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Why the stories about Obama's birth certificate will never die
Salon ^ | December 5, 2008 | Alex Koppelman

Posted on 12/05/2008 5:18:15 PM PST by Aliska

Dec. 5, 2008 | Barack Obama can't be president: He wasn't really born in Hawaii, and the certification of live birth his campaign released is a forgery. He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia. Or, wait, maybe he was born in Hawaii -- but that doesn't matter, since he was also a British citizen at birth because of his father, and you can't be a "natural-born citizen" in that case. (But then, maybe his "father" wasn't really his father; maybe his real dad was an obscure communist poet. Or Malcolm X.)

(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: acrackerhead; artbell; birth; birthcertificate; blackhelicopter; certificate; conspiracy; csection; obama; tinfoilhat
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OK, here's the other side of it. Please read the entire article at the link, and if you have points against it to make, please do so. I can see only a coupld things I might question based on things I've read and seen on the web. My mind is not made up either way.

I'm just the messenger here, so you don't have to post all your responses to me, but talk to each other.

1 posted on 12/05/2008 5:18:15 PM PST by Aliska
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To: LucyT; Brown Deer; 2ndDivisionVet

ping


2 posted on 12/05/2008 5:20:27 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
...but talk to each other.

"Stop it - I'm getting veclempt!"

3 posted on 12/05/2008 5:23:58 PM PST by library user
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To: Aliska

Obama has the power to make all of this go away right now, but he won’t show his birth certificate. He is causing this problem, not the evil right-wingers.


4 posted on 12/05/2008 5:24:24 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: Aliska
He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia. Or, wait, maybe he was born in Hawaii

What's his birth certificate say? Oh, yeah, that's right - he refuses to release it.

5 posted on 12/05/2008 5:25:42 PM PST by Mojave (http://barackobamajokes.googlepages.com/obama_funny)
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To: Aliska; Brown Deer; Calpernia; Fred Nerks; null and void; pissant; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; ..

Thank you, Aliska. Brown Deer, we’ve missed you, and your great posts.

Ping.


6 posted on 12/05/2008 5:25:55 PM PST by LucyT
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To: Aliska
You might think these rumors would have died off after Obama produced proof in June that he was, in fact, born in Hawaii to an American citizen, his mother, Ann, or after Hawaii state officials confirmed in October that he was born there.

This is simple obfuscation. I, for one, am not accusing BO of anything other than refusing to present proof of birth. Which, despite the protests of this writer, he has not. Also, proof is not taking someone else's word for it. A Hawaii official can say anything he pleases. Doesn't make it so. A BC makes it so, which again, we have not seen.

7 posted on 12/05/2008 5:26:18 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Aliska
Poor Alex Koppelman. He should have just left it at "....(the) controversy isn't going to go away....".

He added nothing, and negated anything positive in what he said when he went on to cite Factcheck.org ~ NO ONE, not even his closest cronies, trusts that site anymore.

Given any controversy whatsoever, if it has the capacity to make a different candidate President, it's going to be litigated ~ and that has been true ever since the Algore sought to litigate his way into the White House, first by sending in lawyers to stop Florida election clerks from counting absentee ballots received from military personnel serving overseas, and then by bring suit to count all disputed votes in his favor until he had a majority of the votes (in Florida).

It was a precedent ~ the Democrats created the precedent ~ now they'll have to live with it, and people like Alex Keppelman should take their complaint to the Algore, not to us.

8 posted on 12/05/2008 5:26:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: LucyT
If the court doesn't uphold the constitution, I am having my birth certificate scanned onto my t-shirt with the words Natural Born. Just to wear on political occasions.
9 posted on 12/05/2008 5:28:20 PM PST by nufsed
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To: Aliska
Of course the MSM would never touch this story, but if there was any traction to the tale O'Reilly or Hannity would have brought it to the fore.

It should be addressed, but it is most likely a non-starter.

The consensus says, if he has one just show it and end the speculation, but .............

as we know the demonrats would love a big "Ta - Da" moment.

