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Why the stories about Obama's birth certificate will never die
Salon ^ | 12/5/08 | Alex Kopppelman

Posted on 12/05/2008 9:52:12 AM PST by pissant

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To: Don Corleone

Actually there is even more being hidden. He will not release anything documenting his past. College records, anything he accomplished as a community agitator or medical records; they are all unavailable.

It begs the question. WHY?


51 posted on 12/05/2008 10:52:33 AM PST by noway2no (His past is a black hole)
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To: pissant

The leftnuts are scared by this. Smell the fear, and observe their typical liberal, defense tactic of smearing the opposition. What puzzles me is why so many conservatives are so willing to jump onto the leftnut bandwagon to belittle those who don’t believe Obama and his sycophants. Let this play out. If Obama can figure out a way to come out clean, so be it. If not, let the fun go on. Remember, Obama could settle this in short order. He is the reason it is happening.


52 posted on 12/05/2008 10:56:16 AM PST by pallis
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To: pissant

Dear Salon:

Please note that if, by some very remote chance, Obama were found ineligible to serve as President, the conspirary theorists on your side of the aisle would never accept that ruling (by, say, the Supreme Court), nor would they ever let it die.

Your point is what, exactly?

That is all.


53 posted on 12/05/2008 10:56:16 AM PST by fightinJAG (TWO BIG BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE AT THE END OF 2008. Happy New Year, love, President Obama)
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To: LiberConservative

Neither will curiosity for the secret Coca Cola formula die. But whereas anyone can understand why the Corp. of Atlanta might want to keep it a secret, nobody sane can morally justify a president holding back such an easy and innocent “1+1=2” corroborating piece of paper to the point of hiring expensive law firms, and even worse for a “leader” facing the mistrust of a large swathe of the population.

No way, nowhere, no how is it justifiable.

That is why I say, okay, they let you in on a technicality? Fine. Take your oath, but please no speeches about transparency, honor, courage... please nothing beyond the strict confines of the letter of the law. To fill in the time slot, you Mr. Obama can read the condominium rules for the State of Kansas, or the fishing rules for Lake Michigan, but please, nothing about faith, trust, sacrifice, standing united or any of those “extra-judicial” and “leadership” considerations you will find in all the inaugural speeches of past presidents, be they Democrat or Republican. Make your “charade oath”, just go through the motions, but you are no leader of men, you are a client of lawyers to hide 1+1=2.


54 posted on 12/05/2008 10:59:04 AM PST by Mancolicani
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To: pallis

Obama could settle this in short order. He is the reason it is happening.


Repeat LOUD and OFTEN


55 posted on 12/05/2008 11:03:26 AM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Brookhaven

I agree with you.
My parents, at the time of my birth, were BOTH British subjects. My mother worked for the British Army during
WW2. While they were here on Green Cards, their allegiance could still be said to lie with the UK.
Hence, while I was a “Citizen”, I was not a “Natural Born Citizen”.
I learned this over 30 years ago from someone I would regard as very knowlegeable on the subject.


56 posted on 12/05/2008 11:17:05 AM PST by gigster
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To: quintr

Sure it and so is applying for a drivers license and student loans as a foreign national. Assuming of course he is Natural Born.


57 posted on 12/05/2008 11:21:28 AM PST by Vendome
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To: Vendome

I doubt he claimed to be a foreign national for these.

I also think the “born in Kenya” thing is extremely unlikely, in spite of Kenyan tales. And even so, its a slam-dunk that courts would say that “natural born” NOW means born to a US citizen anywhere. Certainly the Supreme Court wouldn’t flinch from adopting that definition. The identity and citizenship of his mother is not in dispute, and he has acted as and been treated as a citizen for 40+ years, so such issues would be seen by nearly everyone (and most courts) as pettifogging.

There is something else hidden there, in the birth certificate and elsewhere, and this controversy was originally an attempt to flush it out.


