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Thomas Breaks Tradition: Forces Supreme Court to Look at Obama Citizenship Case
THE AFRO-AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS ^ | 12/3/08 | James Wright, AFRO Staff Reporter

Posted on 12/03/2008 11:43:31 PM PST by BP2

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To: calenel; so_real

“And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States.”

Nor does it preclude the possibility of dual citizenship.


101 posted on 12/04/2008 3:56:11 AM PST by calenel (The Democratic Party is a Criminal Enterprise. It is the Socialist Mafia.)
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To: BP2

Where do you get that definition of “natural born” citizen?


102 posted on 12/04/2008 4:01:53 AM PST by slnk_rules (http://mises.org)
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To: BP2
President Ronald Reagan:
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream.
It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same,
or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children
and our children's children what it was once like in the United States
where men were free.
"

103 posted on 12/04/2008 4:02:36 AM PST by Diogenesis
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To: Chet 99

The difference is that the McCains were in Panama on military assignment. So there is no question about McPain being “natural born”. Otherwise, military persons would be discriminated against.


104 posted on 12/04/2008 4:10:42 AM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: John Valentine
"Contemporary commentary I have read indicates that the phrase was intended to reach the children of anyone who did not fall within the complete and unitary 'jusrisdiction thereof', in other words, no competing jusisdiction existed.

"This encompassed many classes of individuals beyond those described."

But several SCOTUS rulings cited on this thread disagree, or at least disagree with the claim that Obama is not a citizen on the basis of his father's citizenship status alone. We can argue that a SCOTUS ruling was wrong or misguided, but we cannot arbitrarily wave them away. Perhaps, had I been on the SCOTUS for Wong Kim Ark I would have agreed with the dissenting minority, or perhaps not. I know for sure that I would have been on the other side of Roe v. Wade. That doesn't and won't change the law of the land.

Maybe there should be a law - or better yet, a Constitutional Amendment, since such a law would likely not survive a Constitutional challenge - to define in no uncertain terms who is eligible to be President, since the definition we have now has apparently lost clarity.

105 posted on 12/04/2008 4:10:44 AM PST by calenel (The Democratic Party is a Criminal Enterprise. It is the Socialist Mafia.)
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To: BP2

“Please, journalists, PLEASE — learn the difference! They are NOT the same.”

Don’t you think it is being reported this way on purpose? Journalist are telling 1/2 truth just the way the media loves to report.


106 posted on 12/04/2008 4:11:11 AM PST by blueyon (Every one will have their 15 mins under the bus)
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To: BP2

And THAT is where the other side’s argument will go if Zero is found to be an illegitimate candidate. What happens then? Would that mean that Bush stays on or would the unthinkable occur? (see Pelosi)


107 posted on 12/04/2008 4:12:57 AM PST by SueRae
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To: Diogenesis

Good citing, unfortunately Sandra Day O’Connor and Anthony Kennedy do not fit the definition.


108 posted on 12/04/2008 4:13:47 AM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: TChris
Natural Born

So what is the difference between Natural Born Citizen and Citizen at Birth?

109 posted on 12/04/2008 4:15:56 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: BP2; Calpernia; Fred Nerks; null and void; pissant; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; Polarik; ...

Ping.


110 posted on 12/04/2008 4:16:27 AM PST by LucyT
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To: Big_Monkey
....The children of illegal aliens are most certainly NOT “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”, and are NOT US citizens by circumstance of birth on American soil.....

They certainly ARE, under current law. The thing for Congress to do (which it has refused to do so far) is to define "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" as excluding those in the country illegally. This would do an "end run" around the 14th, which was written to avoid declassifying blacks as "persons" and not to grant citizenship willy nilly to anyone here.....

