Posted on 11/25/2008 5:48:29 AM PST by jmaroneps37
In April of 2007 the Democrats induced the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA). This bill is exactly the kind of over-reach Pro Lifers predicted would come about. FOCA would compel all hospitals accepting public funds to provide abortion and birth control services to their patients or lose funding. There would be no exceptions for religious based hospitals. It says “Abort or close.” The nation’s Catholic Bishops are studying the close option. Moreover, FOCA would be retroactive. FOCA clearly tells Pro Lifers to shut up and start cutting.
Trouble for Catholic politicians
FOCA is coming back in January. When Catholic Democrats pass FOCA, it will bring about a crisis in the American Roman Catholic Church and American politics as well.
Cannon Law forbids “formal cooperation” with an evil such as abortion. By their vote, Catholic politicians will place themselves outside of the Church and into a state under which they could no longer receive Holy Communion.
This is the train wreck Barack Obama’s Democrats have been trying to avoid by their admittedly centrist appointments thus far. This issue will make one side a winner and one side a loser. The bishops can not back down. The fact that Catholics broke ranks and voted for Obama makes it more, not less, likely that the bishops will excommunicate violators and close Catholic hospitals rather than be forced to provide abortions.
Obama has promised to sign FOCA. The drunk with power Democrats will introduce it. It will be a major turning point in sobering up Catholics and other Pro Lifers who drank Obama’s Kool aid. That rank and file Catholics will be pulled into this fight is also inevitable. The moment this bill hits the floor, any “honeymoon” of good feeling will end and the real fighting will begin. I say bring it on.
(Excerpt) Read more at collinsreport.net ...
This is THE big Good Vs Evil showdown of our lifetime.
“Freedom of Choice” Act - takes away choice based on conscience
“Fairness Doctrine”- censors conservative discussion only
Why do these draconian laws always have such deceptive names? Howe stupid can sheeple be and for how long?
The rest of us need to MEAN business as well and not back down.
People get what the deserve - conservatives have allowed the rinos to destroy the GOP - we remain silent and vote for the liberal rino out of fear - either we start to act and organize or forget about the elections for the next 20 years.
“This is THE big Good Vs Evil showdown of our lifetime.”
The sign of the times would indicate that there is a far worse one coming.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Luk 12:51 Do [you] suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.
Luk 12:52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three.
In the Leftist world, you are always ‘free’ to do what they tell you.
I would think but would have to think it through that the government could not tell a church hospital what to do with respect to issues like this when it involves religious issues. And I suspect this would be a constitutional issue for federal court review. However, sure a government can regulate health standards and minimum training standards for staff and doctors and perhaps mandate an abortion in cases of life or death, but does the fact that a religious hospital accepts federal funds in essence with medicaid/medicare payments and like programs take away any constitutional challenges in federal court? That’s the problem. If they take federal funds, the religious hospital may have a problem.
“Abort or close.”
Evil.
Just plain evil.
The sign of the times would indicate that there is a far worse one coming.
Agreed!
The rest of us need to MEAN business as well and not back down.
_______________________________________
That includes the doctors and nurses who can tell the politicians to do their own killing.
That’s the problem. If they take federal funds, the religious hospital may have a problem.”
Alynsky and Ayers mantra:
Find something that is “normal” and “everyday” in the USA, and do it to the max until the system breaks down.
Registration of “voters” is one example.
If making this retroactive means that lawyers can sue Catholic hospitals for not performing abortions in the past, the financial toll could dwarf the payouts for sexual abuse victims.
The only hope is that the bishops can put enough pressure on the Catholic Democrats in Congress to allow a conscience exception. It would be a disaster for health care and for people working at Catholic hospitals if they all have to close. Of course the media would be on Obama's side and use it as another stick to bash the Catholic Church with, but maybe the public wouldn't buy that line.
“That includes the doctors and nurses who can tell the politicians to do their own killing.”
Let’s pray that they will find the strength and courage to do just that.
Huh?
How does one bifurcate ones convictions from ones core beliefs? This equates to finding abortion abhorrent, but voting for those who perpetuate it. Still, they see no moral conflict.
Don’t take the federal funds.
As long as you do they call the tunes. Schools do the same thing.
Kick out the feds and you can do what you want.
