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Pentagon to Detail Troops to Bolster Domestic Security
Washington Post ^ | Monday, December 1, 2008 | Spencer S. Hsu and Ann Scott Tyson

Posted on 12/01/2008 7:52:18 AM PST by Historix

The U.S. military expects to have 20,000 uniformed troops inside the United States by 2011 trained to help state and local officials respond to a nuclear terrorist attack or other domestic catastrophe, according to Pentagon officials.

The long-planned shift in the Defense Department's role in homeland security was recently backed with funding and troop commitments after years of prodding by Congress and outside experts, defense analysts said.

There are critics of the change, in the military and among civil liberties groups and libertarians who express concern that the new homeland emphasis threatens to strain the military and possibly undermine the Posse Comitatus Act, a 130-year-old federal law restricting the military's role in domestic law enforcement.

But the Bush administration and some in Congress have pushed for a heightened homeland military role since the middle of this decade, saying the greatest domestic threat is terrorists exploiting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

Before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, dedicating 20,000 troops to domestic response -- a nearly sevenfold increase in five years -- "would have been extraordinary to the point of unbelievable," Paul McHale, assistant defense secretary for homeland defense, said in remarks last month at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. But the realization that civilian authorities may be overwhelmed in a catastrophe prompted "a fundamental change in military culture," he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: banglist; civiliantroops; dod; homelandsecurity; immigration; possecomitatus
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1 posted on 12/01/2008 7:52:18 AM PST by Historix
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To: Historix

“But the Bush administration and some in Congress have pushed for a heightened homeland military role since the middle of this decade, saying the greatest domestic threat is terrorists exploiting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.”

-It’s a good thing Bush sealed the border so we don’t have to worry about it as much.


2 posted on 12/01/2008 7:53:54 AM PST by happinesswithoutpeace (You are receiving this broadcast as a dream)
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To: Historix

The Posse Commitatus Act needs revising, but it does give me pause having thousands of military assuming national law enforcement duties under the next President.


3 posted on 12/01/2008 7:56:06 AM PST by AU72
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To: happinesswithoutpeace

Ya, rediculous, let’s don’t seal the border or profile airline passengers, instead, let’s gear up from the eventual attack that we are going to just let happen. The USA doesn’t deserve to exist any longer frankly, it has forfeighted it’s inheritance ...


4 posted on 12/01/2008 7:56:07 AM PST by Scythian
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To: happinesswithoutpeace
I am waiting for the leftist who bitched about the Patriot act to start complaining about this!
5 posted on 12/01/2008 7:56:38 AM PST by Perdogg (01-20-2013 Obama's last day - If we make it)
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To: Historix

Will these troops soon be tranferred and issued new uniforms with National Civilian Security Force markings...something like a pair of lightning bolts, perhaps?


6 posted on 12/01/2008 7:57:08 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Nepolean fries the idea powder)
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To: Historix

They’re preparing for the coming revolution. They’ll send southern rural troops against the inner cities, and urban troops against the southern suburbs and rural areas.

< /tin foil hat >


7 posted on 12/01/2008 7:57:23 AM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Perdogg
I am waiting for the leftist who bitched about the Patriot act to start complaining about this!

Are those the same ones who complained that President Bush allowed (or caused) New Orleans to flood because he didn't send in troops within minutes of Katrina's landfall?

8 posted on 12/01/2008 7:59:10 AM PST by KarlInOhio (11/4: The revolutionary socialists beat the Fabian ones. Where can we find a capitalist party?)
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To: Historix

This is but one more example of how government puts bandaids on a problem instead of fixing the problem.

Oh well, I guess it will make the illegal Mexicans feel right at home. For decades the Mexicans have had their Federales set up roadblocks to check out papers held by drivers.


9 posted on 12/01/2008 8:00:15 AM PST by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: happinesswithoutpeace

This is very bad and runs contrary to our American traditiosns of civilian control. This is another dangerous Bush legacy for Obama.


10 posted on 12/01/2008 8:08:08 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: AU72
"...but it does give me pause having thousands of military assuming national law enforcement duties..."

