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Enough with the Oogedy-Boogedy - Religion, politics, and us.
National Review Online ^ | December 05, 2008 | Shannen W. Coffin

Posted on 12/05/2008 10:34:15 PM PST by neverdem








Enough with the Oogedy-Boogedy
Religion, politics, and us.

By Shannen W. Coffin

Kathleen Parker’s war on religion in the Re-public-an square entered a new phase today. In her syndicated column, she nobly attempted to explain her use of the term “oogedy-boogedy” to describe religious conservatives. It’s not that she is “anti-God.” It’s just that God really shouldn’t be mentioned in polite company. Religion can inform our values (gee, thanks). But reason, not religion, should inform our public debates.

I hadn’t realized religion and reason were mutually exclusive. It seems Pope Benedict hasn’t gotten the memo, either. As he said in his widely misunderstood Regensburg address in 2006:

In the Western world it is widely held that only positivistic reason and the forms of philosophy based on it are universally valid. Yet the world's profoundly religious cultures see this exclusion of the divine from the universality of reason as an attack on their most profound convictions. A reason which is deaf to the divine and which relegates religion into the realm of subcultures is incapable of entering into the dialogue of cultures.

For many, Republican and Democrat, a belief in the Divine informs reason. So it is a little difficult to remove one from the other.

Parker does not offer a particularly persuasive defense of her position. Why should we exclude certain rationales in defending public policy? The moral opprobrium of the electorate has driven public policy since the Founding, supporting laws against murder and prostitution as readily as laws against trespass and littering.

Take, for instance, the always-heated issue of abortion. Opposition to abortion can, as Parker observes, be explained on the basis of science and reason. Parker is absolutely correct that the writings of Nat Hentoff, a self-professed atheist, are of immeasurable value to the debate (and if you do not believe in an afterlife, there is a great incentive to protect life on earth). But why is it invalid to suggest that faith in an Almighty, life after death, or anything else should also play a role in convincing the great undecided middle? Surely Parker doesn’t think the entirety of the religious debate about abortion revolves around the question of “ensoulment,” does she?

Parker claims that “the cause” — implying she has a common one with conservatives — “is not helped when someone of the stature of Rick Warren interviews the leading presidential candidates in his church, questioning them about their faith.” But many who watched the Saddleback forum thought that it was far better than the Commission-sponsored debates, because Warren asked questions that tried to differentiate the candidates on who they were, not on their economic growth-plans. How are we worse off when Rick Warren asks questions that reflect the moral and religious beliefs of a majority of Americans, while leaving the nuts and bolts to Lehrer and Brokaw?

At bottom, the fundamental problem with Kathleen Parker’s argument is that it leaves to Kathleen Parker the decision as to what is too “oogedy-boogedy” for the public square. She even quotes the indecipherable legal standard proffered by Justice Potter Stewart for cases involving pornography: “I know it when I see it.” But a look at the more complete text of Stewart’s “standard” for defining hardcore pornography shows that it was no standard at all:  “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.” 

Parker, like Stewart, has failed in intelligibly defining a standard. But she’s failed even more in defending her characterization of the Religious Right as made up of “oogedy-boogedy” fundamentalists who put off moderates.

— Shannen W. Coffin, an attorney in Washington, D.C., is a former Bush administration lawyer.




TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: antitheism; atheistsupremacist; conservativebashing; conservatives; culturewar; godgap; kathleenparker; oogabooga; oogedyboogedy; religion; religiousintolerance; religiousright; rino; socialconservatives

1 posted on 12/05/2008 10:34:16 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I’m trying to understand Kathleen Parker and why she hated Sarah Palin.

I loved Sarah Palin and called for her to be the VP choice before McLiberal chose her.

If social conservatives don’t understand why there is antipathy towards her, just realize that there are 3 wings to the conservative movement. She is an A+ in in social conservatism, incomplete on foreign policy conservatism and an F on economic conservatism.


2 posted on 12/05/2008 10:50:42 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: neverdem

There ARE NO RULES for what is allowed in the public square, or what kind of arguments are permitted in election campaigns. If an atheist wishes to bash religion while campaigning for public office, fine. If a Bible-thumping troglodyte wishes to make nothing but Biblically-based arguments during an election campaign fine. If a Catholic wants to campaign waving a Rosary around during all his speeches, fine.

