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Rod Dreher: Ron Paul, if only we listened
The Dallas Morning News ^ | 2008-11-25 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 11/30/2008 11:16:35 AM PST by rabscuttle385

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To: rabscuttle385; Candor7
I'll say what I've said many times.

Ron Paul has some great ideas. I particularly agree with him on the need for a much smaller goverment. I also applauded what he said prior to the House's first vote on that bailout disaster. And I do admire and agree with his desire for adherence to the Constitution.

However, some of his other stances, such as foreign policy just wouldn't work in today's world. In fact, I believe that could be downright disastrous.

I believe Ron Paul has a place in our hopes for a return to conservatism in the GOP. But not as the top dog.

51 posted on 11/30/2008 12:25:28 PM PST by Allegra
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To: Liz; All
McC was also the stooge candidate of The Pukeneos after Giuliani bombed.....both candidacies were tightly controlled by The Puke puppeteers.

Jim DeMint on McCain:

McCain, who is a proponent of campaign finance reform that weakened party organizations and basically put (hedge fund billionaire and liberal philanthropist) George Soros in the driver’s seat."

“His proposal for amnesty for illegals. His support of global warming, cap-and-trade programs that will put another burden on our economy. And, of course, his embrace of the bailout right before the election was probably the nail in our coffin this last election. And he has been an opponent of drilling in ANWR, at a time when energy is so important. It really didn’t fit the label, but he was our package.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2140294/posts

Too bad that DeMint forgot to mention McCain's implicit support of Osama bin Laden via his overt support for one of al-Qaeda's affiliates, the Kosovo Liberation Army.

52 posted on 11/30/2008 12:26:16 PM PST by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: Gary Johnson in 2012
He stated that he would shrink the Military until it was only a force to protect our borders. He is anti-trade and he is an isolationist... even an isolationist like buchanan has said so. His foreign policy would kill America quicker than hussein's will.

LLS

53 posted on 11/30/2008 12:26:45 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (GOD, Country, Family... except when it comes to dims! I am an UMA-unity my a$$)
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To: LibLieSlayer
He is anti-trade

Bullcrap. Did you listen to even a single GOP presidential debate in 2007?

54 posted on 11/30/2008 12:29:32 PM PST by Gary Johnson in 2012 (Gary Johnson for President in 2012.)
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To: LibLieSlayer
He stated that he would shrink the Military until it was only a force to protect our borders.

This too is also BS. In 2004 Ron Paul voted against the Virgil Goode's amendment to HR-4200 authorize the U.S. military on the border.

I support using our military to secure our nation's borders. But Paul has never been a 'Tancredo' on immigration.

55 posted on 11/30/2008 12:32:05 PM PST by Gary Johnson in 2012 (Gary Johnson for President in 2012.)
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To: Gary Johnson in 2012

The only thing scarier to me now that I give Paul his due—recognizing he wasn’t just some extremist crank, but cogent, sincere and well-considered in his opinions—is that I actually find myself agreeing with Dreher.

Still, the best thing Paul could do would be to cultivate a cadre of serious candidates in his mold and see a national intra- or extra-Republican Party organization put them into office.

He’s never going to be president, but he might become the Goldwater that gives way to a Reagan.


56 posted on 11/30/2008 12:40:22 PM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: Drango

Uh-huh, an old newsletter posted in CNN...”rant against blacks, gays...”
That is typical liberal bilge about conservative “racism and bigotry.” What a crock of BS.
Is CNN your favorite news source?
-That figures.


57 posted on 11/30/2008 12:59:39 PM PST by FBD (My carbon footprint is bigger then yours)
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To: Species8472
Did anyone think about the fact that we were throwing out the most Internet savvy, the best grassroots organizing, the best fund-raising, the youngest and most dynamic people in this whole election cycle?

I'm sure that a lot of them voted for the 0.

It was a tactical blunder of epic proportions. Most of them didn't vote for Obama, they just stayed home. The only thing that almost saved McCain was Sarah Palin. I don't know anybody who voted Republican because of McCain, either they voted against Obama or for Palin.

Without the small government, libertarian wing of the Republican party we end up with RINO centrist losers like McCain or Dole. And Democratic presidents.

