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Chasm dividing Americans over birth certificate widens
WND ^ | November 28, 2008

Posted on 11/28/2008 9:00:33 PM PST by ckilmer

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To: Windflier

They seem to think that they can simply get a judge to overrule the Constitutional “natural born citizen” requirement. Geeeez....


A lot of judges these days are activist judges so it may go to the SCOTUS. I don’t think they can replace the supremes fast enough on the SCOTUS. Someone mentioned what FDR did, which was to appoint more judges than just 9. Add 4 or 5 more and he can do what he wants. Strangely this is legal, though it would cause an uproar if he did it.


151 posted on 11/29/2008 12:31:55 AM PST by Sharrukin
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To: John Leland 1789

We know you meant 2 Million in the armed forces.

Well, I agree. The Federal government needs to remain afraid of a gun-owning population, and for right, Constitutional reasons.
~~~
Aw Krap!!!,,,LMAO!,,,Need typin’ help Too,,,;0)


152 posted on 11/29/2008 12:33:58 AM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Sharrukin
I agree... and there will be a number of highly trained and highly motivated Patriots available if the worst happens... and these people know the tactics and know the weaknesses. These are the very people that have won in Iraq.

GOD so loved America that HE gifted our Founders with skills and insight not within men. I know he will grant us what we need if we do not turn out hearts from him.

I fear for our future... and I do not want to fight or watch my Nation descend into zimbabwe... but I will answer the call if the time comes. I am not very young... but I am of sound mind and body and I am well prepared. Perhaps with the right leadership, we will persevere. Whenever I feel despair, I read Washington's writings about a certain icy morning... ill equipped troops... an iced over river and superior British troops awaiting. GOD had his hand in that and he will not forsake those that do not forsake him.

I am no hero or badass... I am nothing... nobody... but I am American and I know what it means to be one.

LLS

153 posted on 11/29/2008 12:37:02 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims! I am an UMA-unity my a$$)
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To: Sharrukin
"A lot of judges these days are activist judges so it may go to the SCOTUS. I don’t think they can replace the supremes fast enough on the SCOTUS. Someone mentioned what FDR did, which was to appoint more judges than just 9. Add 4 or 5 more and he can do what he wants. Strangely this is legal, though it would cause an uproar if he did it."

FDR stacked The Supreme Court. Obama is now in a position to do the same. I have no doubt he will. By the way this is not defeatist as some have claimed here. It is just the truth.

154 posted on 11/29/2008 12:41:11 AM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: LibLieSlayer

I agree... and there will be a number of highly trained and highly motivated Patriots available if the worst happens... and these people know the tactics and know the weaknesses. These are the very people that have won in Iraq.


That will be the ace in the hole. Yeah, I think you would have to be crazy to want something to happen, but the second amendment wasn’t put into the constitution for duck hunters.


155 posted on 11/29/2008 12:41:43 AM PST by Sharrukin
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To: Sharrukin
Scaremongering? I take it then that you are scared by reality. You go on about how your morale is going to collapse if things are not as rosy as you imagined. Bart.223 is right, if it ever came to it, you would collapse like a house of cards.

Listen ~ I never said that anyone wasn't facing reality, or that I'm looking for a "rosy" situation. My concern is with people's reaction to these events. When I see someone post over, and over, and over again about how "all is lost", or how "it's over", etc., I begin to wonder if they realize the demoralizing effect that can have on some people reading here.

No, I'm not the FR morale officer, but I want to shake my fellow conservatives out of that funk, if I can. My tone has been a bit harsh tonight. I know that, and have apologized to a few folks for it.

I'll tell you what it is. It's my observation that maybe ten to twenty percent of the posts to these bc threads are morose, or defeatist. That's startling to me, at a place such as this. After a while, it starts to get under your skin, and you want to do something to snap these folks out of whatever they're in.

I know that some who post this way only mean to indicate the seriousness of the situation, or that it's a concrete reality. I've got that. I think that most of us do. But when a person offers nothing constructive to the discussion, and only communicates the hopelessness of our situation, it can do nothing but lower expectations of success in this, or to demoralize others.