As long as THE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO VOTE for the people they want in public office—guess what?—the people will be SELF-GOVERNING.

John F. Kennedy got it EXACTLY WRONG in his famous speech in 1960, when he promised that “his” religion had no influence on HIS beliefs.

That has been the standard ever since—candidates for public office—well, actually, just those who have a reputation for actually BELIEVING in their religion—have been called upon to promise that their religion is so private, they won’t impose it on themselves.

This SUCKS.

What Kennedy SHOULD have told the ministers is: There is nothing in the Catholic Faith that is a threat to the U.S. Constitution. So you can take your “concerns” about whether a Catholic can serve as President as a loyal American citizen, and shove them.

Instead, Kennedy promised (a promise he kept) to be a bad Catholic in the White House, just as he had been a bad Catholic his entire life. Catholic politicians have been pressured to live up to Kennedy’s standard ever since.


3 posted on 12/05/2008 10:58:06 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: neverdem

Given the dislike of Huckabee among economic conservatives, are folks like David Frum and Kathleen Parker justified in bashing Evanglicals?


4 posted on 12/05/2008 11:01:23 PM PST by yongin (Converting people to Mormonism makes the world more conservative)
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To: yongin

Yes.


5 posted on 12/05/2008 11:04:48 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: neverdem
Moderates by definition, do not believe in moral absolutes. So conservatives should censor their deepest convictions to get a hearing from them? A fraud shouldn't get one. Kathleen Parker has no problems with liberals making their case heard. She only has a problem with conservatives making one on grounds that inform their core beliefs.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

6 posted on 12/05/2008 11:05:40 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: neverdem

read later


7 posted on 12/05/2008 11:35:32 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Parker hated Palin because her husband thought she was hot.


8 posted on 12/06/2008 12:41:28 AM PST by AmericanGirlRising (The cow is in the ditch. We know how it got there. Now help me get it out!)
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To: All

Kathleen Parker is the latest Arianna Huffington (loose in her politically tied principles looking for a Sorosesque sugar-daddy). KP is the new darling of MSNBC.


9 posted on 12/06/2008 12:44:54 AM PST by AmericanGirlRising (The cow is in the ditch. We know how it got there. Now help me get it out!)
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To: neverdem
I guess what KP is just trying to say is that religious conservatives are "icky." Think of how much smaller her carbon footprint could have been, and how many trees and electrons could have been saved, if she had just written those 4 words,rather than an entire column.

Mark

10 posted on 12/06/2008 3:35:09 AM PST by MarkL
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To: Arthur McGowan
There ARE NO RULES for what is allowed in the public square

You haven't been to a college campus lately (at least not since the mid-1980s), have you?

Mark

11 posted on 12/06/2008 3:36:34 AM PST by MarkL
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To: neverdem
oogedy-boogedy

Sounds a lot like ooga booga.

From her column:

In the several days since I first used the term in a column describing the Republican party’s “religious” problem, oogedy-boogedy seems to have entered the bloxicon. (New word invented right here, meaning: the blogosphere’s lexicon.) Google produces more than 26,000 references.

Despite its sudden popularity, oogedy-boogedy is nonetheless causing some consternation and confusion. What does it mean and whence does it come? In the Dec. 15 issue of National Review, Ramesh Ponnuru writes that he doesn’t know what oogedy-boogedy means, “but I gather it’s bad.”...

First, to the origins. “Oogedy-boogedy” was bequeathed to me several years ago by my dear, departed friend, political cartoonist Doug Marlette. We were doubtless talking about our shared Southern heritage, about which one does not speak long without mentioning religion.

And, you betcha, oogedy-boogedy.

Sounds horribly racist to me.

The Urban Dictionary has two references:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ooga%20booga%20booga

1. Ooga Booga Booga
A sad but surprisingly affective phrase often used by Eustace to scare the crap out of Courage in the animated cartoon, Courage the Cowardly Dog. When scaring someone using this phrase, be sure to wear a mask larger than your body.

Eustace: Hey ya stupid dog, look what I got for ya'...
Courage: Aru?
*turns around and puts on giant scary mask*
Eustace: OOGA BOOGA BOOGA!!!!
Courage: AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

2. ooga booga booga
2nd most commonly used scare phrase. The first is Boo! Person walks around the corner and out of no where a man pops up and says "Ooga booga booga!"