58 posted on 11/30/2008 1:05:10 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: FBD

Are you saying that’s NOT Ron Paul’s newsletter, or are you saying that didn’t write the article and published it without reading the material?


59 posted on 11/30/2008 1:06:49 PM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Species8472

I did my best but 19 yo daughter was for Ron Paul. And yes, there was enough overlap between Paul and other Republicans that he and his folllowers should be treated with respect. The Republicans needed every vote. And we will the next election. It never hurts to be kind at least to those who actually may vote for you.

The economy tanked at a very inopportune moment, Bush seemed clueless, and the war was not popular. And our candidate was clueless.

If we are going to do a preventive war 5000 miles away from America, it had better be quick. Now we are faced with the prospect of a SCOTUS with a liberal majority if one of our guys goes down.

SCOTUS is far more important for conservatives than the internal politics of Iraq. Bomb the crap out of Iraq all you want but getting bogged down in a land war is not a good use of political capital. Liberalism/socialism Harry Reid, Pelosi etc unfortunately while not nutty Islamists are right here in our own country and far more dangerous than nutty Muslims 5000 miles from here.


60 posted on 11/30/2008 1:07:07 PM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman (Just say no to circular firing squads.)
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To: rabscuttle385
Article: Dr. Paul has long argued that an economy built on easy credit, insatiable consumption and deficit spending is a time bomb. He backs a national economic model based on savings, investment and production.

I back that economic model, as well. The problem, of course, is centered around the majority of Americans who can't borrow, buy, and save responsibly. It doesn't matter what Dr. Paul argues against. IMHO, three basic groups of voters are driving politics.

One bunch wants handouts for the "wealthy," another wants handouts for the "poor," and the third wants the government to save their 401(k)'s. And all three could not care less how much money the department of the Treasury needs to print to accomplish this madness.

It will be interesting, if I live long enough, to see just how far this idiocy will proceed. Whatever, Dr. Paul- or any other politician- is not going to stop the stupidity that has now become the USSA- United Socialist States of America. Hard times and the threat of imminent destruction might wake up the mob, but I'm not sure about that.
61 posted on 11/30/2008 1:15:49 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: rabscuttle385

I voted for Ron Paul every chance I had...except the last. I won’t let that exception occur in the future.


62 posted on 11/30/2008 1:16:23 PM PST by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: rabscuttle385

“Rod Dreher: Ron Paul, if only we listened”

The problem was not Ron Paul, it was the cereal brigade that was the most vocal of his supporters, and that kind of kookery rubs off eventually on the candidate. Heck, he even validated the kooks by going on the radio show of their pied piper leader. It is really sad because he had some very good ideas especially where the economy is concerned.


63 posted on 11/30/2008 1:28:01 PM PST by Grunthor (bush04 - 62, 040, 610 mccain08 - 58, 164, 693.......Moving left is NOT the answer!)
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To: rabscuttle385

Ron Paul is just another clueless surrender monkey indistinguishable as regards national security from the Party of Treason.


64 posted on 11/30/2008 1:29:21 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: djsherin

Credit is an inseperable element of Capitalism.


65 posted on 11/30/2008 1:30:24 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: Perdogg

“The problem with Ron Paul was his foreign policy.”

WRONG! The problem with Bush is he got us into a war that was based on the mythical WMD. Even Colin Powell stated on national TV that the US intelligence was given false information on WMD and sometimes deliberately. This has weighed heavy on Powells mind and may explain some of the reasons why he switched to being an Obama supporter.


66 posted on 11/30/2008 1:31:30 PM PST by doc
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To: LiberConservative

“And he can take back the “Huckabee is fascist” comment while he’s at it.”

Huckafraud is NOT a fascist. He is a nanny-stater. A fascist-lite.


67 posted on 11/30/2008 1:35:21 PM PST by Grunthor (bush04 - 62, 040, 610 mccain08 - 58, 164, 693.......Moving left is NOT the answer!)
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To: doc

If Powell said that, he somewhat contradicted himself from his interview with Tim Russert on MTP on June 10th, 2007.