And that is a dis-service to the group, I think.

156 posted on 11/29/2008 12:42:40 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
We have elections in 2010... if he overplays his hand... we will win power back again. He has two years in which to suppress the Constitution and stack the Court. After that... there will be so many crises on his plate that he will find it difficult to do much more than stay in power. Any weakness shown by him will be tested by our enemies... and we have many across the world.

LLS

157 posted on 11/29/2008 12:46:40 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims! I am an UMA-unity my a$$)
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To: Sharrukin

“the second amendment wasn’t put into the constitution for duck hunters.”

That should be carved into the face of the SCOTUS building.

LLS


158 posted on 11/29/2008 12:48:09 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims! I am an UMA-unity my a$$)
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To: Sharrukin

BTW... I am tired... goodnight FRiend and all FRiends on this thread.

LLS


159 posted on 11/29/2008 12:49:55 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims! I am an UMA-unity my a$$)
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To: blackbart.223
This thread got started because people like you are pinning your hopes on the birth certificate issue. If it happens I will be the first to swallow my pride and admit you are right. What will you do if I right?

Right about what? That nothing can be done about it? That it's a hopeless situation, and that we'd all better face four years of The One?

Sorry if that sounds a bit snarky. I'm just trying to pin down what your actual viewpoint on this matter is. So far, all you've offered is defeatist statements, so I don't know what your real position is on the subject.

Bart, I can sense from reading some of your other posts, and from what you've said in some of your comments to me, that you're an honorable person who loves his country.

I also gather that you may have been a patriot a lot longer than some of us on this board. I don't know your history. You may have very well put your life on the line for this country in your life. You sound like the type.

It's not my intent to insult you. I'd just rather hear that you're going to stand up to The Punk, even though you feel that he's holding an advantage over us. That's all I want to hear from anyone who's not convinced that we can overcome this guy through the courts.

Alright?

160 posted on 11/29/2008 12:51:48 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: omniscient
I have very little faith in SCOTUS to resolve this. They will conclude that this is too "political" and shut this down as soon as the formalities are done with.

God, I hope you're wrong. I think everyone here does, including you.

Omni, if it goes down wrong, we have to get up and fight this usurper like nobody's business. Our whole way of life will depend on it.

161 posted on 11/29/2008 12:56:22 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
Have you ever faced death? This is an important question since you seem to question others on the subject.

Yes. Not in war, but on the streets where I grew up.

I know what it's like to be a nanosecond away from taking someone's precious life. And I know what it's like to see my life flash before my eyes, because the danger I faced came *that* close to ending my life.

Yes. I've been there many times.

162 posted on 11/29/2008 12:59:32 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Centurion2000
Re-reading Unintended Consequences at the moment. Good uplifting read.

I've been a book junkie all my life, but I never read that one. I'm familiar with the title, just not the story. Pardon my ignorance, but is it about the Revolutionary War period?

163 posted on 11/29/2008 1:01:57 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

You have a point and I do not mean to suggest that all is hopeless. It isn’t, and I think the conservatives can win. That said, I think my annoyance comes from people, not necessarily here, who make posts of what they will do, and you can tell that they are not serious.

I think it is serious. I cannot see into the future, but I can see into the past. Not as good, but it’s all I have. This has happened before in many places. People in those times and places thought it couldn’t happen. The reasoning was that it just couldn’t. We know that it did.

The Germans were not cowards, nor were they stupid. They were not given a flashpoint. The time when the flag was raised and someone yelled ‘rally round me boys’ never came. So they watched as their freedoms and their decency were compromised bit by bit.

