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Lose-Lose on Abortion; Obama's threat to Catholic hospitals and their very serious counterthreat.
Slate ^ | 24 November 2008 | Melinda Henneberger

Posted on 11/24/2008 8:28:54 PM PST by Lorianne

When I saw the Catholic bishops had declared war on President-elect Obama at their semiannual meeting in Baltimore two weeks ago, my first reaction was pique: Gosh, guys, it isn't even parade day yet, and here you are, all dressed up and ready to rain on it.

Were they in spasm because Obama had won Catholics by nine points? (Nine! A landslide compared with the five by which my co-religionists had favored Bush in '04.) Peeved because even some of the most ardent pro-lifers had broken ranks? (In Colorado, where Denver Archbishop Charles J. Chaput called Obama "the most committed 'abortion rights' presidential candidate of either major party since the Roe v. Wade abortion decision in 1973,'' it was Catholic voters who turned the state from red to blue.)

...

What in the world were these bishops talking about, claiming that religious freedom in America was under attack? Keep up the hysterics, boys, I thought as I scanned the latest story, and this will be birth control all over again: Your lips are moving but no one can hear you. And the most ludicrous line out of them, surely, was about how, under Obama, Catholic hospitals that provide obstetric and gynecological services might soon be forced to perform abortions or close their doors. Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Chicago warned of "devastating consequences" to the health care system, insisting Obama could force the closure of all Catholic hospitals in the country. That's a third of all hospitals, providing care in many neighborhoods that are not exactly otherwise overprovided for. It couldn't happen, could it?

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; bho2008; catholichospitals; conscienceclause; foca; healthcare
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You have to read it to believe it.
1 posted on 11/24/2008 8:28:54 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

Close them down then. If this nation supports the slaughter of the unborn, then it can suffer without the hospitals. Catholics better hold their ground.


2 posted on 11/24/2008 8:34:14 PM PST by lookout88 (Combat search and rescue officer's dad.)
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To: Lorianne

My thoughts on this article are unprintable and would get me banned.


3 posted on 11/24/2008 8:35:35 PM PST by pray4liberty (Always vote for life!)
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To: Lorianne

Abortion is paramount to Marxists.

Then again, Karl Marx wrote poetry glorifying Satan and Saul Alinsky virtually dedicated the Communisty Organizer manual to him, so it figures.


4 posted on 11/24/2008 8:36:23 PM PST by unspun (PRAY & WORK FOR FREEDOM - investigatingobama.blogspot.com)
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To: Lorianne

**Were they in spasm because Obama had won Catholics by nine points? (Nine! A landslide compared with the five by which my co-religionists had favored Bush in ‘04.)**

Slate needs to do his homework. Catholics did NOT vote for Obama. CINOs did. And in doing so they excommunicated themselves and cannot receive Communion validly.


5 posted on 11/24/2008 8:39:48 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: lookout88

Yes, the bishops very much had better hold this line. They will be treatened with loss of tax-exempt status and hope they say, “No problem”. They may be forced to openly ex-communicate certain politician and I hope they don’t mince words about it. Let’s make the political reality as ugly as possible. It can never be anywhere near as ugly as the reality of the work of the abortionists.


6 posted on 11/24/2008 8:39:49 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: lookout88

**Catholics better hold their ground.**

Catholics and many others will be persecuted. May the Lord Almighty have mercy on us!


7 posted on 11/24/2008 8:40:54 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Lorianne; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

8 posted on 11/24/2008 8:41:39 PM PST by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
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To: Lorianne
Many Bishops are speaking out. God bless them one and all.

Pray for LIFE!

Lose-Lose on Abortion; Obama's threat to Catholic hospitals and their very serious counterthreat.
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9 posted on 11/24/2008 8:42:39 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Lorianne

Well when 50+% Catholics voted for O and the Church gives money to ACORN and other left wing groups it makes it a lot harder. All the good people in the church and the pews have their good works diluted by a small number of satanists.

I am not too happy with the Jews either who voted 78% for a good friend of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. This is not anti-semitic but pro-Israel because Israelis supported McCain 3 to 1.


