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Can These Hybrid Cars Save Detroit? (NO! US Automakers beyond repair with the UAW in charge)
abc ^ | 12/4/2008 | SCOTT MAYEROWITZ

Posted on 12/04/2008 4:09:22 AM PST by tobyhill

The buzzword out of Detroit these days seems to be "hybrid."

As the Big Three automaker CEOs return to Washington today -- arriving by hybrid vehicles instead of private jets -- they will try to sell Congress on turnaround plans focusing on an aggressive new line of fuel-efficient cars.

Lawmakers might buy the plans from Ford, General Motors and Chrysler, but it is going to be a lot harder to sell American drivers on the hybrid cars.

The key may be gas prices.

Maryann Keller, who runs an automotive consulting company, said that people lined up to buy more-efficient cars only after gas topped $4 a gallon.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: automakers; detroit; electricvehicles; energy; hybrids; hybridvehicles

1 posted on 12/04/2008 4:09:22 AM PST by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

About 730 days late and billions of dollars short.


2 posted on 12/04/2008 4:12:28 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner (Sarah Palin is a smart missile aimed at the heart of the left!)
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To: tobyhill

Could someone explain again why the other companies manufacturing cars in the US are doing fine? Toyota, Honda, Nissan and others, right?

Capitalism should not be about old, established companies being given a pass on basic management, and rewarded for failure. Let ‘em go down. The economy is going to be a bloodbath regardless.

No pain, no gain.


3 posted on 12/04/2008 4:16:04 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
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To: tobyhill

Filing chapter 11 is the only way to save the auto industry.


4 posted on 12/04/2008 4:17:31 AM PST by Dustbunny (Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged. The Gipper)
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To: tobyhill

I keep asking the same question. Why is it the auto maker’s responsibility to solve our energy crisis.

We are the only country in the world that does not use it’s own resources.

Our men and women have to die in wars over oil and we still do nothing to extract our own oil and natural gas from the land and sea.


5 posted on 12/04/2008 4:25:39 AM PST by Carley (Prayers for Sgt. Eddie Ryan)
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To: Dustbunny
Filing chapter 11 is the only way to save the auto industry.

I am afraid you are right...The Unions have forced this situation and if we bail out the car industry the problem is still there in 3 to 4 years...The car industry will only survive if they can get out from underneath those crazy deals cut with the UAW. If not, and Chap 11 is filed, then the chips fall where they may.....Well, if the UAW fails to renegotiate prior to same they then did a disservice to their union brothers. There will be no depression if the car industry declares chap 11...except for the UAW and the towns where the majority of those UAW workers live. The rest of America will simply purchase foreign cars until a stronger more lien American car product can be produced and placed on the market. Again, in my book, bailing out this auto mess is a joke and only a band-aide to the real problem...the UAW.

6 posted on 12/04/2008 4:27:31 AM PST by never4get (We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid)
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To: tobyhill

Plenty of blame to go around in the auto industry.

However, it is, or would be, relatively easy to reform management, especially now. Its probably a good idea. But it isn’t enough.

Likely, it past time for some major restructuring at the big 3. Probably less models, less marques, maybe each manufucturer will focus on fewer segments. More automation might help too. But it won’t be enough.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with a union (or unions) representing labor in the auto industry. It could be a good thing. However, the current union, is going to have to change radically, and the labor situation will also have to.

It goes way beyond salaries, although that’s a huge part of the problem. The barrier to automation, the inability to fire incompetent, drugged, dangerous, or unwilling workers, the classification of everyone who walks into the facility as an “auto worker” - these cannot be sustained.

It’s too bad there aren’t some visionaries in the UAW who could see the writing on the wall, and actually work towards making their collective employers profitable, with better-than-average salaries and benefits which went to well-trained, willing, and competent workers even if there ended up being far less of those workers when the dust cleared.

Do that, along with the reform of management and product, and the auto industry would be on a good footing. Do one or two without the other, and they’re just prolonging the inevitable.

Just MHO.


7 posted on 12/04/2008 4:31:27 AM PST by chrisser (The Two Americas: Those that want to be coddled, Those that want to be left the hell alone.)
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To: PreciousLiberty
"Could someone explain again why the other companies manufacturing cars in the US are doing fine?"

The auto inductry is all about economies of scale. There are heavy investments in product design and tooling that need to be recovered by sales. Once the investments are covered, the profits are enormous. It's called the breakeven point. Sales 30% below the breakeven point cause huge losses. The domestics have a high breakeven sales volume to meet. Combining ever decreasing market share (causes a legacy cost issue) along with not being able to make as large a profit on cars as Honda and Toyota hit but a sudden decrease in sales ---> bankruptcy. So, the causes? Management (vehicle design, lack of recognition of long term declining market share), UAW (costs per unit), Congress (credit debacle, high oil prices over the last two years).

8 posted on 12/04/2008 4:32:53 AM PST by Paladin2 (No, pundits strongly believe that the proper solution is more dilution.)
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To: tobyhill
Look at the states that have open shop against the
states where you have to pay union thugs to work.
9 posted on 12/04/2008 4:34:00 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Obama, Change America will die for.)
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To: Carley

I keep asking the same question. Why is it the auto maker’s responsibility to solve our energy crisis.
We are the only country in the world that does not use it’s own resources.