However, in saying so, it is important to note that in the 19th century we had NONE of the ridiculous rules for entering this country we now have. The vast majority of the immigrant parents/grandparents of proud freepers who prate about "coming here legally" simply got on a boat with NO PAPERWORK AT ALL. Ellis Island (and scores of other immigrant sites) simply procesed them through, with papers or as WOPS (without papers, the origin of this Italian slur). The idea of passive eager immigrants lining up to get their "visa" outside the slovokian embassy is so idiotic as to be absurd.

Our immigrant problems are NOT the result of Mexican peasants who are lawbreaking goldbricks, eager to exploit our federal grabbag of giveaways. The problems stem from our welfare system and endless "programs" themselves. We are afraid to admit people who, even with unemployment tickling 7%, without whom large sections of our service industries would simply collapse. If we admitted them legally, they will be swarmed by "social" organizations pumping them to ride that gravy train. I have seen it happen.

Immigrations should be EASY to get here legally, and HARD to get here illegally. Once here legally, no "benefits" to non citizens. Of course, our federal gov't has the situation reversed. Natch.

111 posted on 12/04/2008 4:16:50 AM PST by slnk_rules (http://mises.org)
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To: Windflier
The children of illegal aliens are most certainly NOT "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", and are NOT US citizens by circumstance of birth on American soil.

Yes they are. Subject to the jurisdiction means subject to our laws. Regardless of whether they are here legally or illegally, the immigrant can be arrested if they violate the law. Contrast that with a foreign representative protected by diplomatic immunity and not subject to the laws.

112 posted on 12/04/2008 4:19:50 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Windflier
There is a great deal of difference. Only a Natural Born Citizen can become President. For that, you have to be born on US soil, to two US parents.

And where is that defined by law exactly?

113 posted on 12/04/2008 4:20:55 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Bronwynn
What is amazing in that Senate Resolution declared that McCain was a natural born citizen because he had two American parents and was born on an American military base, when in fact McCain knew all along that he had not been born on a military base but in a hospital in Colon, Panama which the birth certificate he later released showed.

Is that why he never raised the issue during the campaign???

114 posted on 12/04/2008 4:21:27 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: BP2
That is fact and will probably disqualify McCain too, who was born in Panama.

That's Donofrio's arguement.

115 posted on 12/04/2008 4:23:10 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: FFranco
Obama’s mother was under 21 when he was born and his father was not a US citizen. That’s why he’s not a natural born citizen.

If he was born in the U.S. then yes he is.

116 posted on 12/04/2008 4:24:21 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: slnk_rules
If we admitted them legally, they will be swarmed by "social" organizations pumping them to ride that gravy train. I have seen it happen.

Some boat people from Vietnam I know said that they were pressed very hard by social services to sign on to everything they could possibly get. They said that they didn't need all that but wondered if they could have some kind of medical insurance for the kids until they got established financially. They were told all or nothing. They said that they came here to be free and declined everything. Their kids are now all grown and every one of them professionals in medicine, finance, and academics. Their motto was "God first, then family, then education."
117 posted on 12/04/2008 4:26:04 AM PST by aruanan
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To: JennysCool
Not at all. He was born to two Americans in what was an American protectorate.

He was born to two Americans in a hospital in Colon, Panama. By law he is a natural born U.S. citizen. By any logical definition of the word he is a natural born U.S. citizen. But by Donofrio's definition, he is not because he was not born on U.S. territory.

118 posted on 12/04/2008 4:26:21 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: BP2
“There is no way that anyone can argue about whether Barack Obama is a citizen,” Singer said.

"Because I won't allow it, and I am going to move the goalposts!" he continued.

119 posted on 12/04/2008 4:30:27 AM PST by 50sDad (-/\/\/\- Obama's coming; be a Resistor!)
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To: Chet 99
If you’re born in the United States, you are a citizen of the US. Period.

And likewise, if you are not part of a well-regulated militia, you'd better turn your guns in right now.

120 posted on 12/04/2008 4:32:02 AM PST by 50sDad (-/\/\/\- Obama's coming; be a Resistor!)
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