Besides, even if he aint..............

God save us from Joe "I wish I said that" Biden.

10 posted on 12/05/2008 5:29:19 PM PST by Nitro (Nitro does it with a BANG!!)
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To: library user
Stop it - I'm getting veclempt!

LOL.

11 posted on 12/05/2008 5:33:18 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
but that doesn't matter, since he was also a British citizen at birth because of his father, and you can't be a "natural-born citizen" in that case.

I'm sick of this crap. IF he was born in Hawaii it doesn't matter where his parents were born or their citizenship - he would be natural born citizen. The question is was he really born in Hawaii?

12 posted on 12/05/2008 5:34:43 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Nitro
The consensus says, if he has one just show it and end the speculation

You gotta give the ink time to dry.

13 posted on 12/05/2008 5:35:50 PM PST by Mojave (http://barackobamajokes.googlepages.com/obama_funny)
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To: Aliska
But then, maybe his "father" wasn't really his father; maybe his real dad was an obscure communist poet. Or Malcolm X.)

What are tehy suggesting -- that Stanley was a slut?

14 posted on 12/05/2008 5:35:56 PM PST by BenLurkin
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To: nufsed

lol

That’s such a good idea, probably you can make a fortune selling them, too.


15 posted on 12/05/2008 5:37:31 PM PST by LucyT
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To: Aliska
"There's no amount of evidence or data that will change somebody's mind," says Michael Shermer, .... "The more data you present a person, the more they doubt it ... Once you're committed, especially behaviorally committed or financially committed, the more impossible it becomes to change your mind."

This may be true in some cases. However, in this case there has not been much supporting data offered. I believe if the original birth certificate were presented and judged by most experts to be valid, and if a plausible explanation of Obama's status while in Indonesia was offered, the issue would be virtually dead. The author may be correct that there would remain some committed conspiritorialists like the 911 deniers. However, if the data are not presented, Obama's presidential legitimacy will always be in question.

16 posted on 12/05/2008 5:37:56 PM PST by outofstyle (There's a rake at the gates of Hell tonight)
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To: LucyT

This story ain’t ever gunna go away...:0/


17 posted on 12/05/2008 5:39:03 PM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Aliska

It will never die for 2 reasons:
1. We won’t let it.
2. BO won’t settle it because he can’t.
Said it. Done.


18 posted on 12/05/2008 5:39:46 PM PST by LiberConservative
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To: fr_freak
Obama has the power to make all of this go away right now

Not necessarily, because while I never questioned it until it came up on the web, how do I know what is true and not a forgery? I have NO proof he is not a NB citizen. Neither do I have ANY proof that he is not a NB citizen.

Did it not first come out on Kos? Isn't that a little odd? Still it doesn't prove anything.

19 posted on 12/05/2008 5:39:53 PM PST by Aliska
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To: BenLurkin
that Stanley was a slut?

That's been suggested several times. Did you see those nude photos of Stanley Ann?

20 posted on 12/05/2008 5:39:58 PM PST by LucyT
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To: Aliska

What is the big deal? Maybe it is the fact that he won’t release so many things about himself, and not just the birth certificate. What that does is feed the fires of rumor ans speculation about what is really in his past. Anyone who pays attention to such things cannot help but wonder what is really the truth about the birth certificate, his childhood in Indonesia, his college years, Harvard law school, his questionable friends, fundraising, and a host of other things. The only logical conclusion, in the absence of full and open disclosure, is that there is that he has skeletons in his closet, and any speculation as to what those skeletons are is entirely justified in the interest of making the truth come out. 0bama can disprove all of this, unless what is hidden is too damaging to risk disclosure.


21 posted on 12/05/2008 5:40:00 PM PST by yawningotter
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To: ChildOfThe60s
Simple Obfuscation? No, it is a layering of lies, the specialty of David Axelrod, Obama's handler. Axelrod has used this method of layering lies upon issue to hide the truth from the public throughout his tenure as Obama minister of deceit. We know for certain that Hawaiian officials did not verify Obama was born in HI, in fact they went out of their way to phrase their response to shwo they would not say if he was or wasn't since that would be a breach of his privacy and open them up for prosecution!