68 posted on 11/30/2008 1:35:21 PM PST by Perdogg (01-20-2013 Obama's last day - If we make it)
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To: Species8472

I do think that Ron Paul and his supporters could have been handled with a bit more respect. Yes, he can be a bit loony at times, but he’s right about a lot more than most Republicans are willing to admit.

I voted for McCain in the general election, but I did vote for Ron Paul in the primary, because I was not happy with the way conservatives were shut out of the nominating process.


69 posted on 11/30/2008 1:35:49 PM PST by B Knotts (ConservatismCentral.com)
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To: I see my hands
Friends of Truthers are enemies of the US.

SECONDED.

70 posted on 11/30/2008 1:36:16 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Species8472

“They kicked him (and them) out of the tent, and branded him with a “nutjob” label).”

Too many of his supporters are plainly certifiable. Eventually that stench attaches itself to the candidate that the fruits and nuts love.


71 posted on 11/30/2008 1:38:42 PM PST by Grunthor (bush04 - 62, 040, 610 mccain08 - 58, 164, 693.......Moving left is NOT the answer!)
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To: arrogantsob
Credit is an inseperable element of Capitalism.

Agreed...As water is an indispensable element for sustaining life... Of course, a tidal wave of water or credit can have terrible consequences.
72 posted on 11/30/2008 1:45:12 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: LibLieSlayer

Actually...Paul is not anti-trade. He is a Libertarian, so he naturally is pro-free trade (unfortunately, whether such free trade is destructive for America or not).


73 posted on 11/30/2008 1:46:33 PM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (2010: A RINO Purge Odyssey)
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To: mcshot

I think Ron Paul served a purpose in this campaign that may pay dividends in the future. Many young people who normally would grow up into nanny staters have been introduced to some conservative principles because of their association with the Ron Paul movement.


74 posted on 11/30/2008 1:49:32 PM PST by Zevonismymuse
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To: Perdogg
The problem with Ron Paul was his foreign policy.

So the foreign policy of pouring a trillion dollars into Iraq, mortgaging our nation's future, is somehow not "a problem?"

75 posted on 11/30/2008 1:50:07 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Piers-the-Ploughman

Your post makes sense...unfortunately some on here will accuse you of being pro-terrorist and anti-war

Going to war in Iraq was a good idea...however GWB lost his committment to win it...and prefered playing liberal globalist social engineer instead.

Then, McCain comes up with his “we’ll stay in Iraq 100 years”....real stupid...and no committment to win


76 posted on 11/30/2008 1:50:53 PM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (2010: A RINO Purge Odyssey)
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To: rabscuttle385

N-i-c-e deconstruction.

Should be read and digested by every so/con as we move foward to wrest the party from the filthy hands of these imposters.


77 posted on 11/30/2008 1:57:50 PM PST by Liz (The right to be left alone is the beginning of freedom. USSC Justice William O. Douglas)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

It is strange that to be against a prolonged land war, waged with American blood to “bring democracy” to a bunch of nutty Islamic nations (if Clinton did this, it’s “nation-building”) who have very peculiar ideas about truth, as opposed to cutting taxes and taking on the libs over immigration, global warming, energy etc that some FReepers will bash me as pro-terrorist. Yeah, we have different priorities, no doubt, but to say I am pro-terrorist (and you’re right, I have elicited such responses) is absurd and if that is how conservatives wish to debate it is no wonder we lost the moderate vote, which we need some of every election to win.
I will say: we should not let any more Muslims/Arabs in this country and kick out all we can legally, let their visas expire, no more jobs, etc. But then, they will work for less money in scientific/academic professions than Americans, so Uncle Sam wants them here. Yeah, I am pro-terrorist.


78 posted on 11/30/2008 2:03:11 PM PST by Piers-the-Ploughman (Just say no to circular firing squads.)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
Going to war in Iraq was a good idea...

Whatever history thinks about this comment, I happen to agree with it, GDubya will go to his grave defending his decision as the correct one-- provided the US is spared another 9/11 type massive assault prior to sometime on the afternoon of Jan. 20, 2009.
79 posted on 11/30/2008 2:11:55 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: arrogantsob

There’s good credit and bad credit or in other words credit based on savings and credit created from the stroke of a pen. No one is saying credit has to go.


