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Religious Leaders: Churches Should be ‘Nonjudgmental’ about Behavior That Transmits HIV
CNSNews ^ | November 26, 2008 | Pete Winn

Posted on 11/26/2008 6:20:12 PM PST by Mr. Mojo

(CNSNews.com) – Religious leaders and AIDS activists told CNSNNews.com Tuesday that labeling sex outside of marriage as sinful or having multiple partners as immoral behavior is “biased” – something society has “moved beyond.”

At a telephone news conference in advance of World AIDS Day, AIDS activist groups and representatives of various religious groups said that counseling teens and others to be abstinent and restricting sex to marriage just isn’t “realistic,” and called on churches and the incoming Obama administration to deal with HIV/AIDS in a “truthful” and “medically accurate way.”

The Rev. Michael Schuenemeyer, executive for health and wholeness advocacy in the national offices of the United Church of Christ, said the church should be “nonjudgmental” when it comes to HIV/AIDS – and cited a recent workshop he attended as an example of how the Church should act.

“The young people in that workshop were so grateful that faith leaders were willing to be real with them, create a safe space for them to ask questions – to share their views, experiences and ideas, and to provide them with value-based, medically accurate information, along with the tools for making healthy and responsible decisions,” he said.

The religious leader called on churches and “faith perspectives” not to engage in what he called “stigma” and “discrimination” – and appealed to Christian tradition to make his point.

“(Jesus) sent his disciples out to heal the sick, and he encouraged people of faith to be alert and ready, saying, ‘If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into,’” Schuenemeyer said.

“In terms of HIV, we already know how HIV breaks into the body and robs the immune system of its capacity to respond to disease,” he added. “But too many people, young and old, are not effectively prepared with the information and tools they need to prevent an infection.”

But Schuenemeyer balked when CNSNews.com asked why religious groups shouldn’t label risky behavior the way religion has traditionally regarded it -- as immoral.

------------------- (TRANSCRIPT)

CNSNews.com: Let me ask you this: Outside of medical accidents -- like blood transfusions or children born to HIV-positive mothers -- is it possible for an unmarried person to contract HIV without basically someone committing an immoral act?

Rev. Michael Schuenemeyer, United Church of Christ: I think your question exemplifies why we are struggling with stigma and discrimination in our culture, because it betrays a bias about what is moral and immoral. So, I think we’ need to take a public health approach; we need to be nonjudgmental when we speak to people and we need to make sure people have accurate information.

Stigma and discrimination keeps people from getting the information that they need. It’s often fear-based. And when people are faced with judgment they don’t get what they need to respond effectively. So I think we need to take much more of a public health approach for their concern.

It’s not about whether people are engaging in moral or immoral acts, that’s a personal judgment that is being made. It’s about realizing what behaviors cause transmission and preventing those behaviors.

CNSNews.com: Isn’t ‘having multiple partners’ one of the major causes or routes for acquiring HIV, and doesn’t your religion label that as promiscuity or immorality? Shouldn’t religions counsel against sexual immorality?

Rev. Schuenemeyer: (No response.)

--------------

Ruth Messinger, president of American Jewish World Service, did proffer an answer, and acknowledged that CNSNews.com’s questions weren’t “inappropriate” – but nevertheless dismissed them.

“None of that has anything to do with what, as far as I know, all of the world’s religions share -- and that is to meet the needs of the people in any form of economic and physical distress for any reason,” Messinger told CNSNews.com.

Messinger said labeling behavior as sinful was “an issue back in the history of HIV/AIDS in America” – way back in the early ‘80s.

“There was an early effort in this country to sort of suggest that how you contracted the virus would determine whether or not you got treatment -- and where,” she said.

“I think all secular groups, all service organizations, and all religious organizations have moved beyond that,” she added.

According to the federal Centers for Disease Control, in 2005, in the United States, 73 percent of new infections occurred in males -- 45 percent were in blacks and 53 percent were in men who have sex with men (MSM).