To me, it sounds like she's trying to connect religious beliefs to witch doctors using 20th century xenophobic hokum.

Ooga Booga also got a smile out of some DUmmies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4450484

(remember the chant from "I can't fight this feeling"?)

12 posted on 12/06/2008 5:28:13 AM PST by weegee (Sec. of State Clinton. What kind of change is it to keep the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton Oligarchy?)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
and an F on economic conservatism.

No way is/was she an "F". She extols the virtues of spending cuts, she supports free trade, and she want voters to keep more of their own money. Far from an 'F"!

13 posted on 12/06/2008 7:00:22 AM PST by LowCountryJoe (Do class-warfare and disdain of laissez-faire have their places in today's GOP?)
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To: neverdem; AmericanGirlRising

Is there a reason why National Review is still carrying Kathleen Parker? I agree that she’s the next Arianna Huffington. The warning signs with Huffington were when she did the “Strange Bedfellows” segment with Al Frankin on Politically Incorrect and I’m getting the same sort of vibe here.


14 posted on 12/06/2008 7:44:45 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Just please don’t click on links to Parker articles.


15 posted on 12/06/2008 8:29:24 AM PST by Mamzelle (Boycott Peggy Swoonin')
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To: Question_Assumptions
re: Is there a reason why National Review is still carrying Kathleen Parker?)))

At best, I have found her utterly unremarkable. Now I actively campaign for FR to not provide her with any hits. It's not like your going to miss a single witty word.

Like most of our conservative pundits, she is probably connected through the ancient "Partisan Review" nexus. They have gotten to decide for too many years who gets to sit in pundit seats.

The internet gives us Malkin, Coulter and writers who have some juice an spirit to them.

16 posted on 12/06/2008 8:49:32 AM PST by Mamzelle (Boycott Peggy Swoonin')
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To: neverdem
I hadn’t realized religion and reason were mutually exclusive.

It's good the writer has realized the error. Christianity is to exist in a reverse osmosis chamber surrounded by culture and society - none of the Christianity is to ever escape into public, but the other way is just fine. I also find it interesting that the talk stops at the idea of God. Isn't it closer to the truth to say the Republicans are concerned with Christ and that His teachings should not impact public policy? After all, nearly everyone says they believe in God - even liberals. If they GOP has a 'God problem' it is because of Christ.
17 posted on 12/06/2008 8:53:17 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: Question_Assumptions

Go here and pay special attention to the comments from ‘Ace.’ He’s the owner of this blog and an insider.

http://minx.cc/?post=279262


18 posted on 12/06/2008 10:42:22 AM PST by AmericanGirlRising (The cow is in the ditch. We know how it got there. Now help me get it out!)
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To: neverdem
But reason, not religion, should inform our public debates.

By gummies! Kathleen Parker, estrogen airhead, is RIGHT!

Reason should inform our public debates!

That's why many Obama voters are confident that Sarah Palin was a good VP pick by Obama, and that the Republicans' deathgrip control of Congress was finally shattered only a month ago.

No, I don't know who Barney Frank is...

19 posted on 12/06/2008 12:11:17 PM PST by an amused spectator (I am Joe, too - I'm talkin' to you, VBM: The Volkischer Beobachter Media)
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To: AmericanGirlRising
'we already have a Maureen Dowd minus the talent. We call her "Maureen Dowd."'

LOL!

20 posted on 12/06/2008 12:13:32 PM PST by an amused spectator (I am Joe, too - I'm talkin' to you, VBM: The Volkischer Beobachter Media)
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To: MarkL

No rules whose legitimacy I acknowledge.


21 posted on 12/06/2008 4:37:21 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Eric Blair 2084
She is an A+ in in social conservatism, incomplete on foreign policy conservatism and an F on economic conservatism.

How does Palin earn an F in economic conservatism? She cut spending and even sold off the governor's luxury jetliner to reduce costs. She is one of the biggest champions in the country of using our own energy resources.

22 posted on 12/06/2008 5:08:30 PM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: AmericanGirlRising
Kathleen Parker is the latest Arianna Huffington

And, another David Brock.