80 posted on 11/30/2008 2:15:02 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: rabscuttle385
Out of this destruction, some creative young conservatives may rise up and decide to take back the Republican Party. Perhaps they'll run against the overweening power of the federal government and in favor of decentralizing power (but unlike today's Republicans, they'll actually mean it). Maybe they'll fight for an America that lives responsibly, within its natural limits both overseas and at home. And maybe, just maybe, they might make the Republican Party worth following again.

Ping to read later

81 posted on 11/30/2008 2:17:23 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: CyberAnt

I hate to burst your bubble, but Ronald Reagan had good things to say about libertarianism. What’s your problem? Of do you just like to lose.

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.”

From Interview with President Reagan, published in Reason July 1975

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan


82 posted on 11/30/2008 2:17:29 PM PST by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: PerConPat

It is interesting to observe business cycles and the credit aspect of them. No matter people don’t learn and keep doing the things which impact and drive the business cycle.

Credit abuses are something which cannot be avoided without crushing the economy in general.


83 posted on 11/30/2008 2:18:58 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: Perdogg

Agreed


84 posted on 11/30/2008 2:20:52 PM PST by My Favorite Headache (Forget the 3AM phone call. Obama can not even answer the phone at 3PM.)
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To: djsherin

If the government is not dictating social engineering through credit it generally is not a problem. Remove that aspect of it.


85 posted on 11/30/2008 2:21:35 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: mvpel
Some say the problem was Ron Paul's wise non-interventionist foreign policy...... yet US foreign policy of pouring a trillion dollars into Iraq, mortgaging our nation's future, is somehow not "a problem?"

One of the more brilliant and incisive comments made by Dr Paul at one of the debates was that "we in the US cannot comprehend the Mideast mindset"........a 1000-year old mindset beset by generations of religious/sectarian infighting.

==============================================

OVER A CLIFF The Pukeneos blithely announced they wanted "to spread democracy" (a 200-year old experiment) into the democracy-averse Mideast but the pukes hidden agenda crafted in secret at tax-paid three-hour lunches in posh restaurants surfaced a couple trillion tax dollars, and wasted young lives later.

MAKING THE REGION SAFE FOR PERLE'S OIL BUSINESS The Pukes led us over a cliff into Iraq using forged documents ...... and calculatedly manipulated the transfer of massive amounts of US wealth into Mideast hellholes (and into the pockets of war profiteers). Puke poobah Richard Perle, is actually going into the oil business in Iraq-----thanks to blood spilled by young Americans, and his cut of trillions of US tax dollars.

Anybody in the party who was infected by the pukeneos must be ousted.....to be redeemed only if the Infected One publicly renounces The Pukes and all they stand for.

The puke cancer has been eating away the party structure far too long. The pukes stupid political strategy supported loser after loser----they flacked McCain, Ghouliani, Mehlman, Martinez.......the list goes on and on.

Giuliani's prez campaign, masterminded by the pukes, made history as the singular most stupid campign in American political history.

Conservatives have witnessed the disastrous results of America-hating, abortion worshippung pukes let loose on our political system.

The nincompooneos kicked so/cons to the curb, and are obsessed with religious cleansing.

Worst of all, Pukeneos foisted amnesty on the US, saddling us with millions of drug runners and criminals undermining US ntl security........and conniving Third World lowlifes using multiple stolen identities who have destroyed our economy.

Course, it's difficult for dumbheaded nincompoopneos to figure it out, so let's be clear: the entire nauseating pukeneo cabal needs to stay away....far away. Includes David Frum, Michael Gerson, David Brooks, little Billy Kristol and his Daddy, Dumbo document forger Douglas Feith, Rooty Ghouliani, Lieberman (plus the termite pukes who operate sub rosa).

The pukes should not get anywhere near the Repub party, or try influencing the leadership.

Now, if the conservative-hating pukes don't like conservatives and the conservative Republican party----that's too frickin' bad.

86 posted on 11/30/2008 2:26:01 PM PST by Liz (The right to be left alone is the beginning of freedom. USSC Justice William O. Douglas)
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To: arrogantsob

With Fractional Reserve Banking, too much credit will always be a problem, but credit is usually extended when the government wants it to be for one reason or another.