Now you may say, well we will be watching! Were you watching when Blackwater security was deployed domestically? When National Guardsmen went around door to door seizing firearms during Katrina? When ACORN and Project Vote committed election fraud and nothing was done? When Hillary voters were physically intimidated from voting?

When it comes it will come softly in the night and you will wake to a country you do not know. To act. To do something then, will require you to do something that many cannot do. Face public embarrassment. You will be the wild haired loon shrieking ‘watch the skies, watch the skies’. You will be an embarrassment. Most people cannot do that. John McCain lost the election because he didn’t want to be called a mean name.

People you think will stand by you won’t because you will embarrass them. That’s why I believe Rush and the others haven’t covered the birth certificate issue. When it becomes publicly acceptable they will cover it. The faster we make it so, the better.


164 posted on 11/29/2008 1:03:42 AM PST by Sharrukin
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To: Sharrukin
I don't believe that American soldiers will obey orders to fire on Americans, if it comes to insurrection.

What I believe, is that before it comes to that, there will be wholesale mutiny in the ranks.

Don't forget that these people are our brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins, fathers, and friends. They will not obey such an order.

165 posted on 11/29/2008 1:05:22 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: ckilmer

WANTED!!! URGENT!!! WANTED!!!

1. YouTube or other video of the 2004 Illinois Senate debate of Dr. Keyes and Barack Obama. It was the 2nd debate between them and an amateur video. The title of the video on YouTube, until it was removed recently was, “What Obama Doesn’t Want You to Know.”

2. The following names Ann Dunham, Anne Dunham, Anna Toot, Stanley Dunham and spelling iterations on all names. Any information regarding her whereabouts in 1961-1962, schools and universities, travel by ship or plane, or friends during that time period

3. News articles for BO’s earlier years. Search additional names (all possible iterations)

a. Barack Hussein Dunham
b. Barry Dunham
c. Barry Soetero

4. Anne Dunham’s (and various spellings) friends circa 1961

a. Maxine Box - Mercer Island High
b. Susan Blake
c. Barbara Cannon Rusk
d. John W. Hunt
e. Hal and Shirley Abercrombie

5. Anne Dunham’s Timeline of locations during August 1961

6. Timeline of BHO Sr. and Anne Dunham’s courtship and marriage (if marriage occurred)

7. Anne Dunham’s (and spelling iterations) for the following Seattle WA locations:

a. Laurel Hurst Dormitory (married students housing?)
b. Capital Hill Apts or District

8. Soetero divorce - who was atty handling and is he/she alive?

9. BHO Sr 3rd Wife Ruth Nidersand or Nightsand

10. Mark and David Obama - one lives in Shenzen China and builds websites for Chinese firms

11. David Mendele - HI Biographer - please locate.

12. Ella Cook - Sponsor of BHO Sr.

13. A vid or audio tape of BO’s Kenyan grandmother stating that she witnessed his birth in Kenya. (We have the Mike in the Morning conversation with Kenyan Amb.)

14. We need lists of electors for each state and the requirements: what are the requirements to be the electors in each state.

A number of voters were stating that when they asked for those lists from the SOS in their states, they either didn’t get them, were denied the right to get the lists or they kept getting corrected lists.

Your friends, relatives, or acquaintances may have relevant information vital to this legal action. Net Warriors, we need your help.

Please forward information to FreedomMarch@live.com


166 posted on 11/29/2008 1:05:30 AM PST by kingphilip2
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To: LibLieSlayer
For those in Rio Linda... watch Gibson in the Patriot.

Absolutely. Or the film "Wallace". Another patriot of immense honor and courage.

167 posted on 11/29/2008 1:07:33 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Sharrukin

You’ve got it. We have to get this INTO public discussion.

The truth is that Barack Obama is probably qualified to be POTUS. But for all of the future of this country, we NEED to make SURE of that, and the people who protest so much and call the request itself racist might be idiots or they might be in on some kind of treachery. We won’t know until we know the documents are in order and “natural born” is fully clarified vis a vis dual nationalities and so forth.

We need the country to care about their Constitution. It’s only a Republic if we can keep it, as Ben Franklin said so long ago. We need to duck the barrage of name-calling and inform America that we are nothing as a nation without our Constitution. This is no time to treat it like an Etch-a-sketch.


168 posted on 11/29/2008 1:16:18 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: Smokin' Joe
"Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