10 posted on 11/24/2008 8:43:44 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: Lorianne
Obama co sponsored the bill. But then she knew that, didn't she?
11 posted on 11/24/2008 8:43:46 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: Lorianne
There's just too much drivel for me to wade through.

So what was "their very serious counterthreat"?

12 posted on 11/24/2008 8:44:29 PM PST by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: lookout88
"Catholics better hold their ground".

What Catholics, Less than 30% of professed Catholics go to Mass every week. From what I can see very few families, Catholic or otherwise, have more than two children.

I can not think of the last time a real homily about actual consequences of sin was delivered by any priest. All of the talk in Church is about how God is Love. No talk about responsibilities or consequences. No Hell and Damnation. all touchy fealy and nobody in the pews.

13 posted on 11/24/2008 8:51:00 PM PST by Jim from C-Town
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To: Jim from C-Town

. all touchy fealy and nobody in the pews.

Yeah. lot’s of talk about needing more money though.


14 posted on 11/24/2008 8:57:55 PM PST by lookout88 (Combat search and rescue officer's dad.)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
“They may be forced to openly excommunicate certain politician and I hope they don’t mince words about it.”

I'll believe it when I see it. There is no excuse for the church not having already publicly excommunicating Teddy Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Joe Biden as well as Rudy Giuliani and others.

They should immediately and publicly excommunicate Teddy Kennedy and deny him a Catholic funeral without his first confessing his numerous sins in private and publicly and vehemently changing his stance on abortion.

15 posted on 11/24/2008 8:59:40 PM PST by Jim from C-Town
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To: Lorianne

The closing of Catholic hospitals would definitely create a health care crisis and help socialists finally get their dream of socialized medicine.


16 posted on 11/24/2008 9:00:17 PM PST by Tzimisce (http://groups.myspace.com/nailthemessiah)
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To: Slump Tester
So what was "their very serious counterthreat"?

It's in the article, but I'll save you the trouble of actually reading the first few paragraphs.

They've said they'd close down the Catholic hospitals rather than be forced to perform abortions. That's a very serious threat indeed.

It's one I fervently hope is carried through should this monstrous FOCA become law. And for the record, I am not Catholic.

L

17 posted on 11/24/2008 9:03:54 PM PST by Lurker ("America is at that awkward stage. " Claire Wolfe, call your office.)
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To: Lorianne
their very serious counterthreat...

.... ...is this:

"The bishops are not bluffing when they say they'd turn out the [hospital] lights rather than comply.

Also this tidbit, which was interesting since I started tracking the religious voting statistics in this election:

Obama and Biden won 63-36 in Pennsylvania's heavily Catholic Lackawanna County, home to Scranton Bishop Joseph Martino, who seemed beside himself over the pro-choice position taken by Vice President-elect Joe Biden

18 posted on 11/24/2008 9:04:07 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: Lorianne

The strategy to defeat FOCA is to point out to pro-abortion politicians it’s not merely an abortion issue.

One is this possibility of Catholic hospitals closing. If not done nationwide, each bishop in his diocese could order hospitals and clinics closed. SO even if the USCCB is too spineless, there are many bishops individually who are not.

Second is the tremendous risk for abuse, rape and statutory rape. Currently if a 14 year old pregnant girl shows up for an abortion and says the father is her mom’s boyfriend or her uncle or a 22-year old, it has to be reported to authorities. (Not always done but at least that’s the law.) With abortion-on-demand for anyone, anytime, with no parental notification, no questions asked, many girls will be forced to abort by abusers and then likely continue to be molested.

Third, one bishop has gone so far as to say, if the govt funds abortions freely, we should give up tax-exempt status but also refuse to pay taxes, and that all Christians may find themselves with a real moral question of whether it’s no longer ethical to render under Ceasar. Now, I highly doubt a hugh nationwide Christian refusal to pay taxes if FOCA passes, but the fact that it can be discussed openly not by some nut, but a bishop, shows these legislators are underestimating the seriousness of this matter to the half of America that is Christian.