87 posted on 11/30/2008 2:27:05 PM PST by djsherin (The federal government:: Because someone has to f*** things up!)
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To: arrogantsob
Credit abuses are something which cannot be avoided without crushing the economy in general.

I think I have the gist of your comment. But I may need clarification. Perhaps credit abuses are unavoidable. However, I would add that credit bubbles- aka credit mania- ought to be avoidable in predominantly honest societies governed by honest leaders.
88 posted on 11/30/2008 2:29:40 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: papasmurf

Saying Yes to Socialism is what has us in such piss poor shape.


89 posted on 11/30/2008 2:32:15 PM PST by Globalist Goon ("Head down over a saddle.")
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To: rabscuttle385

"Ouch---that's the thanks I get for helping you guys win the WH."

90 posted on 11/30/2008 2:33:41 PM PST by Liz (The right to be left alone is the beginning of freedom. USSC Justice William O. Douglas)
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To: PerConPat

Credit bubbles like stock market bubbles and housing bubbles are unavoidable. Hell when speculation can even be in tulips anything is possible in a free society.

Honest societies? Are you under the impression that we used to have one?


91 posted on 11/30/2008 2:41:07 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: doc

There was no myth.

Saddam even had an entire nuclear research program hidden in Libya.

And there were thousands of forbidden weapons found and destroyed. Some of these injured our soldiers who found them.

Saddam kept the programatic capability alive so that the biological and chemical warfare programs would be up and running within months.

Dozens of the top Iraqi scientists working on these programs were assassinated after the invasion.

Weapons were removed to Syria according to Gen. Sada one of Itaq’s top Air Force leaders.

EVERY intelligence agency in the world said the same thing about Saddam’s weapons. EVERY one.

Ron Paul is a fool if he is not aware of these FACTS. He is no better than a RAT in this regard.


92 posted on 11/30/2008 2:47:44 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: B Knotts

How does conservatives being incapable of electing a nominee equate with “being shut out of the nominating process”?

If they were shut out it was because they did not get behind a candidate capable of winning votes but kept putting up people with NO chance.


93 posted on 11/30/2008 2:52:22 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: mvpel

Your description of what is happening is false. Wars are sometimes necessary and Ron Paul’s conception of foreign policy is ludicrous and indistinguishable from that of your typical RAT.


94 posted on 11/30/2008 2:55:09 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: divine_moment_of_facts

“Ron Paul doesn’t seem quite so loony anymore..”

Nah, he still is kooky.

So many whacko things he said are beyond reason and quite frankly frightning.


95 posted on 11/30/2008 2:55:27 PM PST by Names Ash Housewares (Refusing to kneel before the socialist messiah. 1-20-13 Freedom Day.)
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To: RKV

No president has ever been stronger wrt National Security as Reagan. In NO way was it Libertarian. Nor was Ronnie.


96 posted on 11/30/2008 2:57:26 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: arrogantsob
Honest societies? Are you under the impression that we used to have one?

Hmmm...Interesting point...Do you believe that a predominantly honest society is possible? At any rate, when people are without the means to secure credit by other than socialist remedies for what they perceive to be the problems in their lives, e.g. a much too humble house etc., a Barney Frank will be only too helpful to arrange a corrupt loan. It's the chicken or the egg, again. I believe bubbles are avoidable if the majority of a society is honest. But, if one believes honest societies can't exist, then economic disaster is certainly on the way at all times.

I am not yet willing to believe that the current mess is the result of the ups and downs of a typical business cycle.
97 posted on 11/30/2008 2:58:54 PM PST by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.-- Mencken)
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To: rabscuttle385

How come you didn’t mention any conservatives in your post?


98 posted on 11/30/2008 2:59:42 PM PST by USAFJeeper
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To: Liz

Ron Paul is pretty much clueless about everything and certainly has no idea about how to grow the GOP. He probably thinks top flight medical treatment is bleeding.

Just another RAT in disguise.


99 posted on 11/30/2008 3:00:20 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: arrogantsob

Because Democrats and Independents were allowed to choose our nominee.


100 posted on 11/30/2008 3:01:22 PM PST by B Knotts (ConservatismCentral.com)
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