23 posted on 12/06/2008 5:09:51 PM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: AmericanGirlRising
Parker hated Palin because her husband thought she was hot.

And, because Sarah is younger and better looking than she is.

24 posted on 12/06/2008 5:10:35 PM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: neverdem

“I’m the Oogedy Boogedy Man!”

25 posted on 12/06/2008 5:23:48 PM PST by RichInOC (Obama/Biden '08: "We Are Not Ruled By Murderers, But Only--By Their Friends."--Rudyard Kipling)
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To: Eric Blair 2084; LowCountryJoe; Ol' Sparky
If social conservatives don’t understand why there is antipathy towards her, just realize that there are 3 wings to the conservative movement. She is an A+ in in social conservatism, incomplete on foreign policy conservatism and an F on economic conservatism.

I'm coming to believe that she isn't all she's cracked up to be in fiscal terms. Based on the following, I probably won't even support Palin in the 2012 primary:

According to the Anchorage Daily News Sarah (I can be compassionate with other people's money too) Palin is proposing "$5 million in new spending on areas like Head Start, obesity prevention, a test program of half-day preschool, and expanded Denali KidCare insurance." The Alaskan governor, who has apparently been influenced by her association with the ABC (Anything But Conservative) John McCain states that "That means more working families will have health coverage." And of course an expanded nanny state to watch over their pre-school kids and to keep those obviously ignorant working families from eating too much. By the way, if you think that maybe she plans on cutting other areas of the Alaskan budget to pay for this spending increase of more than $7 for every person in the state of Alaska, think again. According to the Daily News "Palin will release the rest of her proposed state budget next week and said not to expect any significant cuts."

Link


Many on Free Republic and elsewhere are ready to anoint Palin the new leader of the conservative movement and our candidate in 2012. Count me out. She has a very long way to go and needs to start leading by example.

Hate to say it but I'm starting to suspect she's just a prettier Mike Huckabee.
26 posted on 12/06/2008 5:29:31 PM PST by MitchellC (RINO? GTHO.)
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To: MitchellC

It is very possible that Palin talks out of both sides of her mouth. As for 2012, the few politicians, at this moment, that I would get excited about are Mark Sanford, Jeff Flake, and Jim DeMint.


27 posted on 12/06/2008 8:26:14 PM PST by LowCountryJoe (Do class-warfare and disdain of laissez-faire have their places in today's GOP?)
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To: neverdem
Parker claims that “the cause” — implying she has a common one with conservatives — “is not helped when someone of the stature of Rick Warren interviews the leading presidential candidates in his church, questioning them about their faith.” But many who watched the Saddleback forum thought that it was far better than the Commission-sponsored debates, because Warren asked questions that tried to differentiate the candidates on who they were, not on their economic growth-plans. How are we worse off when Rick Warren asks questions that reflect the moral and religious beliefs of a majority of Americans, while leaving the nuts and bolts to Lehrer and Brokaw?

Coffin is dead on. Moreover, Parker (perhaps because all the "conservatives" she meets are at cocktail parties in the NYC-DC corridor) missed completely how those interviews made it clear that McCain was a statesman and Obama a mere politician, and an overrated one at that, i.e., answering "above my paygrade" to a question any fool would know was coming.

28 posted on 12/08/2008 9:17:45 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Eric Blair 2084; yongin
Yes.

Heck no!

I am a hardcore Evangelical Christian (I've taught Sunday school at a Pentecostal church) socon and I had already discarded Huckabee weeks before he won in Iowa.

If you want to say "Evangelicals who weren't paying attention to the guy's rhetoric or record should be criticized," have at it, but those of us who pay attention and do the work of supporting the party on the other 364 days beside election day did not back this guy, and we rejected him based on economics and personal freedom.

29 posted on 12/08/2008 9:22:41 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: yongin
Given the dislike of Huckabee among economic conservatives, are folks like David Frum and Kathleen Parker justified in bashing Evanglicals?

Considering the "top tier" candidates at the time, all of whom were pro-choice or choice-leaning, how do you blame the Evangelicals for raising up one to represent their primary concerns?

It is ludicrous to expect the Christians to give an inch on their values, every bit as much as it is ludicrous to ask the FiCons to give up theirs to vote for Huckabee.