My understanding is that Obama had British citizenship at birth. He's even made this statement on his own website. It's also been claimed that because he never affirmed his British citizenship upon his 18th birthday, that it automatically expired.

I've read also that claims upon a person's citizenship have no bearing upon their legal citizenship status within the US. If Obama can prove that he was born in Hawaii, he might have legal claim upon American citizenship, but even then, there is doubt about his ability to claim "natural born citizen" status, even if the foregoing is held to be true.

There's so much to learn about this, and so much in the way of quotes and passages from legal opinions, statutes, and the Constitution, that it's hard to retain it all. I just keep reading, and letting it all sink in. Number of times over equals certainty, you know. Keep studying.

169 posted on 11/29/2008 1:21:40 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: fightinJAG
Repeating yourself just gives the other guy the chance to repeat himself.

Sage advice, FJ. I've been a forum jockey long enough that I ought to know that.

170 posted on 11/29/2008 1:23:22 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
My guess is you would be the first to fold when shots are fired in your direction.

You guess wrong, amigo.

My current occupation is a paid body guard. Not much chance of being shot but the possibilty is there. What do you do?

Who me? I'm just your friendly neighborhood salesman, but I used to lead a much more exiting life.

171 posted on 11/29/2008 1:27:41 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
Only gonna happen if you sit there and allow the vampires to suck out your fighting spirit.

Personally, I tell them all to FOAD. It ain't over til it's over. Read into that what you will.

That's what I like to hear! Between this shape shifter Obama and the 8 trillion dollar Wall St meltdown we have a huge mess on our hands. Its like a Twilight Zone episode where we take a wrong turn into a bizarre town on the edge of nowhere

172 posted on 11/29/2008 1:35:12 AM PST by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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To: montesquieu

Wow. That’s amazing that you know Obama voters who already have buyer’s remorse. These people are obviously up on the facts of the bc issue.

The truth is the only thing that can break Obama’s grip on people’s minds. Good on these folks for having the courage to read it. Most Obots are too far gone to accept truth any longer.


173 posted on 11/29/2008 1:38:55 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
...I know that some who post this way only mean to indicate the seriousness of the situation, or that it's a concrete reality. I've got that. I think that most of us do. But when a person offers nothing constructive to the discussion, and only communicates the hopelessness of our situation, it can do nothing but lower expectations of success in this, or to demoralize others. And that is a disservice to the group, I think.

I agree!! We need to encourage each other. We know we are up against some odds, but such has been the history of our nation. Over and over we rise to the occasion. We must STAND together, but stand we must!!!! We must relay information, but being overly negative helps no one. We need reality, YES, but BELIEVING is so important to anything (within reason) becoming reality. We need to believe and pray for God to intervene and for America to wake up. I must say that I am encouraged by what I'm beginning to see. Even Scalia said recently that he was encouraged by the growing interest in preserving the original intent of the Constitution!! Take heart. This is far from over.

174 posted on 11/29/2008 1:41:18 AM PST by montesquieu
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To: Doofer
Haven't thought it through, what's your suggestion on a course of action?

There is no action without thought. You can't move a muscle without deciding to first.

First thing any person has to do when faced with an evil like Obama is to choose to fight back. Make a choice. You don't even have to get out of your chair to do it. Action will follow, but you've got to decide first.

Once you've done that, write to your elected representatives and inform them that it's their constitutional duty to demand all of the facts regarding Obama's "natural born citizen" bona fides. Tell them that they must demand proof that he actually meets the constitutional qualification to be President.

That's a good start.

175 posted on 11/29/2008 1:44:53 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Sharrukin
Now you may say, well we will be watching! Were you watching when Blackwater security was deployed domestically? When National Guardsmen went around door to door seizing firearms during Katrina?
~~~
IIRC it was the NOPD that STOLE guns from the folks in the

