leads the way to hell
Californians Against Hate had better look at themselves first.
LOL....much shorter than "lavender mafia wearing brown
If “progressives” are concerned about hate-filled churches immersing themselves into secular politics, perhaps they should start with the Obamessiah’s church.
Dollars to do-nuts says that Freddie boy hates Mormons.
...but needs a do-nut just to be able to sit most days....
“Californians Against Hate” sounds like an Orwellian organization. “Hate” apparently is not wanting marriage to be redefined.
Ah.... the McCain legacy in action.
“California Fair Political Practices Commission”
I find this name ironic.
The only way homosexuals can resurrect this Bill is to suck it up, swallow their pride, get on their knees and ask for forgiveness from God.
That was my facebook status for a while. It started a lot of conversations. I thank the Mormons for what they did.
To be added to this ping list just make some stupid bathroom humor innuendo that has nothing to do with anything being seriously discussed by serious Americans who care about the downward spiral of our Republic. In the words of that great poet and philosopher James Buffet "If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane."
I agree. More than any other group they put themselves out there publicly to stand for decency and they are being persecuted for it. This is just a foreshadow of the coming witch hunt towards Christians. Also the “hate speech” measures passed in Colorado. The fags are simmering with anger that there are still people who will not give them the moral approval they so desperately crave and need to mitigate their own self-loathing and won’t stop until they get not tolerance, but approval, even from religious groups with long-standing prohibitions against sodomy and other perversion. At this point I find it difficult to love the sinner and hate the sin, they are so completely identified with their sin, brazenly forcing their perversion everywhere.
I have no love of the Mormon theology, but this is a witch hunt. Today we are all Mormon
After the primary season and everything that was said on here against the Mormons and Mitt Romney, I surprised to hear this. It is a welcome surprise though!
Could this be the embryonic version of our equivalent to Canada’s “Human Rights Courts” or whatever they’re called?
The LDS Church has few paid clergy... it is almost all volunteer; from the level of the local clergy up to (at least) the next level or two of the organizational structure, none of them get paid or work on "church time." One has to go pretty high up to find someone in the church (other than in seminaries or "unrelated" church-owned businesses) who is somehow on the payroll...
The workers/volunteers who did the work for Prop 8's passage, like those who donated $$, did so as private individuals who share a common private membership in a church which took a stand on this as a moral, social issue.
Is it possible that they'll find a volunteer who held a meeting or had a conversation about the topic in a church building? Yes, it is possible, but from any legal standpoint it would be established as a diminimus, insignificant violation of the church's own policy on formal political involvement. If such minor policy violations were established, it would clearly not represent a legal problem for the church, but the opponents would take it, amplify and distort it, and otherwise make a mountain out of a molehill. Count on it.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
The Family: A Proclamation to the World
The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
September 23, 1995
To Liberals "hate" means disagreement with Liberalism. It's like when they say "hate speech" or "hate radio". So, in that sense, the group's name is honest. It is against anyone who disagrees with them. Homosexuals are all about euphemisms; "gay" actually means happy, "lesbian" is a person who resides on the Greek island of Lesbos, and the rainbow doesn't represents them.
Do Mormans believe in the right to bear arms? I sure hope they do.
I don’t agree with Mormon Theology, either, but I do like that heavily Mormon areas are low crime and conservative strong holds. Mitt would have made a good president. Much better than the fraud we are stuck with.
Dont take this as criticism but as commentary...but what does it say about the current state of Christendom when a non-orthodox christian group leads Christendom in a very public campaign?
The ONLY reason for such a list is for the gaystopo to launch a modern day kristallnacht against people of faith.
Don’t what your post was about, but leave me off your ping list whatever it is.
It must be too early in the morning, I guess.
Especially the part where the "gestapo" comes and rounds you up and carts you off to the death camps!
It's baffling the way the mormon church thought that CA, of all places, was UT and they could practice their usual heavy-handed control over the state government without a pushback.
The LDS PR machine made a major misstep by jumping up front and center and taking the credit, and the gays aren't going to let them forget it...look for several years of law suits, and Joseph Smith and/or "persecuted blacks" (especially with Obama in office) movies, documentaries etc. coming out of Hollywood.
I'll be sitting back eating popcorn and laughing! So long to Mitt's chance of gaining the White House!