Think for a moment what it means that every time an issue regrading Obama's past associates or life history arises, David Axelrod has a list of lies to layer on the issue to hide the truth. THAT IS THE KIND OF BASTARD WE THE PEOPLE HAVE ELECTED TO BE PRESIDENT. We will get what we deserve this time, and there isn't enough Vaseline or K-Y Jelly in the world to make the experience only uncomfortable.

Allow me to be more succinct: Barack Obama is revealing what sort of anti-American bastard he is right from the start, as he pisses on the domestic tranquiility for his own empowerment and ignores our Constitution.

22 posted on 12/05/2008 5:40:55 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: BenLurkin
What are tehy suggesting -- that Stanley was a slut?

Yes, maybe.

...and he has the nude photos (or the links to them) to prove it.

23 posted on 12/05/2008 5:43:42 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The mob got President Barabbas; America got shafted)
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To: muawiyah
I never took factcheck as gospel but tended to rely on it. Now I no longer trust them. It still doesn't prove anything one way or another.

Koppleman did bring up the notice in the Hawaii newspaper. I have seen a photocopy of that. And the school record. And the COLB. Two supposed versions of that, actually. And the purported draft registration which may be not be what it is supposed to be. What other relevant scans are out there?

But there is no way I can prove any of this one way or another. A lot of the missing pieces of the puzzle are just suspicious, that's all.

24 posted on 12/05/2008 5:45:40 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska

As I was looking at the picture of madonna and child in the article, I couldn’t help but wonder why, oh why, would America ever pick a ninny to be its president?


25 posted on 12/05/2008 5:47:16 PM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great... ...until it happens to YOU.)
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To: outofstyle

Yes. obama’s presidency will always be in question unless he comes up with the bc. Given that, why doesn’t he just do it? Because, apparently, he has something to hide. People like Koppleman (corrent?) can write distort the issue, but it’s not that complicated.


26 posted on 12/05/2008 5:47:20 PM PST by ElayneJ
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To: Aliska
Not necessarily, because while I never questioned it until it came up on the web, how do I know what is true and not a forgery?

That is my point. For those who believe that this birth certificate thing is a non-issue brought up by fringe kooks, Obama has the power to end this controversy by producing his presumably authentic birth certificate. If he can't, then maybe these people aren't fringe kooks after all.
27 posted on 12/05/2008 5:49:23 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: LucyT

Thanks, LucyT

Ping


28 posted on 12/05/2008 5:50:54 PM PST by Iowan
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To: nufsed
"If the court doesn't uphold the constitution, I am having my birth certificate scanned onto my t-shirt with the words Natural Born. Just to wear on political occasion"

Offer them with a template we can put ours on. Cafe Press offers such a service.

I bought"Maverick/Barracuda" bumper stickers from there. I'll buy and wear some of your t-shirts and bumper stickers and try to distribute some too.

29 posted on 12/05/2008 5:51:11 PM PST by AZ .44 MAG (A society that doesn't protect its children doesn't deserve to survive.)
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To: LiberConservative

Yes!and will someone please come forth for clarity’s sake with the names of the THREE LAW FIRMS that onothing has hired.I’ve only heard of one lawyer mentioned by name(i forget who)& who at one time had a relationship with CAIR-
the THREE LAW FIRMS please,anyone?:)


30 posted on 12/05/2008 5:51:15 PM PST by MissDairyGoodnessVT (Good Morning Mr & Mrs Scooter and All The Ships At Sea)
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To: AZ .44 MAG

Thanx. I’ll post it at the time.


31 posted on 12/05/2008 5:53:49 PM PST by nufsed
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To: All

This whole ordeal is Obama’s fault, and only he has the ability to make it go away. Maybe the leftnuts should appeal to him, if not, it should never go away.