The answer to your question is the Democrat Politcal Party the ACLU and the Envirowackos.
The phony energy crises we have exists only for politics. We could have been energy independent decades ago.


10 posted on 12/04/2008 4:36:39 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Coming to You From the Front Lines of Occupied America)
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To: tobyhill
Depend on how you define hybrid cars. GM says if you put larger jets in the fuel system so it burns moonshine better and less efficient than gas it is a hybrid. GM with just more BS advertising.

They don't care if the moonshine fuel messes up your lawn mower. After all that is an illegals problem.

11 posted on 12/04/2008 4:36:50 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: Paladin2
Nailed it!!!
12 posted on 12/04/2008 4:38:11 AM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: tobyhill
Maryann Keller, who runs an automotive consulting company...

Everyone reading the above line knows exactly, in their mind's eye, what Maryann Keller--who runs an automotive consulting company--looks like, the kind of friends she has, the kind of neighborhood she lives in, and the kind of man she married to.

13 posted on 12/04/2008 4:40:09 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: PreciousLiberty
These guys are no longer around ... they could not compete

Hudson
Packard
Studebaker
American Motors

I am sure there are others.

14 posted on 12/04/2008 4:47:32 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

We will always have a “crisis” of some sort when the gov’t gets involved in things.Trash the EPA,the fleet milage and crash test standards. Let the petroleum industry tap the resources available. Drill more, pump more


15 posted on 12/04/2008 4:50:31 AM PST by NameOnFile (.........Less gov't. is a good thing!.....)
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To: tobyhill

Break up the unions. They have served their useful purpose from the turn of the 20th century in protecting workers from evil owners. The foreign automakers do well here because they produce quality products and don’t have the legacy issues the US automakers and airlines all have with huge pensions, healthcare for life, paying people in a jobs bank NOT to work.

Let them fail and Chapter 11 and the bankruptcy courts will help to sort out the mess.


16 posted on 12/04/2008 5:17:21 AM PST by kevinm13 (John 8:32: "And you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.”)
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To: NameOnFile

“We will always have a “crisis” of some sort when the gov’t gets involved in things.”

I must say I remain suspicious that both the runup in oil prices and the current financial meltdown were both planned by the influential with an 0bama kind of result in mind.

Yeah, tin-foil hat stuff, however the timing remains MIGHTY convenient.

On the upside, global warming is looking fairly indefensible these days - that’s good news!


17 posted on 12/04/2008 5:18:59 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
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To: Carley
"Our men and women have to die in wars over oil"

Really? Which wars have we fought so that we can plunder another nations' oil reserves???

18 posted on 12/04/2008 5:59:01 AM PST by cweese (Hook 'em Horns!!!)
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To: tobyhill
Something worth noting about hybrids is that they aren't likely to "save Detroit" even if they were popular among buyers.

I read somewhere that Toyota won't produce them at their plants here in the U.S. because they aren't confident enough about the ability of their U.S. workers to meet the company's quality standards with a new, high-tech car model that hasn't stood the test of time.

So there's a good chance that the Big Three would end up either producing hybrids that don't work, or they'd have to outsource their production to places like Japan or Europe anyway.

19 posted on 12/04/2008 6:09:38 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Carley

You are 1000% right! That’s one thousand percent!


20 posted on 12/04/2008 6:20:00 AM PST by RoadTest (By their fruits shall ye know them.)
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To: cweese

It’s not about our taking their oil. It’s about seeing that the oil is not in control of Al Qaeda, as it would love to see in Saudi Arabia.

What would we do, wait for Saddam Hussein to march back into Kuwait and make a run for Saudi Arabia’s oil fields before we took action.

People who insist the Saudi Royal family ought to be brought down never see that OBL wants that more than anything.


21 posted on 12/04/2008 6:24:10 AM PST by Carley (Prayers for Sgt. Eddie Ryan)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

“The phony energy crises we have exists only for politics.”

One more thing than politics. Profit.

IBM ran a full page ad in Automotive News bragging that you and I and our neighbors will spend $105,000,000,000 (billion) on being green (not dressing like Kermit the frog but paying dues to the Global Warming idol)


22 posted on 12/04/2008 6:24:51 AM PST by RoadTest (By their fruits shall ye know them.)
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To: SECURE AMERICA

And I understand completely why Alaska wanted to secede from the mainland USA.


23 posted on 12/04/2008 6:25:00 AM PST by Carley (Prayers for Sgt. Eddie Ryan)
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To: tobyhill

Why should the already-strapped consumer spend many thousands of dollars more for a hybrid car?

In order for “U.S.” automakers to compete, they will have to move more production overseas.


24 posted on 12/04/2008 7:55:26 AM PST by popdonnelly (Don't lose sight of your conservative principles.)
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To: tobyhill

As I understand it: these hybrid and electric cars do not
generate a profit!


25 posted on 12/04/2008 8:43:21 AM PST by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
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