58 posted on 12/05/2008 11:35:54 AM PST by buwaya
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To: gigster

I don’t think the law would be that inflexible if it came down to it, no matter what argument can be made. The public and the courts would find them unreasonable.

You can run for president without worries !


59 posted on 12/05/2008 11:38:28 AM PST by buwaya
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To: techno; DPMD
Now how do you answer the question that Obama was a natural-born citizen if his father was a British subject at the time?

By your standards, the first "natural-born" U.S. citizen to become President was John Quincy Adams (maybe).
60 posted on 12/05/2008 11:39:20 AM PST by kenavi ("Before you think what you want to think, be sure you know what you ought to know.")
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To: pissant

Het Bammy....just tell us what hospital you were born in and show us your VAULT COPY of your BIRTH! Then we will all go away.


61 posted on 12/05/2008 11:42:06 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience)
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To: Onelifetogive

He MAY have been a Citizen of Indonesia when he was adopted by Sotero.


62 posted on 12/05/2008 11:43:20 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience)
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To: techno

I, for one, doubt he was born in Hawaii. Unless the Kenyan Grandmother is a LIAR......which I guess you thonk she is, becuae she said he was born in Kenya and she was there.


63 posted on 12/05/2008 11:45:07 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience)
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To: quintr

This is not about obstruction, fraud or anything else. This is about Human Resources! This is about proving your right to legally work for the American people in this capacity. If you apply to work for someone in America, they will ask you for your SS Card and a government issued picture ID. If you apply to a “higher” opportunity like doctor or lawyer, they will also ask for proof of your degree and certification to legally practice whatever it is you are wanting to practice. Therefore this is a HR issue.

The problem is, there is no “HR” department for the constitution. The constitution does require the House of Representatives to certify and therefore, I would guess, verify the candidates, but right now I do not think the Democrat controlled House is going to do their job - do you?

In America, the office of President requires that you be a natural born citizen. So far, Senator Obama has refused to prove this and as such should be dismissed from the pool of people who can be hired - just as if I applied for, was given an offer letter from, and then expected the Memorial Herman Hospital to hire me as the head surgeon (BTW, I have about 36 credit hours of college - that’s it)!!!


64 posted on 12/05/2008 11:47:21 AM PST by ExTxMarine (For whatsoe'ver their sufferings were before; that change they covet makes them suffer more. -Dryden)
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To: trumandogz

The past President’s had a history about them, which proved each of their legality to hold this position.

Senator Obama will not release a single document that might show he is not eligible. Why do you think he will not release his college records - he probably is listed as a foreign student!

If we sit down and shut-up, then we might as well burn the D@MN constitution on January 20th, since it won’t be worth SH!T come January, 21st!


65 posted on 12/05/2008 11:56:10 AM PST by ExTxMarine (For whatsoe'ver their sufferings were before; that change they covet makes them suffer more. -Dryden)
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To: buwaya

“I don’t think the law would be that inflexible if it came down to it, no matter what argument can be made. The public and the courts would find them unreasonable.

You can run for president without worries !”

I would disagree with that. The founders were worried to the point of paranoia (sp?) about someone with any type of allegence or ties to a foriegn country. That’s why they put the “natural born citizen” requirement in. Natural born has never just meant “born on US soil”, and it’s easy to document that it never has.

You can tell from reading this article, other articles, and posts that most people are totally confused about this (including many legal scholars.) Anyone that quotes the 14th amendment immediatly shows they don’t understand the subject. The 14th amendment ONLY deals with citizenship, not the more specific “natural born citizen”.

The founders were afraid of direct vote by citizens, so the created the electorial college. Most people today think the electorial college is no longer needed, but I don’t see the supreme court getting rid of it anytime soon.

The public (today) might find the parental requirement unreasonable, but the people that wrote the Constitution didn’t. Like the electorial college, they had a legitimate concern at the time so they added it to the Constitution to address that concern.