32 posted on 12/05/2008 5:54:49 PM PST by pallis
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To: BenLurkin
What are tehy suggesting

He's suggesting that we are right wing conspiracy whackjobs just for questioning any of it. That's stuff he's picked up and spitting back at the reader. No, he's not suggesting she was the s-word I don't believe.

He didn't mention, on the offchance he was born in Kenya, the age and law in effect at the time, and I have to take the case file that the law was as it was. At first I thought it was ridiculous that he could have been born in Kenya. Then if young Ann was starry eyed and curious about other cultures as she seemed to be, it wouldn't be beyond the pale that she would have accompanied O, Sr. to Kenya to meet his family, an adventure, etc.

As another poster noted, we've seen no evidence that Hawaiian officialdom actually said he was born in Hawaii, just that there was a certificate in a lock box.

The dual-citizenship, I would think American law would take precedent except for the years in Indonesia, that I don't really know.

I've just read second hand what his sister supposedly said about the hospital, never seen a good source for that. Every question raises another question which I don't see as necessarily conspirational but critical thinking and logic.

33 posted on 12/05/2008 5:57:51 PM PST by Aliska
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To: fr_freak; Aliska
Which is the whole point of any of it. Obama has the power to make it evaporate in an instant ~ all he has to do is show the record maintained in the Hawaii data base ~ which should name the people who attended his birth.

It's possible he is as stupid as I think he really is and doesn't comprehend the difference between the source document (prepared at birth), the long form (with all the good stuff), and the short form (the folded document he kept in a drawer with his cufflinks).

Rather than attempt to "cover up" stuff, people in authority, like the ol'gal who runs the records center in Hawaii, should 'splain stuff to Obama so he can take appropriate action.

Instead, these idiots keep firing the flames of controversy and Obama just trundles along smiling and waving and delivering Axelrod's speeches.

Oh, yeah, I did say "cover up" ~ there are people who think that by taking a defensive posture they can actually "cover up" the problem and protect their candidate.

That's the Limited Hang Out Route.

Richard Nixon did that.

34 posted on 12/05/2008 5:59:50 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Aliska

Look into who funds Factcheck. It’s an important part of the picture.


35 posted on 12/05/2008 6:02:15 PM PST by xdem
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To: Aliska

This thought just occurred to me.

The BC had a date on it of 2007. They explained that away by saying they had obtained it in 2007.That can’t be his original birth certificate. It was sealed at adoption.

Wouldn’t the next birth certificate - done at adoption - change his last name?

The name shown on the records of the Indonesian school.

One thing is damn sure clear..HE FLAT OUT LIED WHEN HE APPLIED TO THE STATE BAR STATING HE HAD NEVER GONE BY ANY OTHER NAMES.

MAYBE SALON.COM OUGHT TO WRITE ABOUT THAT.


36 posted on 12/05/2008 6:02:32 PM PST by RummyChick
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To: LiberConservative
Jim can make it go away here and time he wants!
37 posted on 12/05/2008 6:04:00 PM PST by org.whodat (Conservatives don't vote for Bailouts for Super-Rich Bankers! Republicans do!)
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To: outofstyle
This may be true in some cases. However, in this case there has not been much supporting data offered. I believe if the original birth certificate were presented and judged by most experts to be valid, and if a plausible explanation of Obama's status while in Indonesia was offered, the issue would be virtually dead.

Add to that the supposedly sealed school records that could show anything and the Illinois bar app and the possible use of two different names and clear up the draft registration, by experts as you say, then it would be virtually dead, agreed.

I mean if it looks like, smells like and walks like a conspiracy . . . .what else is a person to make of it.

There are two things that I don't necessarily buy into. The radio show that called the ambassador. He could have meant Obama, Sr. The grandmother in Kenya, could have been a translation error (or idiomatic) or she's old and her memory may not be so good; I do look for alternative explanations.

38 posted on 12/05/2008 6:05:28 PM PST by Aliska
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To: fr_freak
Obama has the power to make all of this go away right now, but he won’t show his birth certificate.