Precisely. Combat and law enforcement are two entirely different undertakings. Anyone who equates the two as being even remotely similar has no business being involved in either one. Mixing the two has proven a disaster everywhere it's been tried. Who's going to call the shots, and under what conditions? What's the tripwire for suspension of the Constitution's 10th amendment, and by what mechanism will it be restored?
11 posted on 12/01/2008 8:08:43 AM PST by PowderMonkey (Will Work for Ammo)
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To: KarlInOhio

The “leftists” won’t complain about this because they now control the troops! It is the conservatives who supported this kind of thing that will have reason to complain. Unfortunately, many of them won’t have a leg to stand on in terms of principle.


12 posted on 12/01/2008 8:09:41 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: AU72

I believe under Posse Comitatus, the military is allowed to be used for training civilian law enforcement and they are allowed to ‘loan’ their equipment, etc. But, the military is not supposed to take an active role in LE unless LE is unable to do so. And we are clearly not in that situation.

This whole thing concerns me because I see it starting off as a training session, then tip toe’ing over the line, then revising laws to ignore the purpose of Posse Comitatus.

It sounds like this is where BO’s Domestic Civilian Security Force starts.


13 posted on 12/01/2008 8:12:55 AM PST by HollyB
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To: All

I do not agree with this at all..

Despite the call to reform the Act. Military troops are not the right way to go within the borders. Basically the troops are trained to defend the country though combat power.. not domestic duties outside of the gates of the installations.

But.. this is not the only thing happening in the military that seems crazy since I went and retired.


14 posted on 12/01/2008 8:13:17 AM PST by Kitanis
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To: Historix

Best way to start a fight is to get right up in someones face.
My Government is getting in my face.


15 posted on 12/01/2008 8:14:42 AM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Kitanis

It would seem President Bush gave Obama all of the tools he will need, it hardly seems by chance.


16 posted on 12/01/2008 8:15:39 AM PST by Scythian
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To: HollyB

Yes, BO has Bush and other Republicans to thank for it! Maybe, conservatives will start being suspicious of the federal police state again, as they were under Clinton. We can only hope they will continue to remain so even if a Republican comes back to power.


17 posted on 12/01/2008 8:17:00 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Scythian

I find it very strange too that Bush would do this. I would have expected BO to have implemented this allowing him to train his civlian force. This is getting stranger by the day. Where’s my tinfoil?


18 posted on 12/01/2008 8:17:48 AM PST by HollyB
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To: Historix

We have the national guard for that - I don’t buy the premise for this “need”.

We get all this security, now I wonder how much liberty its going to cast us.


19 posted on 12/01/2008 8:20:30 AM PST by WorkerbeeCitizen (An inadequately policed Conservative)
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To: happinesswithoutpeace
-It’s a good thing Bush sealed the border so we don’t have to worry about it as much.

Thank God for that! If Bush hadn't worked so hard to secure the border since 9/11, I'd be really worried about terrorists sneaking something across! After all, before Bush sealed the border, the druggies were pushing ton after ton after ton of drugs across the border. Imagine what dedicated terrorists could smuggle across! Since then, they haven't been able to get any inside the country, right??

It's also a good thing that Bush and the other Republicans pushed the PATRIOT ACT through, etc., because after all, Democrats would never get control of the White House and Congress, and then abuse those powers....
20 posted on 12/01/2008 8:22:51 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: HollyB
And this is why I shuddered when Bush created the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.

Thanks to all the short-sighted "conservatives" who may well find themselves being branded domestic terrorists by the marxist government scheduled to be sworn in January 20,2009.

21 posted on 12/01/2008 8:24:17 AM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: Scythian
It would seem President Bush gave Obama all of the tools he will need, it hardly seems by chance.

It is getting into tinfoil territory....
22 posted on 12/01/2008 8:24:52 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: JimRed

What crimes are these home forces going to fight?


23 posted on 12/01/2008 8:26:41 AM PST by bmwcyle (McCain had no honor when he failed to defend Sarah Palin, Leno was not enough)
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To: af_vet_rr

It is not “tinfoil” to distrust federal use of the military for police enforcment purposes....that is unless you want to call Jefferson, Paine, and Adams “tinfoil.”