I think the “camel nose under the tent” that gets this case heard is the fact that several states had the socialist candidate on the ballot (a guy born in Nigeria and not natural born by anyone’s definiton.) Once the case is in court, anything can happen. If they are going to rule on the socialist candidate’s status, then they will have to define what natural born means Constitutionally. I almost gurantee it won’t just be born on US soil.


66 posted on 12/05/2008 12:00:13 PM PST by Brookhaven (The Fair Tax is THE economic litmus test for conservatives)
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To: pallis
You are right! Obama is the cause of all the unanswered questions. But the Media has actually kept him from having to answer them!

The Media will continue to do the “voters have decided, nothing here, cases will go nowhere” talking points as long as they can. They knew all about both Obama and McCain not meeting the Constitutional requirements. Just my opinion.

67 posted on 12/05/2008 12:00:56 PM PST by seekthetruth
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To: buwaya

“its a slam-dunk that courts would say that “natural born” NOW means born to a US citizen anywhere. “

It depends if they rule on original intent or living document standards.


68 posted on 12/05/2008 12:02:10 PM PST by Brookhaven (The Fair Tax is THE economic litmus test for conservatives)
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To: ExTxMarine
If we sit down and shut-up, then we might as well burn the D@MN constitution on January 20th, since it won’t be worth SH!T come January, 21st!

I doubt that Chief Justice Roberts and Justices; Scalia, Thomas and Alito would "burn the D@MN constitution."

69 posted on 12/05/2008 12:10:19 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: trumandogz
Here is Gov (commerce secretary elect)Bill Richardson saying in Spanish that Obama is an "immigrant." (So he understands understands "immigrant" issues.)

You've heard people say "do not listen to what Israelis or Palestinians say in English. Listen to what they say in Hebrew and Arabic.

I wonder if the same rule applies here.

Maybe not.

Here in plain English is the Kenyan Ambassador saying that Obama is born in Kenya.
70 posted on 12/05/2008 12:30:01 PM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: DPMD
Here is Gov (commerce secretary elect)Bill Richardson saying in Spanish that Obama is an "immigrant." (So he understands understands "immigrant" issues.)

You've heard people say "do not listen to what Israelis or Palestinians say in English. Listen to what they say in Hebrew and Arabic.

I wonder if the same rule applies here.

Maybe not.

Here in plain English is the Kenyan Ambassador saying that Obama is born in Kenya.
71 posted on 12/05/2008 12:30:32 PM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: ckilmer

I do not believe the Richardson statement will be admissible in any case before the SCOTUS.


72 posted on 12/05/2008 12:42:18 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: seekthetruth

“They knew all about both Obama and McCain not meeting the Constitutional requirements. Just my opinion.”

I’m the furthest thing from a McCain fan, but I have to disagree with you on this point.


73 posted on 12/05/2008 12:42:19 PM PST by pallis
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To: pallis
I wasn't a McCain fan in the beginning. I was for Hunter, Thompson, Romney in that order. However, once McCain won the nomination I campaigned for him and supported him with donations. Especially when he selected Sarah as his VP! My vote was really going for Sarah, I have to admit.

Now that this Constitutional crisis is looming, I have come to that conclusion that the Media, DNC, RNC all knew that Obama and McCain did not constitutionally qualify as “natural born” citizens, even though they both are citizens. I respect McCain so much for his service to our country, and consider him an American hero. However, the Constitution must be followed and upheld. That is all I care about right now. We can live through whatever comes, but if our Constitution is considered a living breathing document that can provide a pass for Presidential candidates, our Republic will not get through that!

74 posted on 12/05/2008 12:54:52 PM PST by seekthetruth
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To: buwaya

Why then was he dormed with foreign nationals in college. The practice then and now is to place students with cultural peers to ease their ability to communicate and socialize.

The court cannot make a feel good interpretation of born to a US citizen anywhere. The Constitution is breif and explicit in the requirements.

Acting like a citizen for 40 years does qualify one as a citizen. If you are here illegally then you have comitted multiple felonious frauds in those 40 years. And, I don’t care if you are from Ireland, England or any other blue eyed country and here illegally.