Wow! You were eavesdropping on all CA Evangelicals and Evangelical leaders? You monitored all Voters' Guides that went out from all CA Evangelical churches?
California has more Christians than any other state (not % wise -- that's actually pretty low; just sheer numbers). Believe me, had the Evangelicals remained "silent" as your audacity of deceit claims, then Prop 8 wouldn't have passed.
It took an effective coalition of Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals, mainline Protestants, and, as we saw with the voting results, minority voters. Even the O-man "contributed" indirectly -- as his presence on the ballot drove up minority voter turnout, who in turn, tended to vote for Prop 8.
If you're going to make your "relatively silent" claim, then I would wager your evidential proof is likewise based upon an argument from silence.
OK, this kind of almost-cowering language is exactly what those folks want LDS to do...intimidate the LDS Church into silence on speaking out on moral/social issues the next time this comes down the pike. Don't do it. We're not talking about partisan candidates here. We're talking about moral/social issues and God has given every American the right to speak out on moral/social issues.
The LDS Church has few paid clergy... it is almost all volunteer...The workers/volunteers who did the work for Prop 8's passage, like those who donated $$, did so as private individuals who share a common private membership in a church which took a stand on this as a moral, social issue.
OK, point taken, but there's nothing wrong with Mormon leaders speaking out on moral/social issues -- no matter what the context. (They do it all the time)
...from the level of the local clergy up to (at least) the next level or two of the organizational structure, none of them get paid or work on "church time." One has to go pretty high up to find someone in the church (other than in seminaries or "unrelated" church-owned businesses) who is somehow on the payroll...
Well, while this is true salary wise, stipend reimbursement for many LDS "volunteer" bishops can be quite steep. (For one, for example, $40,000 in 1993 monetary terms). That's not to stay bishops don't incur expenses; they do. It's just that they seem to be well "compensated."
Sorry, but Salt Lake City has been a white-collar crime mecca for decades.
Wow, TC! Somebody doesn't even have to post anything, and you're "on" them bashing them as "bashers."
(Oh, and ya wanna explain why you have some special license to "bash" that otherwise would lump you in as one?)
By all means, commend the Mormons for stepping up to the plate on Prop 8. Still, the figures I saw is that they gave about $15.4 million out of the $35.8 million raised...42%. Hefty? (Yes) The majority? (No. I mean how many candidates who garner 42% of the vote can claim a "majority" win?)
Lest you forget, many Evangelicals/Protestants consider their Catholic and Orthodox brothers as coming under the same universal umbrella of a certain faith called "Christianity." Now did the other 58% come from this umbrella? Well, I'm sure some of it came from those who claimed Judaism, Islam, and even atheism. But I would "wager" that over 50% came from those with ties to traditional Christianity.
So, tell me again how that "leads Christendom in a very public campaign?"
Also, such a campaign is NOT only about the $ contributed. It's also an "air" game of relating to the public and the "ground" game of getting out the vote. LDS is only about 2% of CA; its CA ground game had natural limitations. So no matter what you think, LDS did not "lead Christendom" in the "air" or "ground" game in getting Prop 8 passed.
In your zeal to slap down any positive comments about Mormons, you overlooked the facts in your own post. Mormons are 2% of the population of California, but they gave 42% of the pro-Prop. 8 money.
They were also vastly overrepresented among those doing the volunteer work to pass Prop. 8.
Yes, "hefty" isn't it? (And that's why I said...they did "hefty" work)
If I had tried to "shoot down" what LDS did, I wouldn't have mentioned that "hefty" ratio of 42%/2% -- nor would I have used a word like "hefty."
My point was that grassroots Mormons stepped up to the plate; but grassroots Mormons didn't take the campaign "lead." That's all.
Allow me to illustrate: Let's say a Mitt Romney type candidate spends millions & millions & millions and secures over 50% of the vote vs. a candidate who spent only 2% of what he spent -- yet secured 42% of the vote...we would both agree that the losing candidate "overperformed" and "got the biggest bang for the buck" and "got great campaign mileage" and had a superb "grassroots effort" and the like. Still, that candidate with 42% wasn't the "leader" at the end of the campaign. The Romney-like candidate was.
They were also vastly overrepresented among those doing the volunteer work to pass Prop. 8.
