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Chasm dividing Americans over birth certificate widens
WND ^ | November 28, 2008

Posted on 11/28/2008 9:00:33 PM PST by ckilmer

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To: wistful
"We need to start letting these people know how angry they’re making us, and if you’re not angry, you should be.

I belive I said I was old and pissed off. How much more anger do you need? I guess I'm not making myself clear.

Bart.

51 posted on 11/28/2008 10:15:48 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: ckilmer

As much as I despise Obama, I have to admire his audacity. He knows, has known for years that he his not eligible for the Presidency, but has gambled everything that he can hold people off until he actually takes office, at which time the “natural born” requirement becomes a dead letter.

It’s going to be up to the courts to decide. But frankly, I am not hopeful.


52 posted on 11/28/2008 10:15:53 PM PST by Ronin
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To: Yaelle
Jon Stewart, Katie Couric, and Wolf Blitzer...

If these folks (or ones like them) never say anything, then the tree in the forest did not fall. And that is the sad truth. Our world revolves around these schmucky interpreters of reality.

Vampire!

You've got to bring more than that, if you want to suck the fighting spirit out of us, vampire.

Reality will not be settled without the full participation of American patriots. Suck that, vampire.

53 posted on 11/28/2008 10:16:43 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: RGPII
Bambam is bound to mess up someplace. A slip up will happen. Most of the time it's something so tiny that it was overlooked, or it hasn't had the chance to surface yet.

We have to keep an eye out for that needle in his sealed haystack. It's just not possible that he was able to cover all his tracks.

We have to also pray that eyes be opened and wisdom kick in.

54 posted on 11/28/2008 10:16:44 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: blackbart.223

Just go and lie down somewhere until the fight is over.


55 posted on 11/28/2008 10:17:40 PM PST by wistful
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To: Sharrukin

Thanks for watching my back.


56 posted on 11/28/2008 10:19:15 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: jokyfo
Unless he produces the required documents he should always be known here as the:

“ALLEGED PRESIDENT”

B Hussein Obama the first man to hold the office of:

"ALLEGED PRESIDENT ELECT"

.

57 posted on 11/28/2008 10:22:19 PM PST by TYVets
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To: ckilmer

In order to be a US Senator you have to have been a citizen for 8 years.

If Obama was never naturalized then he was never eligible to be in Congress.

If the Supreme Court takes the responsiblity to declare Obama ineligible (the burden of proof is on him) but is ignored for whatever reason the only recourse they may have is to refuse to swear him in.

If they don’t swear him in I don’t think he can be Prez.


58 posted on 11/28/2008 10:22:24 PM PST by Diggity
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To: wistful
"Just go and lie down somewhere until the fight is over."

I have probably been in the fight longer than you have been alive. I know one thing. Underestimate the enemy at you own peril.

59 posted on 11/28/2008 10:22:43 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Yaelle
"Can we have a President of the United States who has never proven to the country that he is eligible under the qualifications of the Constitution?"

Looks like it is going to happen. What's a better to nullify the constitution than be elected when not qualified. When Obama is sworn in, the constitution is trash.

Good Hunting... from Varmint Al

60 posted on 11/28/2008 10:23:53 PM PST by Varmint Al
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To: blackbart.223
When you can't face reality and deal with it from there your head is up your backside. I hate the fact Obama ever got elected. But I won't let anyone pump sunshine up my skirt.

Then stop whining and get in fighting spirit. You're not doing anyone any favors by advocating for apathy.

So the situation's bad. What are you going to do about it? Convince us all to lie down and give up? I, for one, refuse to submit to that invitation.

"Red-blooded" indeed. Find 'em, friend.

61 posted on 11/28/2008 10:25:13 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223

It’s just that so many people are not taking this seriously and those who do, like those on FreeRepublic don’t seem to understand how utterly horrific this could get. That SOB may only be Carter born again, but if he is what his past associations suggest he is a lot of people could die.

This isn’t the first time this sort of thing has happened and if we really want to stop it, we had better face up to how ugly it could get. Liberals are true believers in a way that many conservatives are not. Conservatives THINK. Liberals feel and that gives them a unity and purpose that conservatives often lack.

Dismissing Obama as a lightweight or his idiot looking supporters as pushovers is an easy way to get sucker-punched when things go south.


62 posted on 11/28/2008 10:25:14 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: Ronin
As much as I despise Obama, I have to admire his audacity. He knows, has known for years that he his not eligible for the Presidency, but has gambled everything that he can hold people off until he actually takes office, at which time the “natural born” requirement becomes a dead letter.

I beg to differ.

I admire audacity when it is the servant of the worthwhile.

If he isn't a "natural born citizen" according to Article 2 of our Constitution, then this narcissist is trying to tear apart the fabric of our nation with his little "experiment." I don't admire that in the least.

