Chasm dividing Americans over birth certificate widens

WND ^ | November 28, 2008

[ckilmer]

The chasm between those who want President-elect Barack Obama to produce his birth certificate to verify his eligibility to hold the nation's highest office and those who simply support the Democrat is widening.

"The Constitution means what we today decide it means," opined one participant on a new WND forum that offers readers an opportunity to express their opinion on the birth certificate dispute.

[savedbygrace]

It isn’t timely until after the Electoral College votes, and Obama becomes President elect. Until then, the 20th Amendment doesn’t apply. There is no Constitutional authority to knock him out of the office until he is President elect. None.

If he committed fraud to gain the Dim nomination, then he theoretically could be impeached, but that would only be operative after he becomes President. Fat chance Pelosi would allow it in the coming session of Congress.

So, the time for the USSC to rule is between Dec 15 and Jan 20. That’s the window. Before 12/15 and it’s not timely. After Jan 20th and the Court has no authority over the matter of qualification.

[blackbart.223]

Things got a little heated last night and quite few people said things they should not have. Me included. For some reason I don't like being called a coward. However, I did get out of line and I am sorry about it.

Bart.

[TheThinker]

Perhaps Obama will be seated as president but what has to happen is that this issue of what natural born citizenship means and how it applies to presidential candidates must go forward in order to avoid this problem in the future. This fight has to go forward not only to challenge Obama's eligibility but more importantly to serve the Constitution so we don't have a string of presidents who are actually ineligible as the founders envisioned. I think you would agree with me.

It appears to be a very complicated process but worth it. There are many on FR who would rather not even try to define natural born citizenship but avoiding this fight really is disrespectful to all those who fought for this country and died specifically for the survival of America and its Constitution. To let this issue die would be such a betrayal. Sure, we all have to live together but we all have to live by the law and be judged equally by it.

[ckilmer]

A detroit radio station called the Kenyan embassy after the election of Obama. After a a few minutes they get through to the ambassador of Kenya.

The ambassador of Kenya says that obama was born in Kenya and that his birth place has become a national shrine.

Listen to the recording here

The quote is around 12:35, so if you don’t have time to listen to the whole thing, you can jump ahead.
The transcript reads:

Radio Jockey: President elect Obama's birth place over in Kenya -- is that going to be a national spot where he was born

Ambassador Peter Ogego: its already an attraction. his paternal grandmother is still alive

Radio Jockey:But his birth place...they'll put up a marker there

Ambassdor Peter Ogego: It would depend on the government. Its already well known.

Here is an abridged Utube version of the the radio interview. So you can hear just the relevant parts.

It can be reasonably pointed out that the DJ was trying to entrap the Ambassador and that the Ambassador fell into his trap.
However, if you listen to the long version of the radio interview --you’ll notice he used the same strategy on two different occasions and the ambassador gently brushed him off.

First, he tried to force the ambassador to sing the Kenyan national anthem. The ambassador referred him to the kenyan website.

Second he tried to push the ambassador into saying something about maybe Kenya becoming the 51st state. Again the ambassador said that Kenya was a sovereign country. ie No.

He used the same technique on the question of Obama’s birth place. This time the ambassador said yes.

Because the ambassador answered no in the two previous examples -- you can't say that the ambassdor was either a fool or ill advised.

Finally, you might ask well doesn't he know that saying Obama is born in Kenya would make trouble for Obama? The answer there is why should he be concerned? He has heard no suggestion in the mainstream media that there might be a problem there. So to say what is already well known--as he says--would be no problem.

Here is a utube video of Ambassador Peter Ogego speaking at a conference. Ambassador of Kenya H.E. Peter Ogego To verify that the voice on the radio is Ambassador Ogego-- compare the radio voice with the DJ to the voice on the Utube that goes with Ambassador Ogego. Ambassador Peter Ogego is introduced a bit after minute 18..

They are the same.


Subsequently, the Kenyan ambassador said that he meant Obama's father was born in Kenya. However, when pressed about Obama's birth place:

"I don't know," he said with a tone of irritation. "You should ask your government. I know his father is Kenyan."

However, that's not what the original transcript suggests. Further, here is a video of Obama's grandmother saying that Obama is born in Kenya


The Arnold would have run for president long ago and likely won if he were a "natural born" american. He's not. He's naturalized. So he can't run. And he knows it. (though there were some trial balloons sent up a couple years back about changing the law--that went nowhere.)

Like the Arnold, Obama looks to be a naturalized citizen--but maybe he's not even that.

In any case the supreme court--at Justice Thomas instigation-- is taking up the issue Dec 5

[blackbart.223]

"What the hell? I stand up and take the criticism like a man, apologize for any misbehavior, and you want to piss on me?"

I don't want to start this again. I was out of line but you were as well. The fact is we shouldn't fighting each other. That's what the left wants after all.