He has at least three BC’s

1. His original BC before adoption, that was sealed upon his adoption.

2. His new adopted identity BC with his Stepfather.

3. His new change of name identity BC or one from another country.


75 posted on 12/05/2008 1:10:10 PM PST by Vendome
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To: ExTxMarine

Mr. President:
As a condition of your employment by the citizens of the USA please fill out this I-9 form.

You need to present two valid forms of ID. One from column A and one from column B. Alternatively, you can present a valid ID from column C but one must be from column A.


76 posted on 12/05/2008 1:15:06 PM PST by Vendome
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To: Joe Marine 76

David Axelrod made sure that the folks in the MSM received their necessary talking points.


77 posted on 12/05/2008 1:16:18 PM PST by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: pissant
All of this controversy could be easily ended if Obama comes clean on where he was born by producing the documents. McCain's eligibility was clearly established years ago.
78 posted on 12/05/2008 1:23:10 PM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: buwaya

I really don’t care what the majority of the public thinks of this subject. They’re the ones who got us here in the first place.
(I do care what most Freepers think.)


79 posted on 12/05/2008 1:51:55 PM PST by gigster
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To: trumandogz
I do not believe the Richardson statement will be admissible in any case before the SCOTUS.

.........

Here is the Kenyan Ambassador saying that Obama is born in Kenya.

Likely too his statement is inadmissible too. Ya think?
80 posted on 12/05/2008 1:53:48 PM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: seekthetruth

I wouldn’t give that much credence to the Media,DNC,et.al.,
knowing much of anything. That, after all, is the hallmark of who they are.


81 posted on 12/05/2008 1:59:41 PM PST by gigster
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To: ckilmer

I’m not sure but I am sure John Roberts and the other eight justices will have an answer.


82 posted on 12/05/2008 2:08:45 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: trumandogz

Please don’t tell us what we are free to do. I understand that you are being sensible and realistic. However, with this attitude we would still be British subjects, petitioning the king!


83 posted on 12/05/2008 2:27:07 PM PST by OneTimeComment (I)
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To: pepsionice; fieldmarshaldj

Linda Lingle had a fantasy about winning the lower house in 2004. Didn’t come close to happening.

Now there are hardly any Republicans in the legislature.

It’s like Massachusetts and Rhode Island.


84 posted on 12/05/2008 2:40:20 PM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Brookhaven

The Socialist candidates case didn’t come up because he didn’t win. Based on the other cases, prior to winning nobody has “standing” to contest on the “natural born” grounds - which is a pretty silly idea to my mind. Perhaps one of the other candidates in the election would have had “standing” ?

But as for the law - effectively the law is what its current interpretation is, not what we think it is or would like it to be. It seems to me that the wording in the Constitution can be interpreted in a broad sense, given that there is very little precedent. The meaning would be whatever the current case establishes, if it comes to that.


85 posted on 12/05/2008 4:01:29 PM PST by buwaya
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To: Brookhaven

I think it would be very difficult to solidly establish original intent in this case as there is no real precedent.

And then there is the fact of changes in social structure via the law since then. Original intent could call for only the father being qualified to pass on citizenship for instance (”both parents” is an absurd requirement, even for “original intent”. That was never the custom.). These days it would be absurd to deny the mother the ability to pass on citizenship also.

The whole business is highly unsettled it seems.


86 posted on 12/05/2008 4:07:50 PM PST by buwaya
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To: Vendome

I have no idea why he dormed with anyone. He went to school with Americans (in Hawaii) for almost his whole life. Possibly he thought hanging with the foreigners was cool ? There is a considerable desire among American students in UC Berkeley to be dormed at International House for instance.

My point about his 40 years here is that HE thinks he is American. The idea floating around about him having pre-existing allegiances to any other country (dating from the age of 7 ?) are absurd. This is a matter about the letter of the law, not such silly speculations. I don’t like him at all, and I wish he had stayed in Hawaii or Chicago, but lets be rational critics. I am afraid that he is an American leftist, not a foreign leftist.