Whatever his "natural born" status, he isn't ACTING like a "natural born" citizen, with his trips abroad to campaign in other countries (Kenya, Germany), declaring himself a "citizen of the world", associating with America-hating people (Rev. Wright, Ayers) etc. He isn't acting like someone who is proud of his country and loves his country.

Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis, Democrat candidate for President in 1988, was the son of Greek immigrants. The "natural born citizen" issue was never a part of his campaign. He did, however, campaign as a fervently patriotic American, as I recall. He did not define himself as a Greek. He defined himself as an American first. Contrast that with Obama.
63 posted on 11/28/2008 10:27:10 PM PST by thecodont
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To: blackbart.223
They faced reality and acted accordingly.

Exactly.

So stand with us, would ya?

64 posted on 11/28/2008 10:27:12 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Varmint Al
What is happening is a travesty. On a lighter note the coyotes out here are priming up. Got the 22-250 tuned in. Good hunting.

Bart.

65 posted on 11/28/2008 10:28:56 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223

“I have probably been in the fight longer than you have been alive.”

Yeah well I’d say that was probably pretty likely seeing as how we’re so far down the damn tube. Like losing don’t you.


66 posted on 11/28/2008 10:30:30 PM PST by wistful
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To: Windflier
"So stand with us, would ya?"

Jesus! I've never been anywere else. Pay closer attention. It would suit you better.

67 posted on 11/28/2008 10:31:54 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: wistful

Oh for Christ sake! Facing reality and not underestimating what you are facing isn’t cowardice.


68 posted on 11/28/2008 10:32:36 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: Sharrukin

There’s no reason whatsoever to be calling anyone a coward here. Defeatist is the word.


69 posted on 11/28/2008 10:37:08 PM PST by wistful
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To: ckilmer
I am constantly seeing these messiah birth posts, only to be let down when I realize it's just another futile WND article. Which means this continues to be buried, and the general public continues to be oblivious.

This will only get traction if it is made an issue in the MSM. And the only circumstance in which they will acknowledge this is if Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, etc. begin to harp on this on a daily basis. These guys have to stop worrying about Fairness Doctrine and pick up the ball. Or are they just afraid of being made to look like fools in case B.Hussein O. actually comes up with proper documentation? As it stands, they are starting to lose credibility by ignoring this elephant. And worse yet, they are enabling Hussein's fraud, since MSM thinks if talk radio is ignoring this, they can too.

70 posted on 11/28/2008 10:37:08 PM PST by omniscient
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To: wistful
"Yeah well I’d say that was probably pretty likely seeing as how we’re so far down the damn tube. Like losing don’t you."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? I've been in the fight because I don't like to lose. Dry behind your ears and figure it out.

Bart.

71 posted on 11/28/2008 10:37:30 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: wistful

I was saying that some one WASN’T a coward for facing reality.


72 posted on 11/28/2008 10:40:00 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: Sharrukin
"Oh for Christ sake! Facing reality and not underestimating what you are facing isn’t cowardice."

You don't defeat any enemy with pipe dreams. I doubt this issue will ever get to The Supreme Court. I pray I'm wrong.

Bart.

73 posted on 11/28/2008 10:41:57 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223

Awww - Don’t be a Debbie Downer :(

No matter what, there are many of us who are suspicious and as long as we try to get the word out, watch this guy, and remain active and vigilant there is still a lot we can do BC issue or not!


74 posted on 11/28/2008 10:41:58 PM PST by Lilpug15 (I'm Moving to Alaska...You can Keep THE CHANGE!)
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To: blackbart.223
You don't win a fight until you understand the enemy. In this case it is ignorance. How do you defeat years of it?

I know one thing, and that is, the type of people who've sold out their core principles to support an empty charlatan like Obama only understand one thing, and that is overwhelming force.

We cannot "win over" people such as these. There is no appealing to their reason. They will not accept facts, or any logic which is in opposition to their belief in their Chosen One. We have already seen that approaching them with intelligence is pointless.

No, they must be forced to understanding, sad as that is to say. Hopefully, that will be accomplished through force of the courts, or of the Congress. If not, then The Founders left us with one final device, which is overt resistance.

I, for one, do not believe that the insurgents amongst us have the stomach for a real armed struggle, nor do I think they have any inkling of the magnitude of resistance they're foolishly priming.

As many here have said, "keep your powder dry."

75 posted on 11/28/2008 10:42:34 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: omniscient

Your post is very informative. I have been sitting here trying to figure out why the Big3 on talk radio have not said one word on this issue. Of course they are afraid of the “fairness doctrine”. Even Corsi seems to have dropped the issue.


76 posted on 11/28/2008 10:44:22 PM PST by abenaki
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To: Sharrukin
I understand the need for optimism but the courts have consistently thrown out these cases and I suspect they will do so again. The constitution is being ignored, the laws are being ignored, campaign finance laws are being selectively applied, election day fraud is now unremarkable. The list goes on.