Fourth, when you write to your Congressman, don’t assume they know any of the above. They probably have not even read FOCA, just are sticking with the party line. The letter I received from my Senator (Wyden, Oregon) in response to mine, indicated he was completely clueless as to what I was talking about.

So FOCA is just too broad, with too many ramifications, I can easily see how one could be a “pro-choice” person and still against this particular radically sweeping bill.


19 posted on 11/24/2008 9:08:00 PM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Tzimisce

I will refuse to get medical care. Only vision, dental and catastrophic care. After seeing that woman who left the hospital with all her limbs cut off, I’d rather NOT.


21 posted on 11/24/2008 9:11:59 PM PST by television is just wrong (obama is going to pay my mortgage for me!)
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To: Jim from C-Town

Jim wrote: “all touchy fealy and nobody in the pews.” You should have been at my Church yesterday, where we have the Latin Mass. The priest said, in no uncertain words, that he wouldn’t give a dime to the Catholic Campaign for Human Development and we shouldn’t either, and when they took up the second collection for that organization, no one put any money in the basket.

We need more priests like that, priests who aren’t afraid to tell us what is right and what is wrong!


22 posted on 11/24/2008 9:14:46 PM PST by MondoQueen
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To: Lorianne
People need to wake up.

We currently have a nationwide severe shortage of OB/GYNs.
OTOH, our hospital emergency rooms are the newest “tourist destinations”, for foreigners unsatisfied with their home nations nationalized health care institutions.

I submit it is way past time for Catholics to “put up, or shut up”.

23 posted on 11/24/2008 9:17:55 PM PST by sarasmom (Buyers Remorse Date : Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.)
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To: Tzimisce

“The closing of Catholic hospitals would definitely create a health care crisis and help socialists finally get their dream of socialized medicine.”

How so?

The Church would continue to own the locked up hospitals. They would not be selling them. It’s too serious a threat for Obama and Boxer not to take seriously.

Boxer may have noticed that several CA hospitals have had to close due to an overabundane of uninsured patients (illegals) who they were forced to treat. Michelle Obama as a member of the U of Chicago board called for their ER to send non-paying patients to other, lesser neighborhood facilities. Without functioning Catholic hospitals the health care system would be in a world of hurt and that would be worsened, not ameliorated, by socializing medicine.

Actually, doctors should get together and threaten that they will retire from medicine if socialized medicine is forced on them. Their profession has already suffered financially from having to treat Medicare and Medicaid patients. Many have chosen not to take M/M patients because the return is so low.


24 posted on 11/24/2008 9:25:10 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: Frantzie

“I am not too happy with the Jews either who voted 78% for a good friend of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Slapping my forehead.


25 posted on 11/24/2008 9:31:09 PM PST by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: lookout88
"Catholics better hold their ground.">\

I don't see how they could do anything else. It will be a cold day in hell before abortions are performed in a Catholic Hospital.

26 posted on 11/24/2008 9:36:39 PM PST by libs_kma (F.U.B.O.)
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To: Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; TenthAmendmentChampion; ...
Fight the Freedom of Choice Act (Unlimited Abortion) Sign the Fight FOCA Petition ASAP & Get Involved!!

ONE NATION UNDER GOD

Pro-Life PING

Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

27 posted on 11/24/2008 9:58:52 PM PST by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: Lorianne

BHO cut his teeth with these type of tactics. The Catholic Church must not relent.


28 posted on 11/24/2008 10:02:27 PM PST by LeonardFMason
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To: Jim from C-Town
Boxer is Jewish and has never claimed to be Catholic. We cannot excommunicate one who was never communicated in the first place. Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden, and Rudy Giuliani and those similarly supportive of abortion have excommunicated themselves (latae sententiae as Canon Law describes it).

Many people seem to imagine a Hollywood type script and scenario in which the evildoer is paraded through the streets in an auto da fe with a formal proclamation being read in the evildoer's face by the bishop before his/her ultimate earthly disposal. Those salutary methods were available only in the good old days. Today we are limited to less dramatic responses.