Would that they had lifted up Hunter, but would that anyone had lifted up Hunter, after all. Had anyone one so, there would have been unanimity. And in that lies the truth, if one wants to lay blame.

Whoever lifted up a candidate that the other factions could not support is every bit as guilty as any other who did the same. Reagan Conservatism expects us to support each other. Asking any one faction to compromise dramatically is failure for us all. It is the candidate most likely to attract all the factions that is most likely to win.

30 posted on 12/08/2008 9:39:55 AM PST by roamer_1 (Proud 1%er... Reagan Conservatism is the only way forward.)
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To: roamer_1
Reagan Conservatism expects us to support each other. Asking any one faction to compromise dramatically is failure for us all. It is the candidate most likely to attract all the factions that is most likely to win.

Bingo. The stool has three legs. People who spend their time mocking one of the three legs are the enemy.

31 posted on 12/08/2008 9:45:12 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Bingo. The stool has three legs. People who spend their time mocking one of the three legs are the enemy.

Exactly right- And that goes all the way around. I am not defending SoCons particularly here.

We have to get away from this mentality that says we must all compromise to win. We must all surely *not* compromise to win. That is Reagan.

32 posted on 12/08/2008 9:50:40 AM PST by roamer_1 (Proud 1%er... Reagan Conservatism is the only way forward.)
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To: yongin

NO! i am a social conservative and can’t stand the smarmy, selfaggrandizing huckabee. Bashing evangelicals,over the dislike of one of them,is nonsensical.


33 posted on 12/08/2008 9:54:31 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: roamer_1

Big thumbs up from me!

Nobody should be sawing away the legs of the stool. Our problem is that the party has become identified in the eyes of the most reachable voters with things that none of the three conservative sub-groups believe in: Corruption, runaway spending and being Democrat-lite.


34 posted on 12/08/2008 10:00:33 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: xsmommy; yongin

Huckabee showed us all we needed to know at his “danger to my soul” press conference in Iowa. And I was NOT even remotely a Romney supporter at that time.


35 posted on 12/08/2008 10:04:29 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Mr. Silverback

the only thing that bothers me more than the smarmy huckabee, is the assumption thatn as a social conservative, i MUST be a supporter of his!


36 posted on 12/08/2008 10:09:59 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: xsmommy

Agree 100%.


37 posted on 12/08/2008 10:22:55 AM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Mr. Silverback; yongin

I’ll vouch for Mr. Silverback.


38 posted on 12/08/2008 8:22:23 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: MitchellC

Much like Obama, I think she is a clever and skilled politician. She says what she has to say to get elected.

This election cycle, the sheeple wanted to hear “You betcha we’ll get those greedy Wall St. folks, tobacco and oil companies”. It was in vogue.

When Socialism fails....again....in 4 years her pitch will be different.


39 posted on 12/08/2008 8:26:25 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Merci, mon ami.


40 posted on 12/08/2008 8:28:48 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

We’ll see.

I’m certainly not looking for any more RINOs (quite the contrary, I’m on a RINO hunt) but I think the sad thing is that even if our worst fears about her are realized, she’d still be a better pick than almost any of the morons in the Senate, and certainly will look like Reagan compared to Obama. With the exception of Jindal and Barbour, our governor pool is looking suspect at the moment, too.

That said, I’m very optimistic about her.


41 posted on 12/08/2008 8:31:44 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: Mamzelle
Just please don’t click on links to Parker articles.

Unfortunately, she is right there every morning in the liberal Star Ledger while I am eating my bagel and coffee in the Dunkin Donuts parking lot on the way to work.

42 posted on 12/08/2008 8:34:15 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Ah, but not clicking on her stuff on the Net affects her readership #’s, if you’re talking paper news. It’s going to be about hits, more and more. She’s also in my local paper, which is in much better shape than the NJ one.


43 posted on 12/08/2008 8:45:41 PM PST by Mamzelle (Boycott Peggy Swoonin')
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To: Mr. Silverback

Really, you don’t think ton much of sanford?


44 posted on 12/08/2008 9:09:54 PM PST by MitchellC (RINO? GTHO.)
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To: MitchellC

Forgot him. Thanks for reminding me.


45 posted on 12/08/2008 10:49:54 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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