And that's great! (I hope after being slammed by homosexuals and the MSM this go-round that this will still be the case in the next round). Still, what I said tends to be true...LDS are heavily family people. They tend to have larger families and more family concerns. And, as a people, they tend to be more insular. (That's what I meant by limitations).
2% of people who tend (not exclusively, mind you) to hang out with other LDS family members & friends could only go so far -- and would not make for the foundation or basis of such a massive campaign.
The following excerpt from Mr. Hinckley's proclamation expresses the zeal, concern and dedication to familial values that should be embraced by all individuals whether they believe in God or not.
* * * *
Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. Children are an heritage of the Lord (Psalms 127:3).
Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live.
Husbands and wivesmothers and fatherswill be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.
Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities.
By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families.
Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners.
Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.
We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
You are right. We do have larger families, and we tend to focus on them. We all are called upon to do volunteer work in our churches, too. So we are busy.
But I would not call us “insular,” unless by “insular” you mean that you won’t find us in the local pubs after work, looking for company.
We are counseled to be “in the world, but not of it.” We tend to be highly educated, and well involved in the business of the world. Because most of our young people serve distant missions, Mormons tend to have greater experience in the broader world than the average American.
I guess the difference is that we have less free time than the average American, and we tend to spend it in G-rated ways. But sticking to your principles doesn’t make you “insular.” Once upon a time in America, sticking to your principles was considered admirable.
BTW, this whole investigation thing is such a crock. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Mormon Church — or any other church — being involved in this issue. California has just imposed reporting requirements, and they are hoping to catch the Mormon Church is some kind of violation of the reporting requirement. You have to wonder if these kinds of reporting requirements should even be considered constitutional.
I have to agree.
Because we tend to do our 'work' anonymously and not crow about our efforts.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
WE ALL ARE MORMONS....by Rabbi Shifren
We are living in an era of insanity! Witness the latest attempt to remake the nature of our country, founded and established on certain principles that have been the envy of the entire world. The latest assault on our country and its values comes in the form of vicious and criminal violence against the Mormon church in Westwood, California
Interesting how the selective self-righteous indignation on the part of the radical Gay activists is played out here: they bewail the blow to freedom and justice! But I thought we just had elections, where the majority of Californians expressed their views in a free and open manner. Are we not a nation of laws? Dare we relive the McCarthy era, where Americans were harassed and threatened with the loss of their jobs for believing in a certain way? If the Gay radicals should have their way, untold numbers of Americans would live under the threat of the Gay-Lesbian thought police, where individuals that reject the Gay lifestyle would be sought out and have sanctions brought against them.
Its bad enough for those working in the entertainment industry here in Los Angeles, where a fog of political correctness and a bending over backwards to accommodate, even promote Gay lifestyle is in full gear. Let none dare say that this type of activity is anathema to our country, our morality, and the debauchery of our young people.
Let it be stated unequivocally: The radical Gay attack on the Mormons is the shot over the bow against the United States of America. There was a time when what a man did in his bedroom was sanctified between himself and G-d. Now we are being served an in-your-face smorgasbord of smut and licentiousness as being between people who only want their civil rights.
Hogwash! We are dealing with the equivalent of a moral takeover of the country that has as its bedrock a belief in G-d and His promise for humanity. They dont want civil rights! What they desire is quasi Gay/Lesbian hegemony, where a huge bookburning, reminiscent of the Nazis, will purge any remnants of the Christian, White, mainstream America that has given ALL AMERICANS the most profound scope of freedom, liberty, and justice that Mankind has yet to experience.
People have perhaps wondered: why the Mormons? Answer: they are a small, yet vocal Christian minority. They have been selected by the mobs as vulnerable, a group that might not have such massive support among Americas Christians.
We who are friends of the Mormons, their patriotism, their family values, will not falter in our continued support of these dear Americans. Let us recall the Christian minister Niemoller, whose admonition during those dark years of Nazi Germany moved us to our core:
When they came for the gypsies, I said nothing, because I wasnt a gypsy. When they came for the homosexuals, I said nothing, because I wasnt a homosexual. When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I wasnt a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I said nothing, because I wasnt a Catholic......then they came for me, and there was no one left to defend me.
My fellow Americans, in the coming battle for the heart and soul of America and everything we cherish, may this call to arms be the mantra of every concerned patriot:
WE ALL ARE MORMONS!