The Backlash begins in earnest once the Democrats pass FOCA. This act is far beyond what the large majority of Americans support. It seems ridiculous to me that so many of our fellow citizens do not know what the Democrats are all about. FOCA will make it clear to them.
The Backlash = dozens of Henry Bowmans?
Many catholics who vote left do not attend mass regularly
They do not have any opportunity to receive instruction on moral issues
They “make up their own minds” on matters of conscience and church doctrine
But hey- they get baptized married and buried by the same clergy in the facilities that the faithful support with our time and money
Even in my DD’s catholic school she was one of the FEW kids (maybe the only one) who even knew about Obama and the Born Alive Protection Act he vetoed 2 times, and about FOCA
It was UTTERLY clear to anyone who cared to look
that this election was about good and evil,
and look what the majority chose!
First Rule of Socialism: Any nation with the words “Democratic” or “Republic” in the name is neither.
Second Rule of Socialism: “Freedom” means that you do as you are told.
If you take the King’s coin, you must dance to the King’s tune.
That is why the continuing creep of Federal responsibility for everything is such a negative development. It gives the government the power to coerce people in all areas, great and small.
People will put up with almost anything rather than give up that free government cheese.
that means turning away MEDICARE and MEDICAID patients from facilities that may be the only ones located to serve those populations
It means teaching hospitals like Georgetown get no govt funded research grants, accept no patients using govt-paid insurance, no govt grants to buy special equipment or hire specialized faculty and staff, no govt grants or aid to reduce the costs to patients of medications etc
It is not so easy as you say to deny someone what the feds are out to make a “civil right” (abortion as a “civil right”) Call abortion a “civil right” and the guilty liberals wring their hands over denying it to anyone
We cannot give up. We better stay prayed up and we need to pray that God frustrates the passage of this so that it dies out. We might be getting some callouses on our knees! We protestant have to stand with the Catholics and force the left to retreat.
It’s easy for me to say that. It might involve a job change and that is going to take a lot of courage on their part.
I say BRING IT ON! Let those CINO politicians declare themselves for the world to see and let the HRCC declare itself loudly and vocally and shut down hospitals if necessary. As it stands now no one pays attention to their politicians votes and they operate in an almost stealth atmosphere except for people who are politically aware. Perhaps when the CINOs see their hospitals closing they finally get the message.
Actually, there may be some ways to still practice medicine for them. As for the rest of us, IF this is to happen, we MUST be willing to help them in any way necessary.
I hope the bishops padlock the doors of every one of their hospitals the day this takes effect. Time for some Alinsky tactics on the Right.
I would consider it an honor to die unattended in the parking lot of a Catholic hospital that has closed its doors rather than bow to this cult of Moloch.
How are Catholic hospitals going to avoid taking federal funds? They would have to refuse anyone on Medicaid and Medicare, and this would contradict the mission of Catholic hospitals, known for their outstanding service to the poor, the vulnerable, and otherwise underprivileged. If they accept only patients on private insurance—those who are gainfully employed—then they are not practicing what they preach.
We are living in strange times.
Congress should stop giving money to any hospital, since that spending violates the 10th Amendment.
Very hard to do with Medicare and Medicaid entrenched as major players in health care finance. Absolutely impossible if we get socialized medicine ("single payer" mandatory govt. health insurance) which is what the Left really wants (and will push for under the Obama admin.).
I am not Catholic, nor is abortion my hot-button issue, but this crap goes WAY too far. It is one thing to provide funding (which is bad enough, IMHO - you want an abortion, pay for it yourself or with your insurance money), quite another to REQUIRE hospitals founded by religious organizations (and with their money) to do things that are 100% in opposition to their beliefs.
I hope that some of the CINOs that voted for this abortionist and his minions in Congress get a SEVERE case of buyer’s remorse.
Speaking as a Jew, abortion is OK to preserve the life of the mother, otherwise it is forbidden (G-d says, “...choose life.”). This ticks me off...though it won’t change my votes in the future, as I didn’t vote for this immoral dufus in the first place.
Oh, and irony of ironies, the abortionists claim to be for “freedom of choice” (and the vast majority of them claim the same thing with regard to sexuality and “gay marriage”) - but that freedom ends, in their view, the moment that I want to purchase a firearm. Hypocritical, tyrannical sonsabitches, the lot of them.