In 2006, a more detailed analysis found that 72 percent of the HIV infections among men occurred in MSM -- men who have homosexual sex.

Among females, the predominant HIV transmission category was high-risk heterosexual contact, which accounted for 80 percent of new infections among women.

Having sex with husbands and boyfriends who had had sex with men -- or women themselves having sex with multiple partners -- accounted for the overwhelming number of new HIV infections among women.

World AIDS Day is Dec. 1.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; michaelschuenemeyer; moralabsolutes; moralrelativism; publichealth; religiousleft; ruthmessinger; schuenemeyer; sin; ucc; unitedchurchofchrist
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1 posted on 11/26/2008 6:20:12 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo

I wonder what *religion* this would be? The religion of moral relativism?


2 posted on 11/26/2008 6:24:28 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified DeCartes))
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To: Mr. Mojo
Religious leaders and AIDS activists told CNSNNews.com Tuesday that labeling sex outside of marriage as sinful or having multiple partners as immoral behavior is “biased” – something society has “moved beyond.”

Religious leaders?? No. Followers of the secular and profane.

3 posted on 11/26/2008 6:25:33 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

And we should also be non-judmental about behavior that leads to drunk driving deaths, I suppose.


4 posted on 11/26/2008 6:25:39 PM PST by Notwithstanding (Obama/Biden: the "O" stands for Zero Executive Experience & Zero Accomplishments)
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To: Mr. Mojo

“because it betrays a bias about what is moral and immoralA”

Bias based completely on the BIBLE....reverend (small case intended)


5 posted on 11/26/2008 6:26:44 PM PST by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: Mr. Mojo

I don’t say it is sinful, God does. Who am I to disagree with, God.


6 posted on 11/26/2008 6:27:58 PM PST by the_daug
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To: Mr. Mojo
...it betrays a bias about what is moral and immoral...silly, even for a church leader - it says that any time one makes a moral judgment, one is practicing "bias" - surely this guy wouldn't resist the idea that murder is immoral, to take an obvious example, yet by his standards this would be a biased opinion - what he's really objecting to is that people make moral judgments about sexuality, which he wants to avoid.......
7 posted on 11/26/2008 6:28:25 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Mr. Mojo
WWJD?

“None of that has anything to do with what, as far as I know, all of the world’s religions share -- and that is to meet the needs of the people in any form of economic and physical distress for any reason,” Messinger told CNSNews.com.

Would He take this advice, or would He still say, "Go forth and sin no more?" [Rhetorical question. I believe I know the answer. This article suggests a different answer, from a perspective that claims to be Jewish. One of us is wrong.]

8 posted on 11/26/2008 6:28:53 PM PST by MathDoc (War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Obama is Good.)
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To: Notwithstanding

How about they be non judgemental on someone’s carbon footprint?

They would consider driving an SUV or Christmas tree lights immoral.


9 posted on 11/26/2008 6:30:23 PM PST by klamath ("Forced benevolence never was charity")
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To: Mr. Mojo

Oh, yeah. I forgot the part about “If you are neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out.”


10 posted on 11/26/2008 6:31:02 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: RobinOfKingston
...sex outside of marriage as sinful or having multiple partners as immoral behavior is “biased” – something society has “moved beyond.”

Some of society, but hardly all, and definitely not God have "moved beyond".

11 posted on 11/26/2008 6:31:16 PM PST by YellowRoseofTx (Evil is not the opposite of God; it's the absence of God)
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To: Mr. Mojo
The Rev. Michael Schuenemeyer

Advocate for the Harlot.

12 posted on 11/26/2008 6:33:18 PM PST by A message
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To: Mr. Mojo

http://www.worldaidsday.org/


13 posted on 11/26/2008 6:33:21 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Mr. Mojo

The goats are bleating.