You say you "understand the need for optimism, but..."

What do you propose to do about it?

77 posted on 11/28/2008 10:45:56 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
"As many here have said, "keep your powder dry."

I have probably said that more than anyone. But I also look at things from a realistic view point. Both go hand and and hand.

78 posted on 11/28/2008 10:46:50 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Windflier

I, for one, do not believe that the insurgents amongst us have the stomach for a real armed struggle, nor do I think they have any inkling of the magnitude of resistance they’re foolishly priming.


I think they will be far more dangerous than you imagine. If history is anything to judge by, they always are. They come in packs and the RINO will not stand by you. Well this says it better than I can...

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2008/11/wanted-men-and-women-of-courage.html


79 posted on 11/28/2008 10:47:47 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: ckilmer

It’s not clear that simply producing the BC answers the questions. Some of the constitutional/legal questions that apparently are not settled:

1. In terms of eligibility to serve as President, is there a distinction between citizenship based on birthplace and citizenship based on descent?

2. If so, which means of attaining citizenship make one eligible to serve as President?

3. Under the laws in effect at the time, what is the effect on the “natural born” status of the child when either father or mother is a non-U.S. citizen?

4. What is the effect on a child’s “natural born citizen” status if, having attained citizenship by (1) birthplace or (2) descent, subsequently that child is adopted by the citizen of a different nation and made a citizen of his adoptive father’s land?

5. If there are factual ambiguities relevant to an individual’s “natural born citizen” status, what is the standard of proof that applies to eligiblity to serve as President?

6. What is the result/procedure if the evidence is insufficient to conclude an individual who is or may be the President-elect is a “natural born citizen”?

7. If a child’s parent’s foreign citizenship, under the laws of that nation, descends to the child at birth, what effect, if any, does that have on the child’s “natural born citizen” status? If it creates a disqualification that can be cured, what is the procedure/standard for curing it?

8. In this extremely important and unusual circumstance (verifying a President-elect’s qualification to serve as president), on what grounds can the presumption of regularity of an official document (such as a BC) be challenged, and who has standing to do so? Does the nature of the potential harm, and the infrequency in which fact patterns raise the issue, militate for a more lenient standard for stating a claim?


80 posted on 11/28/2008 10:48:16 PM PST by fightinJAG (TWO BIG BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2008. Happy New Year, love, President Obama)
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To: Strategerist; Doofer

Ok. So where do we go from here?

If you’re up to speed on the depth of Obama’s treason, then you bear responsibility to do something about it.

What’s it gonna be?


81 posted on 11/28/2008 10:48:47 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223; All

Actually, blackbart.223, I have to give you credit. Without your input I never would have known how many folks won’t give up the fight.

I was a little concerned after reading so many posts on other subjects that reflected defeatist attitudes. But thanks to you I know I am not alone in the fight to preserve our Constitutional Republic.

I am no spring chicken either and am not so concerned for my own welfare, but I am concerned for the welfare of my children and grandchildren. For them I will never ‘give up’. Although the road to victory may be difficult, nothing is impossible.

Again, I thank you for your posts for you have renewed my faith in those that are members of ‘Free Republic’. Your words are a great example of a seeming negative turned in to a positive.

For those of you that got upset at blackbart.223, lighten up a little. blackbart.223 has brought us together and together we will win!!


82 posted on 11/28/2008 10:53:06 PM PST by USAF70 (I'm a bitter clinger)
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To: SatinDoll

This is the good that could come out of this, regardless what ends up being the facts re Obama. If the Supreme Court will just clear up this area of the law, that would be very helpful.

The Supremes also would do well to “suggest” that Congress create some kind of enforcement mechanism for the “natural born citizen” qualification.

Right now everyone is saying “it’s not my job” to figure out if X is eligible to be President.


83 posted on 11/28/2008 10:53:15 PM PST by fightinJAG (TWO BIG BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2008. Happy New Year, love, President Obama)
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To: Ronin
As much as I despise Obama, I have to admire his audacity. He knows, has known for years that he his not eligible for the Presidency, but has gambled everything that he can hold people off until he actually takes office, at which time the “natural born” requirement becomes a dead letter.

Do you really believe that's going to fly with over half of the American people? Do you honestly believe that we're simply going to throw up our hands and give up without a fight?

"Dead letter", my butt.

84 posted on 11/28/2008 10:53:52 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

All we can do is try to get these issues that call his legitimacy into question so that when the time comes there will be more people who will stand up, even if passively.

Personally, I think it will come to violence as the left feels they have the advantage and when they see power slipping from their grasp they will react as they have for the last 8 years. The difference is that this time they will have the power of the state behind them.

Waco, Texas, Elian Gonzales, and more will be repeated and much worse.

I hope it never happens but I just don’t see an easy way out.