area of the 9th Ward,,,(5-600 guns total),,,

Blackwater (a few) were deployed in the area of city hall.

There is still 125 LANG deployed in NOLA (last count),,,

They still cannot control the 9th Ward area,,,

One small area of a city of 250,000(last count),,,

No Way the Military can control the entire USA!!!...

176 posted on 11/29/2008 1:46:21 AM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68
That makes US gun owners the largest land army on earth! Now just where is this Mythical force gunna come from that's gunna Whup our asses ???

That mythical force only exists in the fevered minds of would be dictators, and in particular, a certain megalomaniac pretender to the throne of Emperor King of the US.

177 posted on 11/29/2008 1:51:14 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
You havn’t answered my question.

Pretty sure I have. You only asked one, and I replied.

178 posted on 11/29/2008 1:55:17 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
"I think I may have just shaken folks a bit too hard tonight. Apologies to all."

>> "Think before you flap your gums." <<

What the hell? I stand up and take the criticism like a man, apologize for any misbehavior, and you want to piss on me?

FOAD

179 posted on 11/29/2008 1:59:55 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

That mythical force only exists in the fevered minds of would be dictators, and in particular, a certain megalomaniac pretender to the throne of Emperor King of the US.
~~~
Spot On my FRiend!!!

My Dad called those “pipe dreams”,,,

Makes ya’ wonder what some folks are smokin’...:0/


180 posted on 11/29/2008 2:04:44 AM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Smokin' Joe
How about “Alleged President Elect Hussein Obama the Usurper”.
181 posted on 11/29/2008 2:04:47 AM PST by TYVets
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To: TheThinker
I really think birthplace was most important to the FF's. They wanted immersion in the Constitutional system and the president to grow up loving and experiencing their country. It's hard to do that from thousands of miles away.

Until Obama went to college he did not live as a mainstream America, he did not live in the Continental United States

Obama spent four years in Indonesia living pretty much as an Indonesian does and living as a Muslim
Obama spent the rest of his formative years in Hawaii
Sorry but Hawaii is barely part of America with its strong Asian and native Hawaiian Islander background
It has never been very "white" and very few blacks live there today and even fewer back in Obama's day
The native Hawaiians are agitating to be recognized as an Indian tribe so they can make mega bucks off casinos
Back when 0 lived there Hawaii was such an exotic multicultural stew that Frank Marshall Davis moved there with his white wife to get away from being hassled for this inter racial marriage. Such marriages were very far from the norm back then but barely noticed in Hawaii

Obama's Hawaiian years were from his birth in 1961 until he went Occidental College in LA at age 18
His interlude was ages 6-10 in Indonesia

182 posted on 11/29/2008 2:22:28 AM PST by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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To: Windflier
The quote comes from the linked page, (Polarik's blog),verbatim. I understand that as the son of a Kenyan father Obama would have been born a British subject in 1961.

The interesting part is that prior to Factcheck.org posting the disclaimer, no one had mentioned Kenyan birth, only the HI COLB forgeries.

Polarik's blog pretty much gives the rundown on the COLB in detail, and explains why the one image posted online is bogus. (they are all from the same scanner/source, apparently).

What the Kenyan disclaimer boils down to is the equivalent of mom calling the 5 year old in for cookies and milk, only to be told that 'he didn't break the glass in the bathroom', even though mom didn't know about that yet. It was an attempt at preemptive absolution posted with no issue to defend, and thus flagged that issue. Is it a planted red herring? I do not know, but it gives another avenue to investigate.

--But it may also be the mistake which indicated another dimension to the issue.

All that is really (most) relevant here is that he must be a natural born US citizen to Constitutionally qualified to be POTUS, the documentation should be provided (by court order, if need be) to prove that status or lack thereof.

If he lacks being a Natural Born Citizen, he is Constitutionally ineligible to be POTUS--all quibbling aside about exactly what that takes to be a Natural Born Citizen.

Donofrio's case, also questioning McCain's status, does two things by so doing.

First, it makes both candidates subject to the same level of Constitutional scrutiny as to eligibility, and second, removes the question of sheer partisan politics or racism, making the whole substantiative issue one of Constitutional eligibility.

Other cases will address the issue as well, if the SCOTUS will hear them.

If he is qualified, he will be sworn in, POTUS, and we go from there.

If not, that will raise another interesting and no doubt controversial set of issues as to who becomes POTUS, whether the election is valid, etc.

There may be violent acts perpetrated by persons unhappy with the outcome, either way. There may be economic problems associated with this as well.

My take on this is that:

1) It would have been much cheaper to release the information than to fight the release, ergo, there must be something disqualifying in the information. Merely embarassing would be just that, merely embarasssing. Obama has the popular vote and committed electors should he qualify, and, embarassment aside, would be POTUS. He should be able to handle that.