14 posted on 11/26/2008 6:34:29 PM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Mr. Mojo

“The Rev. Michael Schuenemeyer, executive for health and wholeness advocacy in the national offices of the United Church of Christ, said the church should be “nonjudgmental” when it comes to HIV/AIDS – and cited a recent workshop he attended as an example of how the Church should act.”

His church can be as non-judgmental as it wants. Trouble is, all evidence is that God is not as hip and with-it as the good reverend is. In any event, churches, properly constituted, are not judgmental. They are just passing on the word of the One who is.


15 posted on 11/26/2008 6:35:35 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: All

The Rev. Michael Schuenemeyer, executive for health and wholeness advocacy in the national offices of the United Church of Christ.

Proper punctuation would be-
The “Rev.” Michael Schuenemeyer, executive for “health” and “wholeness” advocacy in the national offices of the United “Church” of Christ.


16 posted on 11/26/2008 6:35:37 PM PST by Jonah Johansen ("Coming soon to a neighborhood near you")
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To: Mr. Mojo
How dare anyone pass judgment on the walking dead that want to infect your children!

/s for the sarcasm impaired.

17 posted on 11/26/2008 6:40:40 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (I will stand with the Muslims ~B Hussein Obomunist ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Verito Possumus~Verified Sleeper!)
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To: SumProVita
I wonder what *religion* this would be? The religion of moral relativism?

If you want to you can stick a feather in its hat and call it macaronie. Whatever, it ain't the Law & Gospel taught by Jesus Christ. sin is real and it isn't "judgmental" to admonish sinners, it is tough Christian love.

Of course the UCC left the old-fashioned Jesus behind years ago, and this Jewish outfit quoted, who knows what the hell they believe in. It isn't Yahweh, that's for sure.

18 posted on 11/26/2008 6:45:21 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Mr. Mojo

I remember reading a few years ago a book by (iirc) Marvin Olasky about the history of charitable work in this country. Originally, charitable work and welfare were performed by religious groups and other private groups who made no bones about wanting people to turn their backs on their destructive behavior as a price for accessing their offers for benefits. (Even Christ, in talking to the woman taken in adultery, told her to go her way and sin no more.) But then as government took over, the benefits were decoupled from expectations of self-improvements except in a very minimal way. Today it is politically incorrect to tell people their life choices are evil, destructive, unhealthy or immoral. Now, apparently, people want private charity work to mirror that “non-judgmental” attitude of government welfare. Too bad. I view the immorality as more seriously detrimental to the long-term health of the person’s soul than the HIV infection itself.


19 posted on 11/26/2008 6:45:43 PM PST by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: Mr. Mojo; All
(CNSNews.com) – Religious leaders and AIDS activists told CNSNNews.com Tuesday that labeling sex outside of marriage as sinful or having multiple partners as immoral behavior is “biased” – something society has “moved beyond.”

Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing! This is not what Jesus taught us about those who are sexually immoral.

If these "religious leaders" would take the cellophane off of their Holy Bibles, they would find out that not only does Matthew 18:15-17 show us that Jesus commanded that a congregation is ultimately not to associate with unrepentant sinners, but 1 Corinthians 5 shows that Paul wrote for that congregation to expel a *sexual* offender.

20 posted on 11/26/2008 6:46:19 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: SumProVita

UCC... hmm... that sounds familiar...

oh yeah! The “church” that the Buttock family attended for 20 years!


21 posted on 11/26/2008 6:48:50 PM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: Mr. Mojo
(CNSNews.com) – Religious leaders and AIDS activists told CNSNNews.com Tuesday that labeling sex outside of marriage as sinful or having multiple partners as immoral behavior is “biased” – something society has “moved beyond.”

The Lord says: Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. Try getting past that on Judgment Day, bozos!

22 posted on 11/26/2008 6:50:57 PM PST by pray4liberty (Always vote for life!)
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To: SumProVita

Sounded like Unitarian BS but I didn’t find the word in a search...


23 posted on 11/26/2008 6:52:14 PM PST by Axenolith (Government blows and that which governs least blows least...)
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To: Mr. Mojo
I can't leave this damnable post.