Many Catholic bishops in our country have reminded these miscreants publicly that they are not to receive the Holy Eucharist in the absence of satisfactory public repudiation of their pro-babykilling stances as public officials. No bell, book and candle but that amounts to a clerical recognition of the miscreants' self-excommunication. What is bound on earth is bound in heaven, as is traditional.

29 posted on 11/24/2008 10:30:03 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: lookout88

Ditto.


30 posted on 11/24/2008 11:29:36 PM PST by fishhound (America is failin' without Sarah Palin....working on a western song.)
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To: EDINVA

...um, because closing the Catholic hospitals would FLOOD all the others? And what happens when supply drops and demand stays the same or goes up? Lines would get long. Costs would sky rocket. Basic services would require appointments weeks in advance.

And the media would have a FIELD DAY with that. They’d parade all kinds of sick orphans and women in front of the cameras crying about the lack of health care in the US and how only the government can step in and fill the cracks.


31 posted on 11/24/2008 11:37:29 PM PST by Tzimisce (http://groups.myspace.com/nailthemessiah)
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To: Lorianne; All

Seriously, I wonder if the hospitals in question could just quit providing OB-GYN services.


32 posted on 11/25/2008 4:16:02 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: lookout88
Close them down then. If this nation supports the slaughter of the unborn, then it can suffer without the hospitals. Catholics better hold their ground.

I wonder if the bishops might be a little sheepish on their efforts over the last thirty years or so. They have, indeed, opposed abortion. My contention has always been that they have done so, wink, wink.

This is admittedly anecdotal, but most (not all) of the priests I have ever known were liberal Democrats. Countless sermons have reflected this. Archdiocese solicitation drives have funded a good many organizations that, by extension, suggested a death wish on the part of the Catholic Church. IMHO, American bishops' pronouncements over the years have been, and continue to be, anathema to the continuation of the "institution" of the United States and, by extension, the Catholic Church. I'm shocked, shocked to discover that the majority of Catholics are proabortion.

Are there qualms of late on the part of the bishops? Every one of them has been around long enough to watch it all unfold and participate.

2009 will prove darned interesting. I would like to see Congress take a run at the FOCA. This is but one area that I would like to see what kind of country we really have as I approach the twilight of my life.

33 posted on 11/25/2008 4:24:42 AM PST by stevem
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To: Lorianne

I’ll bet $100 that the bishops will cave before Obama does.


34 posted on 11/25/2008 4:32:52 AM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: EDINVA

Would it be possible for the government to take those closed hospitals under eminent domain? That’s what I’m worried about.


35 posted on 11/25/2008 5:15:46 AM PST by goldi
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To: Lurker

Also, did you notice the implication in the article that the possibility of closing these hospitals wasn’t real?

Just another one of “Satan’s little helpers” using a variation of the Biggest Lie Ever Told: Satan says I don’t exist.


36 posted on 11/25/2008 5:23:48 AM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: Lorianne

A little surprised for a Slate article. I am also concerned as a school nurse that now I’ll be mandated to teach homosexual propaganda in kindergarten or lose my job. That is a real possibility, as the One intends to make it a hate language crime if one dissents, and there is no rom for conscientious objector in this, according to him. mandated through hate-crime legislation makes it impossible to object to without facing criminal charges. America is no longer.


37 posted on 11/25/2008 5:29:57 AM PST by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: goldi

I wondered the same, but if it’s church property, I don’t think they can, nor would they be able to tax church property without changing the tax code .. but I’m not a lawyer. Nor do I know the corporate structure(s) of the Catholic hospitals.

I’ve been very disappointed with the way Catholic colleges have gone in the past 30-40 years, caving in on issues that veer from Catholic teaching. Same with formerly Methodist and Presbyterian colleges. They all seem to have lost their “Christian” bearings. The Catholic hospitals, tho, have continued in a more “Catholic” vein, refusing abortions and euthenasia.

Hopefully, just the threat to close those hospitals would cause the FOCA to lose substantial support in Congress. It’s about time the American Catholic bishops got serious about this issue. They’ve let it slide entirely too long.


