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The Big Three's real union problem - (Let's ruin foreign manufacturers in the South too)
LATimes ^ | 12/6/08 | Jonathan Cutler

Posted on 12/08/2008 10:26:37 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32

(SNIP)

It is not too late to save the Big Three. But the solution is not to tear down the historic and heroic gains won by prior generations of UAW workers. If there is hope long term -- for the unionized Big Three companies and for the UAW -- it rests in dealing with the unfinished business of the 1980s: unionizing the unorganized transplants.

(SNIP)

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
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Just wait for the "Freedom of Choice Act"..that'll fix 'em..
1 posted on 12/08/2008 10:26:41 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

There are a few factories that have not yet relocated to China. Lets get’em.


2 posted on 12/08/2008 10:29:26 AM PST by marron
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

The person who wrote this article strikes me as either:

a) a useless, conniving, free-loading, Socilaist union official, OR

b) a moron.


3 posted on 12/08/2008 10:30:23 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Way to go, LA Times. You’re bankrupt, cannot make a buck to save your liberal lives...and your best suggestion is for the unions to complete their bankrupting of all auto production in the US.

Keep it up. There’s a reason that journalism is for bottom feeders.


4 posted on 12/08/2008 10:30:35 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Unlike “The Big 3”, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, KIA and Hyundai can all pack up and go home and take those jobs to people who’ll appreciate them...............


5 posted on 12/08/2008 10:31:05 AM PST by Red Badger (Never has a man risen so far, so fast and is expected to do so much, for so many, with so little...)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Umm, the Freedom of Choice Act is the abortion thing. You mean the Employee Free Choice Act.


6 posted on 12/08/2008 10:31:14 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: WayneS

I think you can infer b from a.


7 posted on 12/08/2008 10:31:26 AM PST by pgkdan
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To: WayneS
Jonathan Cutler is associate professor of sociology at Wesleyan University. He is the author of "Labor's Time: Shorter Hours, the UAW, and the Struggle for American Unionism."
8 posted on 12/08/2008 10:31:36 AM PST by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: WayneS

C) ALL OF THE ABOVE..............


9 posted on 12/08/2008 10:31:47 AM PST by Red Badger (Never has a man risen so far, so fast and is expected to do so much, for so many, with so little...)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
As is now clear, when the UAW exposed the Big Three to insurmountable competitive disadvantages, it cut its own throat.

Yup, and unionizing the southern plants will force them to close and ALL cars will be imports.

10 posted on 12/08/2008 10:32:29 AM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
So, the solution to saving the auto industry is not to use companies that are doing better as a model to fix what's wrong with the failing companies, it's to make the “succeeding” companies use the failing companies’ models? Ooookay...
11 posted on 12/08/2008 10:32:29 AM PST by WinOne4TheGipper (Obama is for (leaving you with pocket) change.)
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To: 5thGenTexan

yup, sorry..my bad..


12 posted on 12/08/2008 10:32:29 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32 (A democrat will break your leg, then hand you a crutch and take credit for your being able to walk.)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

“And yet there is nothing inherently unsustainable about employing a high-priced, unionized workforce”

When I read that, I burst out laughing. This guy is a real idiot.


13 posted on 12/08/2008 10:33:51 AM PST by curiosity
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To: buccaneer81

Okay. So it’s (b), then...


14 posted on 12/08/2008 10:33:53 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: WayneS

There’s a difference?


15 posted on 12/08/2008 10:34:16 AM PST by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: 5thGenTexan

It’s hard to tell one piece of BS from the other isn’t it?


16 posted on 12/08/2008 10:35:20 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Oh, I see. If we destroy the nonunion manufacturers then that will somehow help the Unionized makers. Huh?


17 posted on 12/08/2008 10:35:37 AM PST by Taichi (Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse)
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To: WayneS

c: All of the above


18 posted on 12/08/2008 10:36:12 AM PST by sticker
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

The priority for the right is to get a multitude of new communicators - people with charisma, good speaking skill, and common sense thinking - and get them out on television on on the web everywhere. We do not need to worry about who is running in 2112. We just need to fill the airwaves with a coherent alternative to this leftism. It has been notably absent for 10 years, since Newt and the gang left the stage.

This issue is a prime example of winning people back to our side. Do we really want a solution the leads to higher costs, less efficient companies, and more jobs going to Mexico and China? That is the result of these policies.


19 posted on 12/08/2008 10:37:17 AM PST by ilgipper
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To: Red Badger

Must learn to read all replies, before replying.