How quaint. You think the 10th Amendment actually means something...
L
DITTOES to that!
The 10th Amendment should mean something. More conservatives should email or call their congressmen and ask why that amendment isn’t obeyed. My congressman, Mark Kirk (a RINO), supports increased spending for education, commuter trains, local police depts. I emailed him, three times, and asked why he wants to disobey the Constitution. I didn’t receive a response.
All valid points.
Your last option is to close. If the feds want to offer care let them.
I do not think it is easy nor is it desirable for the catholic hospitals to close. But neither is it easy or desirable to allow themselves to be forced to commit murder.
If dancing with the devil is the only choice left, you sit it out. And you make damn sure people know why you are doing so.
To do otherwise is to give up any claim to moral authority.
People say that all the time....but I don't think it's remotely accurate.
I could give you hundreds of examples....but I'm sure you can think of some yourself.
FRegards-
I was referring to more of a political backlash.
Rubbish. Most of the “Catholics” who voted for Obama could not care less about abortion. If they didn’t heed the bishops before the election, why will they care now?
Now that the Church has gone public so forefully Could you Please explain this story to me?
Catholic Campaign for Human Development Has Given ACORN $7 Million
by Phyllis Schlafly
11/11/2008 Print This
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Do you wonder why 2008 election data shows that the majority of Catholics voted for Barack Obama even though his record as Illinois state senator proves him the most pro-abortion candidate who ever ran for president?
Perhaps one answer is that on the Sunday before Thanksgiving, millions of Catholics will again be putting in their church’s collection plate their annual donation to what the pre-printed envelope calls “Campaign for Human Development: The Catholic Church working to end poverty and injustice in America; We’ll turn your dollars into hope for the poor of our nation.”
The generous Catholics who respond to that well-phrased appeal probably think they are making a Good Samaritan gift to provide necessaries to the down-and-out. Most would probably be shocked to learn that the money donated to the Campaign for Human Development (CHD) does not go for charity but for radical Obama-style community organizing.
Over the last 10 years, CHD has given $7.3 million of Catholic-donated dollars to the Saul Alinsky-style group called ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now). When in 1998 some Catholics complained that CHD grants were not used for Catholic charity but were actually funding groups opposed to church teachings, CHD changed its name to Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD).
The name change did not redirect the flow of money. In 2007 alone, CCHD increased its support of ACORN, giving it 37 grants totaling $1,037,000.
Continued>>>> http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29441
The federal funding for the indigent is nigh impossible to turn their backs on. 40-50 years ago, Catholic hospitals were staffed with nursing sisters who did their work for God and not mammon, and the hospital did not need government money. The liberalization of the Church resulted in fewer vocations. You can hardly find a nun in a Catholic hospital any more. The Church is reaping what her radicals have sown.
Maybe Congress isn't sending police to places of worship to prevent people from assembling there, but if they pass this they are telling any doctor, nurse, or hospital employee to choose between their religious beliefs and unemployment, in some cases destitution.
And for what? They can't actually force a pro-life doctor to perform an abortion...all they can do is prevent him from practicing medicine. No one benefits, but it pleases the fanatics on the pro-abortion side to take this extreme stand.
I think we need to start a thread on which to collect examples of Newspeak as perpetrated by Obama and his minions:
‘Freedom of Choice Act’ as a name for a bill which denies healthcare providers the choice of not performing abortions is an outstanding example.
‘Employee Free Choice Act’ for a bill that would deny secret ballots in unionization votes is another.
The election of Obama certainly validated “Ignorance is strength!”
Law with names like that seem to be a bit start on “Freedom is slavery!”
If the pattern keeps up, a lot of Obama’s stary-eyed peacnik supporters will be really dissapointes when “War is peace!” kicks in.
Pro-Life PING
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ONE NATION UNDER GOD
I’m not so sure that the FOCA showdown will have any impact on CINO’s who voted for Obama. I am of the belief that the majority of them have pretty much sold out to Satan and could give a flying frog whether they are complicit in the murder of babies. I hope I’m wrong, but the CINO’s I know who voted for Obama already believe in abortion, they are that far gone.
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