Rev. Michael Schuenemeyer, United Church of Christ: I think your question exemplifies why we are struggling with stigma and discrimination in our culture, because it betrays a bias about what is moral and immoral.

If he can't find some guidance in the Bible, "Rev" schuenemeyer needs to spend some quality time with Plato's Republic.

24 posted on 11/26/2008 6:54:08 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: Amendment10

Where is the “Go and Sin no more” passage from these clergymen?


25 posted on 11/26/2008 6:54:20 PM PST by moonman
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To: lightman

Time to weigh-in, Rev...


26 posted on 11/26/2008 6:54:36 PM PST by gourmand (chances)
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To: Amendment10
Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing! This is not what Jesus taught us about those who are sexually immoral.

Guess they never read this!

But people who are cowardly, unfaithful, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars will find themselves in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death. Revelation 21:18

27 posted on 11/26/2008 6:58:55 PM PST by pray4liberty (Always vote for life!)
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To: SumProVita

> I wonder what *religion* this would be? The religion of moral relativism?

Liberalism.


28 posted on 11/26/2008 7:08:04 PM PST by Ozob
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To: Mr. Mojo
labeling sex outside of marriage as sinful or having multiple partners as immoral behavior is “biased” – something society has “moved beyond.”

They're calling me biased...I thought society had "moved beyond" judging people like that...

29 posted on 11/26/2008 7:11:14 PM PST by Onelifetogive (I'm gonna drop talk radio in favor of some audio books. Gotta lower my blood pressure.)
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To: Onelifetogive

I think the preacher there is a queer. Whacha’ think?!


30 posted on 11/26/2008 7:16:38 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Mr. Mojo
I just have to reply with this scripture:

Matthew 7:21-23
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
31 posted on 11/26/2008 7:23:26 PM PST by LuxMaker (The Constitution is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, Thomas J 1819)
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To: Mr. Mojo
It that sort of behavior is normal then the consequences of that behavior should be normal too.
No need to spend millions on a cure for a normal consequence for a normal behavior.
32 posted on 11/26/2008 7:25:52 PM PST by The Brush
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To: LuxMaker
Also another good scripture:

I Corinthians 6:9-11
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
33 posted on 11/26/2008 7:26:07 PM PST by LuxMaker (The Constitution is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, Thomas J 1819)
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To: Mr. Mojo

So according to our enlightened progressives, harmful behavior isn’t harmful if you don’t acknowledge that it is harmful. What lunacy.


34 posted on 11/26/2008 7:33:51 PM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

By being “nonjudgemental” and “being real”, people are till dying from a disease we knew how to stop 25 years ago.

More people die from cancer, and they get it even without direct actions that will cause it.

After 25 years, and bazillions of dollars, concerts, and free condoms, why do we even need to deal with this anymore? It’s a politically correct disease and untouchable.
And 100% preventable.

Time to put our resources into other diseases that affect more people.

Time to move on.


35 posted on 11/26/2008 7:39:41 PM PST by exit82 (It's all Obama's fault. And Biden is still a moron. They are both above their paygrade.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

more propaganda to remove the distinction between right/wrong, good/evil, moral/immoral, male/female and straight/gay.

These atheists in drag would be happy to destroy anything our society has built no matter how long it has existed.


36 posted on 11/26/2008 7:50:09 PM PST by bpjam (Any people wonder how so many German stood by while Hitler did what he did?)
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To: Mr. Mojo

The good Sisters of Providence would straighten out the Rev and his Church of Christ in no time.


37 posted on 11/26/2008 8:32:12 PM PST by onehipdad (A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.)
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To: moonman
Where is the “Go and Sin no more” passage from these clergymen?

Good point! Words by Jesus himself too.

38 posted on 11/26/2008 8:37:39 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: Mr. Mojo

Here’s a question: when you determine that someone is “biased” or “judgmental,” isn’t that conclusion based on your own biases and (gasp!) judgment? What am I saying? These are people who hate haters and are intolerant of the intolerant and can’t fathom why people are laughing at them when they advocate such things.