Great minds think alike


20 posted on 12/08/2008 10:37:40 AM PST by sticker
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To: curiosity

Well, the real problem with the Big 3 and the unions which have hogtied them is that not only do they pay well while they are actually working (which I don’t mind) but they also give workers overly generous pension plans as well. That’s why the Big 3 are so close to bankruptcy. They are paying for more retirement benefits than employee benefits. That’s what has to stop.


21 posted on 12/08/2008 10:38:05 AM PST by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one Bae Yong Joon drama at a time!)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
If the UAW really is to blame at all, then, it is because of the union's utter failure to unionize any of the transplants. What has the UAW been doing all these years? Isn't it the responsibility of any good union to protect union employers from competitive labor disadvantages by organizing wall to wall, throughout the industry?

Jonathan Cutler is your typical reporter, writes his story without doing any research or fact checking. If he looked back to the past, the unions pressed hard to unionize the foreign car makers. The Japanese balked and call unions protection schemes for inferior workers. They said if they had to unionize the plants there would not be any plants. When it came down to the local politicians getting a new plant and many jobs in there district they told the unions to move along. It looks like Mr. Gettlefinger and his boys have to take a page from the Obama play book. It's time for CHANGE we can believe in. So long UAW, it's been fun.

22 posted on 12/08/2008 10:38:49 AM PST by Harley (Life is Tough, But It's a Lot Tougher When You're a Liberal.)
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To: curiosity
“And yet there is nothing inherently unsustainable about employing a high-priced, unionized workforce” "When I read that, I burst out laughing. This guy is a real idiot."

That's true if you are a monopoly.

23 posted on 12/08/2008 10:38:51 AM PST by Mr_Peter
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

http://www.temple.edu/tempress/titles/1614_reg.html

just your everyday joe writing a opinion piece to the LA times. This is the type of tripe these guys get paid to write to put on book shelves and editorials. Not saying he did but makes me wonder.


24 posted on 12/08/2008 10:39:01 AM PST by Walkingfeather
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To: ilgipper

We do not need to worry about who is running in 2112

Well, I certainly won’t but maybe my grandkids grandkids will..however, 2012 is a different story..:)


25 posted on 12/08/2008 10:39:29 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32 (A democrat will break your leg, then hand you a crutch and take credit for your being able to walk.)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

No one should prosper, instead all should suffer equally.


26 posted on 12/08/2008 10:40:53 AM PST by CSM (I’m jubilant! Now that the Dems are completely in charge, we can FINALLY blame THEM for everything!)
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To: massgopguy

Yeah, especailly when they all have Orwellian doublespeak feel-good names.


27 posted on 12/08/2008 10:40:57 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: Mr_Peter
That's true if you are a monopoly.

Correct. Unfortunately, the big 3 aren't a monopoly (more correctly, and oligopoly) any more, and won't ever be again.

28 posted on 12/08/2008 10:41:38 AM PST by curiosity
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Jonathan Cutler

What does a "Professor of Sociology" know about building vehicles or anything else for that matter?!

29 posted on 12/08/2008 10:42:03 AM PST by kcvl
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To: Da Coyote

Those who can’t write, write newz.


30 posted on 12/08/2008 10:43:21 AM PST by omega4179 (Pardon Ramos and Compean !! Hello Jorge...Paging Jorge Arbusta.)
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To: Red Badger

“Unlike “The Big 3”, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, KIA and Hyundai can all pack up and go home and take those jobs to people who’ll appreciate them”

And that’s exactly what they will do. Also unlike the “Big 3” these transplants know the value of a profitable business plan, and that leaves no room for UAW occupied plants.


31 posted on 12/08/2008 10:43:41 AM PST by henkster (It's time for a conservative "long march through the institutions.")
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To: 5thGenTexan

It’s “For the children”.


32 posted on 12/08/2008 10:44:41 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: ilgipper

“We do not need to worry about who is running in 2112.”

I know I’m not worried about who is running then, at least not until the messiah is inaugerated and implements a health plan that greatly increases my longevity.


33 posted on 12/08/2008 10:45:10 AM PST by CSM (I’m jubilant! Now that the Dems are completely in charge, we can FINALLY blame THEM for everything!)
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To: WinOne4TheGipper

No, destroying the non-union plants is not going to help. But, a trade policy that allows our cars to compete on an even playing field in Japan might help.


34 posted on 12/08/2008 10:45:13 AM PST by Binghamton_native
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To: GeorgiaDawg32; All; NormsRevenge; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; tubebender; Marine_Uncle; ...
Related FR Thread:

Shelby warns of filibuster of auto bailout

35 posted on 12/08/2008 10:45:21 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: ilgipper
We do not need to worry about who is running in 2112.