24 posted on 12/01/2008 8:30:17 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Historix

All I can say is:

Look at my tagline.


25 posted on 12/01/2008 8:31:50 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware of Obama's Reichstag Fire; Don't permit him to seize emergency powers.)
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To: bmwcyle

“What crimes are these home forces going to fight?”

Bill Ayers seriously planned camps for 25 million resistant to his version of “hope” and “change.” What do you think?


26 posted on 12/01/2008 8:33:22 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware of Obama's Reichstag Fire; Don't permit him to seize emergency powers.)
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To: hoosierham
Thanks to all the short-sighted "conservatives" who may well find themselves being branded domestic terrorists by the marxist government scheduled to be sworn in January 20,2009.

Funny how that works out. Those "conservatives" had all kinds of names for us when we were saying "hey, before we start passing a bunch of stuff in the name of "homeland security", maybe we ought to think about what would happen if a Democrat gets into office, and gets a Democratic Congress as well.".
27 posted on 12/01/2008 8:35:12 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: MeanWestTexan
I had my thought about storm troopers but I was asking the poster who had to tin foil hat someone else. Is America so dangerous (except for our inner cities that we don't have to visit) that we need troops with guns and tanks running down our streets?
28 posted on 12/01/2008 8:36:10 AM PST by bmwcyle (McCain had no honor when he failed to defend Sarah Palin, Leno was not enough)
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To: Captain Kirk

You are correct, but unfortunately the Bush supporters will see anybody who questions this as a tinfoil wearing something-rather, and they will do their best to defend his decisions.


29 posted on 12/01/2008 8:36:26 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr; bang_list
Sounds like BHO has been reading the Banglist and other pro-2nd Amendment forums lately and is preparing for the worst.
30 posted on 12/01/2008 8:36:48 AM PST by tx4guns (Guns don't murder people; stupid people murder people.)
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To: Historix

Well, I guess we can ignore Posse Comititatus now. It’s for “security,” after all. Unbelievable.


31 posted on 12/01/2008 8:37:17 AM PST by mysterio
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To: Historix
So bascially a reinforced DIVISION of troops will be sitting around waiting to respond to some event and can go enforce the law under Presidential authority.

POLICE STATE here we are.

32 posted on 12/01/2008 8:38:49 AM PST by Centurion2000 (To protect and defend ... against all enemies, foreign and domestic .... by any means necessary.)
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To: Historix

Bad news. Mark the date.


33 posted on 12/01/2008 8:39:33 AM PST by ncpatriot
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To: Historix
"There are critics of the change, in the military and among civil liberties groups and libertarians ..."

SmileyCentral.com

34 posted on 12/01/2008 8:42:52 AM PST by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
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To: HollyB

In retrospect it seems hard to believe that Bush-McCain and the Obama forces were seen as having been on opposite sides.


35 posted on 12/01/2008 8:44:42 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
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To: Historix

Please Mr. Conservative (insert sarcasm here) President Bush, go ahead and do one more bone-headed act before you leave office!


36 posted on 12/01/2008 8:45:10 AM PST by BlackjackPershing ("Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.")
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To: Captain Kirk

Agreed.


37 posted on 12/01/2008 8:45:30 AM PST by Lorianne
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To: bmwcyle

“Is America so dangerous (except for our inner cities that we don’t have to visit) that we need troops with guns and tanks running down our streets?”

You know, it probably is.

Think about what would happen if a small nuke went off in LA or a like city. Think of the rioting and mass of criminals who would take advantage of the civil unrest. Think of the people who are incapable of surving on their own (New Orleans).

That said, the danger of a Reichstag situation where a utopian opportunist uses some real disaster like an attack seize power is very real.

I mean, the Dhims try now to rig elections (Minnesota comes to mind).

Just think what they would do in a real emergency.

And law-and-order conservatives would be the first to back up and circle the wagon around the government.


38 posted on 12/01/2008 8:46:49 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware of Obama's Reichstag Fire; Don't permit him to seize emergency powers.)
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To: AU72
The Posse Commitatus Act needs revising, but it does give me pause having thousands of military assuming national law enforcement duties under the next President.