The Constitution is not a bit clear about this - or a lot of other things. Sometimes original intent IS clear, when you have precedents from the period, but not here. If a case is brought before the Supreme Court they will clarify for the first time the meaning of “natural born”.


87 posted on 12/05/2008 4:18:13 PM PST by buwaya
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To: pissant

Rev Manning on Plains now. Leo to be on later.
http://www.plainsradio.com/


88 posted on 12/05/2008 4:21:56 PM PST by seekthetruth
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To: gigster

Well, the problem as far as we are concerned is in fact what the public thinks, in this and every other matter. We have no ability to create our reality. The law will be what the public thinks in this case.

It does not matter a hill of beans what Freepers think. We can gripe to each other all day for the next four years and it still won’t matter. Best is to come up with something the public will buy, not just Freepers.


89 posted on 12/05/2008 4:22:14 PM PST by buwaya
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To: pepsionice; Impy; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican; Clemenza; BillyBoy

Yeah, winning the HI legislature isn’t going to be happening anytime soon. The HI House has gone from 32D-19R in 2000 (under Dem Gov. Cayetano, its high water mark in the recent era) all the way down to 45D-6R with this election (essentially tying MA for a GOP non-entity). Even worse, the Senate now has just 2 Republicans, down from the 5 it had won since 2002 (it had lost 1 in ‘07), so it is even lower a percentage in the Senate than in the House (8% of the body).

Lingle has been unable to turn it around. The GOP hasn’t held the majority in either body since just prior to statehood in the ‘50s. At one point, the GOP had an even smaller presence than it does now and came very close to being the first state in the nation outside the South in the modern era to have no Republicans in a legislative body.

It’s remarkable Lingle can even govern under such circumstances, as the obscene Dem majorities could rule without her input and reduce her to figurehead status.


90 posted on 12/05/2008 4:23:35 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: nathanbedford

It can be solved simply.. Put the rumors to rest. Just release the Birth Certificate so we can all believe you are a legitimate President of the U.S.


91 posted on 12/05/2008 4:33:01 PM PST by FreedBird
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To: Ann Archy
He MAY have been a Citizen of Indonesia when he was adopted by Sotero.

An unbiased reporter MAY have written that. This reporter said:

He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia.

92 posted on 12/05/2008 8:50:26 PM PST by Onelifetogive (I'm gonna drop talk radio in favor of some audio books. Gotta lower my blood pressure.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
The Hawaii GOP is comatose under Lingle because she's the Hawaiian version of Arnold. Both got into office because the state RAT leadership had royally screwed the taxpayers and the Governor lied through his teeth to get a second term. Both ran under the tired old "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" banner. Both defeated the Lt. Governor who had been tied at the hip of the Governor everyone hated and symbolized corruption. Both ran energetic, spirited campaigns as the "reform" candidate and seemed like a total breathe of fresh air that had never been part of the state government. Both had prominent conservatives across the country that they were close to, who urged Republicans to unite behind them and their message of reducing waste and fixing government.

Today, neither has delivered on that promise, because both would rather be liked by Democrat politicians at state cocktail parties than force real change. Arnie tried a series of half-ass "reforms" that didn't have a prayer of passing, including some really off the wall stuff, and so did Lingle (perhaps the silliest proposal being her plan to ship all criminals across the pacific ocean to prisons on the mainland in order to deal with the prison overcrowding issue on Hawaii without having to build new prisons). The "Republican Main Street Partnership" -- the premier RINO breeding ground in the U.S. -- has only two Governors who are card carrying members. Guess who? Yep, Arnie and Linda. Not even that annoying Conn. RINO is a member.

The hopes that Arnie and Linda had of campaigning across the state with like-minded "moderates" who would get elected on their celebrity coattails didn't work, because voters choose the real Democrat when their choices were Dem and Dem lite. So in both Hawaii and California, the situation is Dems control the legislature by lopsided margins for the foreseeable future, and every statewide office except the Governorship. As usual, RINOs deliver for no one but the left.