The entire presumptive push to call him "President-elect" well before the Electoral College has met, as well as the myriad trinkets and "commemorative' items being produced, not to mention the entirely fanciful "Office of the President-Elect" (which has no basis in law, Constitutional or otherwise), are all designed to increase the popular outcry from those ignorant of the Constitution and electoral process should Obama be disqualified. As such, that might foment unrest.

183 posted on 11/29/2008 2:23:33 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Windflier; blackbart.223

You said — “There would never have been an America, if the colonists had succumbed to your mindset.”

There would never be an America if the issues for those colonists all *happened in our generation*, versus happening in the generation that it did. And that’s why he’s saying that he doesn’t hold out much hope...

I don’t either. Remember, Obama *was elected* by a very large margin. That should be proof enough... LOL...


184 posted on 11/29/2008 2:47:32 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Sharrukin
You have a point and I do not mean to suggest that all is hopeless. It isn’t, and I think the conservatives can win. That said, I think my annoyance comes from people, not necessarily here, who make posts of what they will do, and you can tell that they are not serious.

I believe that you can tell a boaster, a braggart - a puffed up wanna-be, if you watch them for a while. Over time you get a sense of a person's character. Even in cyberspace.

I believe that most of the people I've seen make mention of their intention to stand against threats to their liberty are telling the unvarnished truth. Most of these statements come unbidden, and are very personal. I've seen few that caused me to think they were anything but genuine.

This has happened before in many places. People in those times and places thought it couldn’t happen. The reasoning was that it just couldn’t. We know that it did.

The Germans were not cowards, nor were they stupid. They were not given a flashpoint. The time when the flag was raised and someone yelled ‘rally round me boys’ never came. So they watched as their freedoms and their decency were compromised bit by bit.

No, the Germans didn't have a flashpoint, to call them to arms. By the time the Nazi flag was raised, they'd been disarmed, and had no way to effectively resist. But, they were warned. Hitler spent years working his way up in national politics, with his Nazi party following close behind.

Germans shouldn't have feared to loudly criticize Hitler and the Nazis when they were still a small band of wacko zealots. In fact, I believe some did. Hitler even spent time in prison during the early days of the Nazi party. He wrote Mein Kampf there.

However, not enough Germans made a real effort to oppose the Nazis when it was apparent that they had grown in stature, and were becoming a real force in German politics.

It was quite obvious that they were militaristic thugs. They mocked themselves up like a para-military organization, and distributed wildly inflammatory leaflets, booklets and such across the country. The Nazis had already become what the Obots fuzzily dream of, long before they actually gained complete power over the German government.

People in Germany witnessed the rise of the Nazis and did nothing effective to stop them.

This is a bit different than what we've witnessed with Obama, though there are certainly parallels that can be drawn between the infiltration of the left in our society, and the rise of similar radical anti-establishment groups elsewhere.

I think my point is that we've all seen enough of the decline in our culture, and the concurrent rise of left-liberalism, to conclude that we'd better change our operating basis if we want to keep our country.

Since the Democrats took control of Congress in 2006, it's been clear that our side has wandered off the reservation, but with the introduction of Obama to the Presidency, and the left-wing radical agenda he brings, the urgency for us to swiftly change our modus operandi has increased to red alert stage.

When it comes it will come softly in the night and you will wake to a country you do not know. To act. To do something then, will require you to do something that many cannot do.

I don't think so. Obama is our "flashpoint". The Democrat/Socialists have overreached by running him for office. He is without doubt, the most radical candidate they could have chosen, and his brand of governance is far too steep a change for America to make without major fractures and upheavals.

No, it didn't come softly in the night. The radical Socialists might have won, had they played it that way.

America has been lazily snoozing for a very long time - only briefly awakened from its slumber by the events of 9/11. Through the 8 years of Bush, America even fell back into dreams, but Obama has awakened us with a crash. People who never cared about politics or current events before, are suddenly very concerned and interested in this transition to ---- what?

And because America is awakened, they are paying close attention. Much closer than normal. Due to Obama's radical agenda, it's unlikely that we'll snooze again anytime soon.

Obama and the Socialist Democrats have already blown it. They're under full surveillance, and have stupidly allowed their standard bearer to tip their hand. Now there is no way for them to covertly steal the last of our freedoms while we sleep. The coup is way off script and far ahead of schedule. Too bad. It's not going to happen now.