Bart.

[EDINVA]

If the SCOTUS decides on 12/5 to take up the matter, they could simply require Obama to produce an authentic birth certificate by a date certain. It would then be available within the window of which you write.

Frankly, I don’t see getting the 4 votes necessary, but all 9 justices, regardless of political persuasion, should have an interest in whether the winner of the general election for President of the United states has the basic qualifications to serve.

All Obama has to do is produce an authentic birth certificate, not COLB, and the matter is closed, assuming he was borh in HI.

[BooBoo1000]

He is hoping to stall long enough for the Electoral College to meet and elect him president, and in his way of thinking he will be bullet proof.

[blackbart.223]

Thanks for the post. This is stuff I know about already. What amazes me is most of the public doesn’t know or even seems to care.

[Windflier]

Who's them?

Re-read my post to you.

[Windflier]

Agreed.

Peace...

[blackbart.223]

We will start off on a better foot next time.

[Windflier]

Some posts are so well rendered, and contain so many excellent points, that they're something like a smorgasbord. You feel compelled to come back and comment a second time.

Your post reads more like an article, and it deserves further comment. From your post:

[[[ "All that is really (most) relevant here is that he must be a natural born US citizen to Constitutionally qualified to be POTUS, the documentation should be provided (by court order, if need be) to prove that status or lack thereof.

If he lacks being a Natural Born Citizen, he is Constitutionally ineligible to be POTUS--all quibbling aside about exactly what that takes to be a Natural Born Citizen.

Donofrio's case, also questioning McCain's status, does two things by so doing.

First, it makes both candidates subject to the same level of Constitutional scrutiny as to eligibility, and second, removes the question of sheer partisan politics or racism, making the whole substantiative issue one of Constitutional eligibility." ]]]

Donofrio's case is by far the safest path for the SC to uncover the truth, because it removes the pall (however undeserved) of political partisanship or favoritism. The Natural Born Citizen bona fides of at least three candidates on the 2008 ballot are in question in Donofrio's suit.

We all remember how the SC was roundly criticized by the left for "selecting" George Bush in the 2000 election, though they did no such thing. Donofrio shrewdly, and rightly, questioned the constitutional qualifications of the Democrat, the Republican, and the foreign Commie. The air cover that provides should at least alleviate any reluctance on the SC's part to re-visit another election debacle.

There is still a lingering question in some people's minds about whether the Justices will want to touch this hot potato, even with political air cover. I'm not a legal scholar of any sort, but from what I've read about the legal construction of this case, and the clear existence of a constitutional question of great importance, I think they'll take it.

December 5th can't get here fast enough for me.

[Aurorales]

I make good points to argue yours and you ignore them.

You have cherry picked at my comments to you and wrote info on them that had nothing to do with the initial argument.

Finally when you can’t come up with an argument you write some wishy washy words about how this court stuff will go nowhere, but that you agree Obama is in the wrong.

I pray to God everyday about this issue. I do not believe you have the God playbook on this anymore than I do.
In other words you have no idea how this all will play out.

And for the last time, I will use my right to bear arms if I feel I need to protect myself, my family, my property and if need be my Nation.

[Aurorales]

Apology accepted. I know you did not target your posts at me.

I get a little heated when I am up late at night as well.
This whole nightmare is so upsetting that I can’t see how we could keep all this light and friendly.

[blackbart.223]

"I get a little heated when I am up late at night as well. This whole nightmare is so upsetting that I can’t see how we could keep all this light and friendly."

I patched it up with windflier. Hope I spelled that correctly. Any way we don't need to be fighting with each other. There are bigger fish to fry.

Bart.

[fightinJAG]

One time ping to all who may be interested in this development:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2140156/posts?page=1

[Lumper20]

Good point.

[Windflier]

Bart’s alright. We’ve gotten past things now.

[fightinJAG]

I agree with you that this area of the law needs to be more settled.

We are living in a day and age of unprecedented mobility and serial relationships-—and many other things that guarantee that in the future we need a better way to determine and settle and challenge the eligibility of a person who will be President.

This the perfect case for the Supreme Court to take, since both major party candidates have unusual fact patterns re their citizenship status. Although the only one actually at issue is Obama (because he won), the Court could give guidance in dicta on McCain’s situation. That would be very helpful.

And we need the Court to tell us how this matter can be raised, by whom it can be raised and where, and how it gets remedied if need be.

[Doofer]

Who's them?

Re-read my post to you.

Once you've done that, write to your elected representatives and inform them that it's their constitutional duty to demand all of the facts regarding Obama's "natural born citizen" bona fides.

In my case that would be Senator's Durban and I believe still Obama along with Represenitive Jesse Jackson, Jr. and they'll just file any letter I write to them here.