85 posted on 11/28/2008 10:54:00 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: ckilmer

I would suggest taking this whole issue to a brand new level...

If everyone (or at least a large number of folks) were to refuse to show their Birth Certificate for anything which currently requires the showing of said article, would simply refuse. And when they are denied the service they are requesting, file a lawsuit in federal court for violation of your rights. After all, if Obama doesn’t have to show HIS birth certificate (real one) to verify that he is really a NATURAL BORN US Citizen as the Constitution requires - then why should you have to show yours for admission to college, for your first driver’s license, or any other reason?


86 posted on 11/28/2008 10:54:05 PM PST by TheBattman (Pray for our country....)
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To: Windflier; blackbart.223

Leave the guy alone—for all our sakes.

He expressed his opinion. It got under your skin for some inscrutable reason.

Now it’s your constant haranging that is weighing down the thread.

Please. Post on something besides the fact that you don’t like the tone of someone else’s posts.


87 posted on 11/28/2008 10:56:58 PM PST by fightinJAG (TWO BIG BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2008. Happy New Year, love, President Obama)
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To: 1_Rain_Drop
Bambam is bound to mess up someplace. A slip up will happen. Most of the time it's something so tiny that it was overlooked, or it hasn't had the chance to surface yet.

Haven't visited the birth certificate threads much, have you?

Obama has screwed up irretrievably with his obvious forgeries of government documents. He's toast. Either now, or later, but he's toast.

88 posted on 11/28/2008 10:57:02 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223
Thanks for watching my back.

You thank someone for helping you toward the grave? That's pathetic.

89 posted on 11/28/2008 10:58:23 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: FreeAtlanta
Your "freedom to be stupid" remark reminded me somehow of Wierd Al Yankovich.

Humor break:

DARE TO BE STUPID

90 posted on 11/28/2008 10:59:39 PM PST by fightinJAG (TWO BIG BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2008. Happy New Year, love, President Obama)
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To: Windflier

To anger a liberal, tell him the truth!


91 posted on 11/28/2008 11:00:38 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: USAF70
I don't know how to respond to this other than to say thank you. Somtimes my comments are misunderstood. Thank you for getting them.

Bart.

92 posted on 11/28/2008 11:01:05 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Sharrukin
Dismissing Obama as a lightweight or his idiot looking supporters as pushovers is an easy way to get sucker-punched when things go south.

Sure, there's some ridicule of Obama supporters here, but I've rarely seen any Freeper misjudge their capacity for mindless violence and obedience to The Hive.

If anything, I think you've misjudged the average conservative, who understands history, believes in our Constitution, and who is, on average, prepared to protect and defend his God given liberties with deadly force, if necessary.

93 posted on 11/28/2008 11:04:45 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
"You thank someone for helping you toward the grave? That's pathetic."

When someone watches your back it can keep you out of the grave. But I don't expect you to understand that.

94 posted on 11/28/2008 11:07:04 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: omniscient

I disagree.

This doesn’t need “traction.” It is purely a constitutional/legal issue at this point.

I do trust that the SCOTUS would at least grant cert. on this issue if a case comes to them that meets their standard for granting cert.

It’s a high standard to get a case heard at the SCOTUS and, especially, they know that no matter what they do, they will be accused of overreaching, politicizing the Cout and so on.

Jawboning by smart, but not expert radio talk show hosts-—on a case that is convoluted in both law and facts-—not only is not “necessary,” but not in the least helpful.

(And the last thing Limbaugh, Hannity et al. would be cowed by is the prospect of the Fairness Doctrine. Are you kidding? If the Rats do try that, those guys and their listeners will be shouting from the stratosphere.)


95 posted on 11/28/2008 11:07:34 PM PST by fightinJAG (TWO BIG BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2008. Happy New Year, love, President Obama)
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To: Windflier

I hope so, as I believe it will come to that, and what people may be asked to do isn’t an easy thing.


96 posted on 11/28/2008 11:07:35 PM PST by Sharrukin
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To: blackbart.223
Jesus! I've never been anywere else. Pay closer attention. It would suit you better.

Well then, knock off the morale-busting tirade. It's not helping. State your willingness to stand and fight. That'll help.

97 posted on 11/28/2008 11:08:10 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: blackbart.223

What Republic? This is nothing mor than a socialist democracy at this point.


98 posted on 11/28/2008 11:08:36 PM PST by screaminsunshine (.)
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To: Windflier
"Well then, knock off the morale-busting tirade. It's not helping. State your willingness to stand and fight. That'll help."

If facing the truth busts your morale then stay five steps away from me. Better yet ten.

99 posted on 11/28/2008 11:11:59 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: screaminsunshine
"What Republic? "

It is still a republic. Just a little off course at this point. Well maybe a lot off course.

100 posted on 11/28/2008 11:14:14 PM PST by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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