39 posted on 11/26/2008 8:46:22 PM PST by Reaganesque
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To: Mr. Mojo

The false church continues its march to hell. And trying to grab recruits on the way.


40 posted on 11/26/2008 8:57:23 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Reaganesque

Their logic is this:

If you say anything bad about people or what they do, you are being negative and hurtful. You must be coming from the angle of hate and disunity.

The second plank of their logic is this: anyone saying good things about people and whatever they do ARE good. They must be supported. They are bringing unity and love to others.

The third plank is opposing and ridiculing, demonizing, ignoring anyone who is critical of others. Particularly when it comes to beliefs or groups of the liberal worldview.


41 posted on 11/26/2008 9:02:40 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

You have go to be kidding!!!


42 posted on 11/26/2008 9:11:06 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Until I saw the name, I thought this was a real church!


43 posted on 11/26/2008 10:13:29 PM PST by tumblindice (____ al Obama and the Arabian he rode in on)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Maybe the Episcopal church turns a blind eye to lewd immoral disgusting behavior but most churches preach morals/
Most who get aids get it though anal sex or dirty needles.
OH, but it’s ok, we wouldn’t want you to have poor self esteem if you behave like an animal.


44 posted on 11/27/2008 4:24:19 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Mr. Mojo

The Great Falling Away is kicking into high gear.


45 posted on 11/27/2008 6:36:34 AM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Mr. Mojo
These "religious" folks are trying to link the treatment of HIV with moral precepts taught in the Scriptures.

It is a two-pronged attack - first, to shame you into supporting funding for HIV (do you need to be shamed?), and secondly, to set up social mores which are contrary to Jewish and Christian moral teaching (hypocrites, all of you!).

This is liberal Christianity, and pure social gospel, without the real Gospel. It wants to celebrate sin for the sake of not being hypocritical or judgmental.

46 posted on 11/27/2008 9:22:43 AM PST by HondaCRF450
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To: Mr. Mojo
[The religious leader called on churches and “faith perspectives” not to engage in what he called “stigma” and “discrimination” – and appealed to Christian tradition to make his point.]
 
 
 
Rainbow doctrine now invokes the term "Christ Centered" - i.e.: if a person rejects homosexual behavior they are not "Christ Centered".
 
In that usage, "Christ Centered" is Rainbow Newspeak for 'Praised be He who permits the forbidden.'  (Sevi Shabbatai) which later emerged as "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" (Aleister Crowley, the founder of modern Satanism).
 
The doctrine is Satanic, not Christian; but the way in which it's being presented is very clever - as one would expect from the masquerading "angel" of light.
 
 
This is how the two opposing doctrines can be distinguished:
 
Rainbow / Satanic doctrine is all about worshiping and indulging the self.
 
 
Christian Doctrine is about worshiping God and sacrificing the self - being reborn daily via Christ's sacrifice.
 
Not the same at all.
 
 
 

47 posted on 11/27/2008 9:46:43 AM PST by LomanBill (A bird flies because the right wing opposes the left.)
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To: HondaCRF450

>>This is liberal Christianity

It’s Satanic doctrine in sheep’s clothing.

‘Praised be He who permits the forbidden.’

Not!


48 posted on 11/27/2008 9:49:18 AM PST by LomanBill (A bird flies because the right wing opposes the left.)
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To: LomanBill

Call it what you will...


49 posted on 11/27/2008 9:51:41 AM PST by HondaCRF450
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To: HondaCRF450; Carry_Okie

>>Call it what you will...

It’s useful to understand the historical nature of the behavior.

It’s the same false-messianic message delivered by Shabbatai Sevi in the 1600’s... and Aleister Crowley 200 years later.


50 posted on 11/27/2008 10:01:42 AM PST by LomanBill (A bird flies because the right wing opposes the left.)
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