185 posted on 11/29/2008 2:50:49 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
I fear for the republic. Me too! (See screen name.)
186 posted on 11/29/2008 2:52:37 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: dennisw
Between this shape shifter Obama and the 8 trillion dollar Wall St meltdown we have a huge mess on our hands. Its like a Twilight Zone episode where we take a wrong turn into a bizarre town on the edge of nowhere

It's beyond surreal. For maybe the first three days after the election, I was in a sort of foggy dreamworld, except I'd wake up each morning, and find the nightmare was still there.

I'm sure that a lot of us are out of breath trying to keep up with the swift movement of events. I've decided to keep an ear out for important developments while I throw most of my attention into the bc issue. It's just too doggone huge to ignore for a political news junkie (and patriot) like me.

We're definitely in some strange territory now. I can agree with that.

187 posted on 11/29/2008 3:02:38 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: abenaki

The more I read, the more I’m starting to think that not only may he not be a natural born citizen, he may not be an American citizen at all.


188 posted on 11/29/2008 3:09:54 AM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: CaraM

The more I read, day by day, the more determined I get that even if all I can do is educate myself, write a couple of letters to the editor, and talk to a few people,sign petitions, maybe put a sign on my gate - (now I’m getting ideas) (and practice target shooting just for fun), by heck! I’m going to do that.

I feel absolutely determined that this pile of stinkin’ Obama is not qualified to be president by the rules of the Constitution, he’s nothing but a lying thug of a non-citizen most likely, and I’ll be damned if I give up now, or worse, yet, try to instill hopelessness or defeatism in others.


189 posted on 11/29/2008 3:14:13 AM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: Windflier; Sharrukin; blackbart.223

You said — “If you’re that scared, you need to leave here, because when the moment comes, I know that you won’t have my back. And don’t think for a moment that you can slink into our brigades later. You will be remembered for who you are, vampire.”

You’ve already shown that you’re “whacked out” and not too much good for anything useful on this issue (besides posting wildly... LOL...).

If you think that someone posting on a computer screen on this board is going to have your back — you’re delusional.... LOL... The only people who will have anyone’s back will be the ones that you know personally and have associated with or will associate with you in real life, at one time or another (if they so choose to do so...). It’s not going to happen from typing on your keyboard. It will happen if someone gets together with you personally.

All that is going on here is nothing more than information, which you carry back to your *own real life* (not something you just do on this board). It’s what you do in “real life” that counts and not what you do or say here...

Free Republic is useful for an information source that you can carry back out to your own real life. In that, it doesn’t matter what one says here, because you don’t have to carry out to your own real life what you don’t want to...


190 posted on 11/29/2008 3:14:35 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Windflier; blackbart.223; Sharrukin; fightinJAG; USAF70; wistful; Lilpug15; 1_Rain_Drop; Yaelle

You said — “Obama has screwed up irretrievably with his obvious forgeries of government documents. He’s toast. Either now, or later, but he’s toast.”

My prediction is that he’s not toast, in terms of being sworn in as President. And once he gets to that point, he won’t be toast either, all through his term.

And I’m not saying that because I’ve been posting all along that we should ignore the birth certificate issue. On the contrary, I’ve been saying that he has to prove it, just like John McCain did. But, on the other hand, I didn’t vote for him, and a lot of others did — a vast majority did.

So, it’s from seeing the results of the election, the results of all the warnings about the birth certificate before the election, the results of several court cases so far and seeing how this is being totally ignored by Obama and his team — *and* — it’s also being ignored by the present administration, when they’ve been asked questions about it.

Therefore, with all that evidence — in spite of all the “enthusiasm” of posters here — this issue *is going nowhere* — and that result has nothing to do with my thinking regarding the birth certificate or your thinking regarding the birth certificate.


191 posted on 11/29/2008 3:15:21 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: ckilmer

Obama has not produced a birth certificate for one simple reason: He doesn’t have to. Nobody is holding his feet to the fire. Even conservative news sources will not touch this. A court ruling may eventually force him to reveal his BC, but there is zero positive evidence that he was born outside of US, and much evidence that he was born in Hawaii including a birth announcement in a newspaper.

This is a fun issue to follow, but don’t expect anything to come out of this. Obama is the next POTUS.


192 posted on 11/29/2008 3:23:27 AM PST by zarodinu
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To: Windflier; blackbart.223; Sharrukin; fightinJAG; USAF70; wistful; Lilpug15; 1_Rain_Drop; Yaelle

You said — “I think my point is that we’ve all seen enough of the decline in our culture, and the concurrent rise of left-liberalism, to conclude that we’d better change our operating basis if we want to keep our country.”