There are some differnces of course -- Arnie is a numbskull and Lingle is a bright speaker, Arnie is a showman and Lingle is an actual politican -- and of course Arnie PLAYS a tough and "manly" act, where Lingle has Charlie Crist syndrome (constantly being the subject of whisper campaign in her own party that she's a closet homosexual), but what it all boils down to at the end of the day is they are both ineffective RINOs.

The sole bright spot Hawaii might have is the Lt. Governor, James Aiona, had a reputation as a very conservative law and order judge and won the Lt. Governor GOP primary without the support of Lingle's faction of the party, but was elected to the office in November on her coattails. As a pacific islander, the average Hawaiian can identify with him more, and perhaps he can do a better job selling the GOP brand than the RINO Lingle. If Lingle is not term limited and doesn't retire in 2010, Aiona needs to step up to the plate and get the Governor's office from her.

93 posted on 12/05/2008 10:29:46 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy

I’m afraid that was some of my worries with Lingle (and now trying to ascertain what her game is with the alleged birth certificate). BTW, Aiona wasn’t elected “on her coattails”, the Lt Governor is elected as a package deal. At least the nice thing is that the Governor gets to appoint the other statewide officeholders. Although not my favorite, I’d let her take a shot at running for the Senate in ‘10, she might even win (although Bill Quinn tried it when Hiram Fong stepped down in ‘76, which I wish he hadn’t, since he could’ve conceivably lasted into this decade as the Chinese-American version of Strom. However, Quinn had lost reelection as Governor in ‘62 and had been out of office 14 years, and in ‘10, she can run straight from the Governorship. I see HI now has term limits of 2, since I recall some of the Governors served 12-year stretches).

Of course, one difference between the former HI Lt Gov vs. California’s is that Mazie Hirono wasn’t that unpopular, and she managed a comeback to Congress. Bustamante became literally toxic, and the only reason we won the State Insurance Commissioner’s office is because that happened to be the office he decided to run for in ‘06. Had he been eligible to run for a 3rd term as Leo McCarthy did, there’s a pretty good chance McClintock might’ve been able to beat him outright. Too bad he couldn’t. But, our gain in Congress now. Maybe we can dump Boehner for Tom sometime in the next session.


94 posted on 12/06/2008 12:20:53 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: Onelifetogive

Oh geesh.....that info has been aroun d a LONG time, not just from this stupid reporter. Are you new??


95 posted on 12/06/2008 3:23:09 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience)
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To: Ann Archy
Oh geesh.....that info has been aroun d a LONG time, not just from this stupid reporter. Are you new??

I'm not new...

And I'm not sure what we disagree about. The reporter threw in a stupid line indicating that people are accusing Obama of "maybe being born in Indonesia." This is simply not true. He may have Indonesian citizenship from being adopted by an Indonesian, but no one is saying that he was born there. This is intentionally bad reporting.

96 posted on 12/06/2008 5:30:22 AM PST by Onelifetogive (I'm gonna drop talk radio in favor of some audio books. Gotta lower my blood pressure.)
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To: Onelifetogive

Having a DUAL citizenship would be somewhat of a problem to moderates, as why didn’t he reveal such info and what else may he be hiding, that’s all.


97 posted on 12/06/2008 5:37:05 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience)
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To: BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued

Aiona is already running it seems. Good news if he’s more conservative than Lingle.

Hopefully Hawaii won’t return to total union fiefdom status.

The first 2 rat governors did serve 12 years each.

“The “Republican Main Street Partnership” — the premier RINO breeding ground in the U.S. — has only two Governors who are card carrying members. Guess who? Yep, Arnie and Linda. Not even that annoying Conn. RINO is a member.”

Odd. She’s at least worse than Lingle.


98 posted on 12/06/2008 4:48:51 PM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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