38 posted on 11/25/2008 6:04:59 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: Salvation
The new world order folks. If this is so crazy then why is it on the back of the dollar bill?

Have you seen the plan for a world order? Who will govern this order? How will order be kept? Will there be a balance of power in this order? What would be considered a perfect world order? What are things that will be discarded that this order be put in place? Is it Church? Nation? Individual identity? Freedom? The bill of rights? The current Constitution?

...And what recourse do ordinary people have to file grievances in this order?

Does anyone ask these questions as your hands touch those words every single day of your lives?

39 posted on 11/25/2008 6:07:05 AM PST by SQUID
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To: Lorianne

The bishops cannot close the hospitals without the cooperation of the hospital’s Board of Directors.


40 posted on 11/25/2008 6:17:36 AM PST by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
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To: Lorianne

Obama and Congressional liberals in their arrogance and believing Lord Obama to be the overwhelming choice of the nation will push through the “Freedom of Choice Act” and immediately alienate Catholics. I hope the Bishops hold their ground and start by publicly excommunicating all “Catholic” members of Congress and the Administration who support this act. A good start would be Biden, Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and Tom Daschle.


41 posted on 11/25/2008 6:41:53 AM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: sarasmom
We currently have a nationwide severe shortage of OB/GYNs.

You can thank the lawyers for that. My mother, now retired, gave up her obstetrics practice due to extremely high malpractice insurance premiums. I'm reasonably sure we lost many other obstetricians as well due to the high insurance premiums.

42 posted on 11/25/2008 7:28:30 AM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: Lorianne

He did’nt win Catholics by 9 points. He won CINO’s (Catholics in Name Only) who have effectively auto-excommunicated themselves from their bishop’s flock....the bishops know this.


43 posted on 11/25/2008 7:31:14 AM PST by mo
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To: EDINVA
Actually, doctors should get together and threaten that they will retire from medicine if socialized medicine is forced on them.

The looter administration will be ready to fast track affirmative action "doctors" who will be thrilled to get their Gs 12+. This is about the destruction of the current order.

Prepare for the introduction of the "well qualified" list to medical training.

44 posted on 11/25/2008 7:33:01 AM PST by Stentor (b. July 4, 1776 - d. January 20, 2009 sorely missed.)
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To: goldi
Would it be possible for the government to take those closed hospitals under eminent domain? That’s what I’m worried about.

Anything is possible under eminent domain with a Marxist government.

Two words:

Scorched Earth.

45 posted on 11/25/2008 7:40:27 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Stentor

Let’s not forget: the Congress will exempt itself from treatment in the socialized hospitals.

Can you IMAGINE if Teddy Kennedy got his brain tumor or Tim Johnson had his stroke in the UK?


46 posted on 11/25/2008 9:37:53 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: All

(Strong language, violence warning)

Scene at my church for almost two years re: trying to show some Obama’s record and tell them about him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsZpdUUdd3I&feature=related


47 posted on 11/25/2008 9:59:51 AM PST by AliVeritas (Pray, Pray, Pray)
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To: Alex Murphy

I hope you will join me in fervently praying that Catholics become more Catholic.


48 posted on 11/25/2008 12:15:23 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: Mad Dawg; Lorianne
"Seriously, I wonder if the hospitals in question could just quit providing OB-GYN services."

I don't have the whole slate of facts on that, but as I understand it, that's exactly what happened in Ontario and maybe throughout Canada decades ago.

My own OB/GYN here in East Tennessee is a Canadian, used to practice in Ontario but was told he had to get out of his specialty if he would't do abortions. Thatr's why he came down to TN. He told me (years ago) that NO CATHOLIC HOSPITAL in Ontario is allowed to provide gyn services. And they cannot be licensed for matenity.

49 posted on 11/25/2008 12:23:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: AliVeritas

The “ignorant” in this past election are not to be excused.

They were WILFULLY ignorant.


50 posted on 11/25/2008 12:25:53 PM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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