The reason we don't have military law enforcement, is we don't want people trained to automatically obey the orders of their superiors, and without training in what UNLAWFUL orders need to be rejected, doing enforcement on the streets.

And for domestic emergencies, that's what the National Guard is for.

I would much prefer for National Guard to be given federal CCW authorization throughout the US (after suitable training), even in states that prohibit CCW.

39 posted on 12/01/2008 8:48:25 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (Question O-thority)
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To: MeanWestTexan

The Road to Serfdom

by Friedrich A. Hayek

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Back to Mises.org
40 posted on 12/01/2008 8:48:44 AM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (The best thread on FreeRepublic is here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1990507/posts)
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To: Historix

The best possible Homeland Defense, IMO, would to offer a concealed carry permit to every citizen who is not a felon.


41 posted on 12/01/2008 8:49:38 AM PST by conqueror (an armed society is a polite society)
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To: Historix
So we have lawyers interfering with military and intelligence operations, and now the prospect of the military interfering in law enforcement. Great.

BLOAT!!

42 posted on 12/01/2008 8:51:32 AM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (The best thread on FreeRepublic is here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1990507/posts)
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To: JimRed; Kitanis; bmwcyle
They’ll send southern rural troops against the inner cities, and urban troops against the southern suburbs and rural areas.

Interesting. I think we did something exactly like that vis-a-vis JEB Stuart's rednecks in the north and Sherman's city boys in the rural south a while back.

43 posted on 12/01/2008 9:01:16 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: AU72
but it does give me pause having thousands of military assuming national law enforcement duties under the next President.

Remember the N.O. Police chief saying: We are taking the guns. Nobody will be allowed to have guns but the military and the police. Then they brought in combat hardened troops from gun control states like Illinois to go dough to dough and seize them evil weapoons.

Perfect timing for Prez Hussein. I'll bet he's got his list and he's checkin' it twice....

44 posted on 12/01/2008 9:04:00 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: HollyB
"I believe under Posse Comitatus, the military is allowed to be used for training civilian law enforcement and they are allowed to ‘loan’ their equipment, etc..."

Put simply, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 merely states that the Army cannot be used to fulfill a domestic role without the express authorization of Congress. I remain unimpressed by the tissue paper barrier imposed by congressional authorization.
45 posted on 12/01/2008 9:08:17 AM PST by PowderMonkey (Will Work for Ammo)
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To: Kitanis

It’s hard enough to train local law enforcement in my state that open carry of defensive firearms is legal and not a valid basis for stopping and questioning someone absent any other element, so I can’t possibly imagine what it’d be like with military personnel.


46 posted on 12/01/2008 9:09:27 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Historix

Any mention of putting some troops on the border?


47 posted on 12/01/2008 9:11:38 AM PST by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925)
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To: Scythian; Historix
let’s gear up from the eventual attack that we are going to just let happen. The USA doesn’t deserve to exist any longer frankly, it has forfeighted it’s inheritance ...

I recommend a dark short story titled "Diner" from Perpetuity Blues and other stories by Neal Barrett, Jr.

It really tempers my thinking on these things.

It's a disturbing prevision of a post-nuclear Southeast Texas fishing community, occupied by Chinese communist peacekeepers. Think of a day when illegal mexicans are the least of your worries, and hell, your trading partners for food.

The way I look at it, the USA doesn't actually exist anymore. We are living the beginning of the post-Constitutional period. Last true demonstration of the Constitution was BillJeff's impeachment.

48 posted on 12/01/2008 9:16:57 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: AuntB

This only makes it that much easier to move from capitalism to socialism/Marxism.


49 posted on 12/01/2008 9:17:56 AM PST by yorkie01
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To: sam_paine
The way I look at it, the USA doesn't actually exist anymore. We are living the beginning of the post-Constitutional period.

I totally agree, even the Obama birth certificate story I read said they will not ask him to prove he is a citizen because the Gore/Bush fiasco of late. Basically, law doesn't matter, the constitution has been discounted, we are off the tracks ...
50 posted on 12/01/2008 9:23:32 AM PST by Scythian
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