He has:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

39 posted on 12/05/2008 6:11:41 PM PST by curiosity
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To: Mojave
What's his birth certificate say?

Honolulu, Hawaii

40 posted on 12/05/2008 6:13:17 PM PST by curiosity
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To: Mojave
What's his birth certificate say?

Honolulu, Hawaii

41 posted on 12/05/2008 6:13:23 PM PST by curiosity
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To: Mojave
You gotta give the ink time to dry.

Get Monica Lewinsky and she can blow on it.

42 posted on 12/05/2008 6:16:16 PM PST by Nitro (Nitro does it with a BANG!!)
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To: muawiyah
Which is the whole point of any of it. Obama has the power to make it evaporate in an instant ~ all he has to do is show the record maintained in the Hawaii data base ~ which should name the people who attended his birth.

True if he was born in Hawaii. Almost. Some of the things that came up as a result of people starting to look into it (that I would have never thought of myself) still need credible explanations.

Can you or anyone verify this (I copied it from something Judah Benjamin, an historian, wrote on texasdarlin's site):

"There is indirect reason to believe that this may be true. “2d Session S. RES. 511: Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.: In the Senate of the United States.” was Sponsored by Senator McCaskill and co-sponsored by Senators Leahy, Obama, Coburn, Clinton and Webb. Why? Why were Democratic Senators trying to pass a Resolution making Senator McCain undoubtedly legally Eligible when this issue had already been cleared up in 2000 and again in 2004?

"And why did Senators McCaskill and Obama reportedly insert the following Clause?

“'Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;'”

The above seems a little odd in retrospect that Obama would be so involved in this particular one since he seems to be dodgy at times unless pinned against a wall so to speak.

43 posted on 12/05/2008 6:17:00 PM PST by Aliska
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To: muawiyah

I think probably his real birth certificate contains embarrassing information about him ... perhaps his father was listed as unknown, or his birth name was Barry Dunham. Something like that which does not fit the story line in his books.


44 posted on 12/05/2008 6:17:52 PM PST by Cloverfarm (Children are a blessing ...)
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To: curiosity
That's a laserprinter "Certification of Live Birth" abstract.

What's his birth certificate say?

45 posted on 12/05/2008 6:18:01 PM PST by Mojave (http://barackobamajokes.googlepages.com/obama_funny)
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To: curiosity
That is not a Birth Certificate. Notice it doesn't list a doctor or hospital.

He is fighting in court in order to NOT release his actual BC.

46 posted on 12/05/2008 6:18:26 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: RummyChick
The BC had a date on it of 2007

That's because that's the date they printed it. If you go to your county records office today and ask for your county's birth certificate today, they will put the date it was printed, along with your birth date.

I know this because I have had to get extra copies of my birth certificate before.

A new copy printed today is no less valid and no less official than the one given to your parents when you were born.

47 posted on 12/05/2008 6:20:25 PM PST by curiosity
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To: fr_freak

If Obama showed his birth certificate now, a lot of people would just assume it’s a fake, probably me among them.


48 posted on 12/05/2008 6:22:50 PM PST by FFranco
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To: DJ MacWoW
That is not a Birth Certificate. Notice it doesn't list a doctor or hospital.

Yes it is. It is the short for Birth Certificate, and it is just as valid as the long-form given to his parents when he was born.

It's certainly good enough to prove he's a citizen to any government agency. The hospital and doctor's name are irrelevant for this purpose. Only the place of birth is relevant, and it's on the certificate.

He is fighting in court in order to NOT release his actual BC.

Please provide a link.

49 posted on 12/05/2008 6:23:16 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity

You are completely missing the point. The fact that it had 2007 on it means that it is supposedly a copy of what is there now NOT the original that is sealed because of the adoption.

The adoption very likely changed Obama’s name. So who went back in and changed his name again????? and when????

Obama supposedly can’t get at his original birth certificate because he was adopted. I am not sure this holds true if it is just a one parent adoption versus an anonymous adoption.


50 posted on 12/05/2008 6:23:44 PM PST by RummyChick
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