The Priests of the Temples of Syrinx? :^)

36 posted on 12/08/2008 10:46:21 AM PST by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: Harley
Jonathan Cutler is your typical reporter, writes his story without doing any research or fact checking.

Look at his byline. The sad thing is he's a sociology professor at a relatively prestigeous liberal arts college and a proported expert in unions.

37 posted on 12/08/2008 10:46:22 AM PST by curiosity
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To: WayneS

Can we vote for “a” and “b”?


38 posted on 12/08/2008 10:47:23 AM PST by We Dare Defend Our Rights
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To: kcvl

Damn good question....likely he is anti-capitalism...


39 posted on 12/08/2008 10:48:20 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Bingo. I KNEW that was coming. I expect Congress will be pushing legislation that will make “right to work” states a thing of the past. That will pretty much guarantee there won’t be a manufacturing job left in the entire US.


40 posted on 12/08/2008 10:48:35 AM PST by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Requiescat In Pace)
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To: jazusamo

Well, you CAN be (b) without being (a); I’m not so sure you can be (a) without being (b), though...


41 posted on 12/08/2008 10:49:52 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

I hope everyone here realizes that is democrats goal and if UAW goes bankrupt it will not help the cause.


42 posted on 12/08/2008 10:52:40 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama says: "I only need to buy 40% of voters with handouts and trick another 11%")
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To: Mr_Peter
That's true if you are a monopoly.

...which is what the UAW effectively becomes if they manage to "organize" ALL the auto plants in the country.

43 posted on 12/08/2008 10:52:51 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: Tamar1973
Well, the real problem with the Big 3 and the unions which have hogtied them is that not only do they pay well while they are actually working (which I don’t mind) but they also give workers overly generous pension plans as well

The pensions are actually not a problem right now since they are overfunded. In the past, GM contributed to the pension fund far more money than was necassary, so today the fund more than enough money to pay the current retirees without reducing GM's cash flow.

It's the retiree healthcare costs that are killing them. Also hurting them very badly are idiotic work rules that reduce productivity, as well as job security provisions such as the so-called "jobs bank." Currently GM is paying around 8,000 workers who don't work.

44 posted on 12/08/2008 10:53:22 AM PST by curiosity
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To: WayneS

Bump to that.


45 posted on 12/08/2008 10:55:08 AM PST by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
Say hello to more unions, more wage controls, more price controls, tariffs, more labor regulations, blah blah blah - just to make things "more fair". Some folks just don't want any cars - or anything else for that matter - built in America. But we will all be equally starving, miserable, impoverished, and underemployed - utopia at last!
46 posted on 12/08/2008 10:55:22 AM PST by M203M4 (GOP problem: failed to deliver on promises. Solution: promise instead what was already delivered?!?!)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
Here is a promo on a book by Jonathan Cutler, an associate professor of sociology at Wesleyan University:

Labor's Time (Shorter Hours, the UAW, and the Struggle for American Unionism)

He is a total fawning apologist for the UAW.

47 posted on 12/08/2008 10:56:38 AM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Harley

The Big three should have made an all out effort to break the UAW. They should have been placing non-exempt salaried employees in many of the new production plants that they built. Leave the hourly pay scales behind.

Bit by bit, develop a new model line, open a new non union plant with tax concessions and close the union plant. Sell the property and move on.


48 posted on 12/08/2008 10:59:39 AM PST by Ouderkirk (Never underestimate the ability of a liberal to deny reality and attempt to change the rules to do s)
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To: 5thGenTexan; GeorgiaDawg32

well, the result is similar: abort the child, abort the business.


49 posted on 12/08/2008 11:00:41 AM PST by NonValueAdded (once you get to really know people, there are always better reasons than [race] for despising them.)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32
"As is now clear, when the UAW exposed the Big Three to insurmountable competitive disadvantages, it cut its own throat."

The unions are the "liberals" and the companies are the "rich".

The unions have no idea what it takes to market the products and make a profit, they - like the liberal children trhey are - just think that the money just grows on trees and that they (UAW) are "entitled" to it for screwing a wheel on a hub.

Unions are an extortion racket, and turn ordinarily ambitious and independent thinkers in to mediocre sheet for the monthly slaughter (dues payment).

Unions have far outlived their usefulness and should be outlawed.
50 posted on 12/08/2008 11:02:56 AM PST by FrankR (“Turtle up”, economically, for the duration of the 0bamanation.)
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