The fact that you may have not noticed or have willfully ignored is that the Germans who did see the problem *did not* have the power to effect the change that was needed. AND, likewise, you may very well find that you and others of like-mind, *may not* have the power to effect the needed changes you say have to be done in order to “save the Republic”.

The election showed, clearly that people who are of the mindset of most in this forum of Free Republic *do not consist of the majority* — and that’s why Obama won the election.

If that remains true — you will simply *not* have the ability or means to *effect* the necessary change.

Now, this says nothing about not trying, as will typically be the “comeback” on this. But, you’ll notice that I said none of that. What I said is that you may be ignoring the fact that you can do all that you can do — and it’s *not enough* to effect the changes that are needed....

There’s another element in this, too. It’s that God has determined, already, how things in the world are going to pan out, in order to bring about His conclusion for Israel and the *judgement of the nations* in the world, as it says in the Bible.

It’s *highly likely* — that if we fail to *effect the necessary changes* — that this reflects the “judgement of God” upon the nation for the majority choosing things which are going to be *detrimental* to our Republic and well-being as a nation...

And as I see it, the judgement of God is coming upon this nation, regardless of what you think or try to do.

Remember, the founding fathers said that they couldn’t found this nation absent the help of Almighty God — and likewise — you’re not going to stop the judgement of God, upon this nation, no matter how good your intentions are, if the majority are against you and the judgement of God comes because of that.


193 posted on 11/29/2008 3:27:17 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: montesquieu
Amen. This nation has risen to every occasion, and will do so again.
194 posted on 11/29/2008 3:27:55 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Star Traveler

A) It wasn’t a vast majority.

B) It would have been far fewer without the MSM presstitutes in his thrall, illegal foreign money flowing in, ACORN and associated fakery, and McCain apparently (to my eyes) throwing the election.

No, not a vast majority.


195 posted on 11/29/2008 3:33:37 AM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah; zarodinu
The more I read, the more I’m starting to think that not only may he not be a natural born citizen, he may not be an American citizen at all.

Obama has not produced a birth certificate for one simple reason: He doesn’t have to.

You have to produce a Birth Certificate to get a drivers license.

But you don't need one to put your finger on the nuclear trigger?

.

196 posted on 11/29/2008 3:34:10 AM PST by TYVets
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To: blackbart.223

I too agree with Windflier’s post >> “There would never have been an America, if the colonists had succumbed to your mindset.”


197 posted on 11/29/2008 3:35:12 AM PST by dusttoyou (mushroom culture, keep us in the dark and feed only BS)
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To: zarodinu

You said — “... but there is zero positive evidence that he was born outside of US, and much evidence that he was born in Hawaii including a birth announcement in a newspaper.”

There’s not zero evidence that he was born outside of the US. There is the testimony of his grandmother in Kenya who says she was there in the hospital when Obama was born and saw him born there. That’s pretty substantial to have such a close relative say that.

Secondly, there was an interview from a radio station (given on a Free Republic thread, too) where the Kenyan Ambassador in Washington DC said that Obama was born in Kenya. And he was also saying that the people in Kenya generally knew that this was the case, too (besides himself knowing it).

And then you mentioned the birth announcement in the paper — well..., that’s easy enough to produce. It’s not proof of birth there — but only proof that someone was wanting to establish that fact at that time. And, of course, Obama’s mother wanted to establish that fact, for her son (and not because she thought he was going to need it to become President, but because she wanted that advantage for him).

As I understand it, she couldn’t fly out of Kenya at the time, because the airlines would fly someone as pregnant as her, so she was stuck until the baby was born. So, (I would say) she had to make a plan where she could get something established that would give credibility that Obama was born in the U.S. And that led to her immediately flying out of Kenya, after he was born and establishing this charade in Hawaii.

The evidence is not stacked all one way, like you seem to think it is.

HOWEVER, whether anyone will act upon it in a legal and authoritative way is quite another matter. And in that sense, I don’t think it’s going to be done legally and authoritatively...


198 posted on 11/29/2008 3:36:39 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68
My Dad called those “pipe dreams”,,,

Makes ya’ wonder what some folks are smokin’...

Barry already admitted that he used to "smoke".

199 posted on 11/29/2008 3:36:39 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: little jeremiah

You said — “No, not a vast majority.”

Yes it was when I look at Bush’s two terms and Clinton’s election. It was certainly greater than any of those. That qualifies (for me) as a vast majority, without a doubt.


200 posted on 11/29/2008 3:38:44 AM PST by Star Traveler
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